Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

thecomedian

awec wrote: »

Lord is taking the piss out of the entire charade.

She is taking the piss out of FG and FF for eulogizing Varadkar, and she is taking the piss out of SF for their swing and a miss, which ended up in them getting battered.

It was all fart and no **** in the end. The smoking gun never emerged, as more details were released, the dafter the story became and the less credibility it had. Basic facts incorrect, claims of Varadkar meeting the whistleblower when Varadkar was in Brussels. I don't really understand how they could possibly have got that one wrong, the only explanation is there was not even a basic investigation of allegations to figure out the truth from the fiction.

It looked more and more like sheer opportunism, people who don't like Varadkar (and there are many) thinking they had their chance to bring him down, but ultimately blowing their load too early over something so wishy washy.

I think in hindsight, SF would not go for the no confidence vote again, at least not yet, because they'd see that Village Magazine wasn't going to deliver anything they needed.

This post sums it up perfectly.

seamus

Bannasidhe wrote: »

For the first time in the history of the State we have a genuine govt/opposition situation rather than the rota system we previously 'enjoyed'.

That's been the case since June though IMO. The left hasn't solidified around this particular issue; it was the unholy matrimony of FF & FG that gave the left space to coalesce.

Previously the existence of either FF or FG in opposition created a painful triad for the left; oppose the government and you will have to side with someone you hate. As a result any opposition was merely a temporary agreement to take shots at the governing party, that would dissolve as soon as the next issue came up.

I'm not having a dig at people's affiliations; but there's nobody here saying, "I was a big supporter of FG, but after this, never again". Anyone expecting a big slump in public opinion for either FG or Varadkar is going to be very surprised, IMHO.

FrancieBrady

thecomedian wrote: »

This post sums it up perfectly.

How could self admitted wrongdoing lack in credibility? That was the reason for the VoNC, the only person to mention the Village articles last night was Varadkar in a vain attempt to limit the damage to himself.

This was new territory for FG. The electorate have not seen it before, the abuse of power exposed in this way.


There wasn't a single thing said about SF that hasn't been heard multiple times before and the electorate have said they are sick of that being brought up.

awec

seamus wrote: »

That's been the case since June though IMO. The left hasn't solidified around this particular issue; it was the unholy matrimony of FF & FG that gave the left space to coalesce.

Previously the existence of either FF or FG in opposition created a painful triad for the left; oppose the government and you will have to side with someone you hate. As a result any opposition was merely a temporary agreement to take shots at the governing party, that would dissolve as soon as the next issue came up.

I'm not having a dig at people's affiliations; but there's nobody here saying, "I was a big supporter of FG, but after this, never again". Anyone expecting a big slump in public opinion for either FG or Varadkar is going to be very surprised, IMHO.

The fact that it was SF leading the charge on this will help Varadkar, that's the reality of the situation and a reality of Irish politics.

There is little more frustrating in politics than the Shinners doing their holier-than-thou thing.

Cluedo Monopoly

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Nice to see Coveney referring to Leo been the only one in 2014 who came out and supported Maurice McCabe and kept the story going when it broke.

I've seen the SF posters here bringing up Maurice McCabe a few times.

I just heard that on the Claire Byrne show. Fair play to Coveney. I do like that Leo's defence of McCabe was repeated in the Dail. It was an important point in McCabe's fight for truth and justice. We'd still have a very corrupt Garda force if it wasn't for him and the people that supported him. I respect Leo for taking a stand there but I will say that Enda and a few other FG ministers let McCabe down badly by turning their back on him. FF's John McGuinness also deserves a lot of praise with respect to McCabe.

I am not a SF supporter so I don't understand your 2nd line. Usual simplistic waffle I suppose?

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Lord would describe herself as an 'opinion' writer not a journalist. I think it is even filed under 'opinion' in the newspaper. A quick google will show you she will lambast FG on any given day too.

That the FG boys and gals are holding an opinion piece up here as some sort of win is funny.

The term is "colour writer". It was the kind of thing popular in the late 19th century when radio, TV and the Internet didn't exist.

The news cycle has become a 24 hour one and with more access to information, people are more likely to make up their own minds rather than having them made up for them. The Leo The Leak thing has been a disaster for the FFG. The sales of daily newspapers has been declining even before Covid. Most people do not buy a daily newspaper but get their news from the Internet, TV and radio. Her columns are probably well read among political hacks and activists but like much of the Irish Times, they is irrelevant to a public more concerned with the real world rather than the Dail.

The Leo The Leak thing is destroying FG's selling point of not being FF. In the past, Varadkar's activity would have been expected more of FF than FG. This has shown that FG learned nothing from the Denis O'Brien/mobile phone licence mess. The only winner in this situation is SF. No amount of PR will remove the admission by Varadkar on the Dail record. With many people having lost their jobs due to Covid, there may well be a shift to a Left/Right axis for Irish politics and the Right side (FF/FG) is a bit crowded.

Regards...jmcc

Nobotty

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I see Leo will always be 'The Leak'.

That FF going to bat for FG has further blurred the lines between the two parties making one of them irrelevant - all that lies between them now is old tribalism. Speaking of which - you can be sure the FF backbench knives are being sharpened.
The Irish Left managed to unite. Inconceivable!
For the first time in the history of the State we have a genuine govt/opposition situation rather than the rota system we previously 'enjoyed'.

That's what I see.
But without the need to have a dig at other posters political affiliations.

I think,there's going to be no prosecution so that faint hope is gone and was never there IMO
Gardai have to investigate but through gritted teeth,I'm of the view that the 2 things I've said since the start about that will hold and that is the boss of government can over rule their ministers and simply put the document had already left the cabinet and whilst it was a restricted document, I don't see how any law prevents the then Taoiseach from bringing someone into the documents loop outside cabinet as so many others already had it,it was no longer Cabinet exclusive or subject to any more cabinet decisions
In fact cabinet had already moved on from it
Thats what they're going to say if the gardai ask
Objectively thats the status
I also think it is the case that the same people on both sides here are arguing their side all the time
Same as in the Dáil yesterday
The Irish left btw didn't unite
One section used part of their speech (AoR) to bash SF
The others just went through the motions of doing what opposition needs to do
Anyhow, I'm done with this topic unless something new crops up

FrancieBrady

jmcc wrote: »

The term is "colour writer". It was the kind of thing popular in the late 19th century when radio, TV and the Internet didn't exist.

The news cycle has become a 24 hour one and with more access to information, people are more likely to make up their own minds rather than having them made up for them. The Leo The Leak thing has been a disaster for the FFG. The sales of daily newspapers has been declining even before Covid. Most people do not buy a daily newspaper but get their news from the Internet, TV and radio. Her columns are probably well read among political hacks and activists but like much of the Irish Times, they is irrelevant to a public more concerned with the real world rather than the Dail.

The Leo The Leak thing is destroying FG's selling point of not being FF. In the past, Varadkar's activity would have been expected more of FF than FG. This has shown that FG learned nothing from the Denis O'Brien/mobile phone licence mess. The only winner in this situation is SF. No amount of PR will remove the admission by Varadkar on the Dail record. With many people having lost their jobs due to Covid, there may well be a shift to a Left/Right axis for Irish politics and the Right side (FF/FG) is a bit crowded.

Regards...jmcc

As I said earlier, the VoNC has fused their backbones together in the public mind.

To all intents and purposes the merger is complete. That is going to hurt in any forthcoming election and has undone all Leo's sinister politicking to try and distance FG from FF.

He has been at it from the start of government.

jmcc

smurgen wrote: »

There's two things now certain after this saga. FFG are the one entity and Leo Varadkar is a leaker of commercially sensitive documents.

The most devastating slogan for SF now is "Vote FF, get FG". Leo The Leak must have genuine FFers tearing their hair out as it is generally the smaller party (even though FF has more seats) that gets it in the neck after a GE following a coalition.

Regards...jmcc

thecomedian

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How could self admitted wrongdoing lack in credibility? That was the reason for the VoNC, the only person to mention the Village articles last night was Varadkar in a vain attempt to limit the damage to himself.

This was new territory for FG. The electorate have not seen it before, the abuse of power exposed in this way.


There wasn't a single thing said about SF that hasn't been heard multiple times before and the electorate have said they are sick of that being brought up.

Look I understand you defend SF on here as well as a few others and the same goes for the FG posters but the whole thing ended up a mess for SF. That Village website became a joke, the original story was decent and correct but SF should have kept it or held back for a later time.
The later stories were bull****, which SF got sucked into.

If Leo never personally gained for this and didn’t undermine the original contract he was never going to lose. There was nothing criminally done. He could end up with the nickname Leo the Leak but I think this will be quickly forgotten about.

Floppybits

jmcc wrote: »

No amount of PR will remove the admission by Varadkar on the Dail record. With many people having lost their jobs due to Covid, there may well be a shift to a Left/Right axis for Irish politics and the Right side (FF/FG) is a bit crowded.

Regards...jmcc

See here is the problem that I and many other voters like me have, I would love to vote other that FF or FG, I wont go into the reasons as to why I don't want to vote for them as they are long and most right minded people know them but I don't want to vote for SF because they are too left for me and the like of PBP and don't really offer much, so that leaves Labour, Social Democrats and the Greens. Labour are not offering anything and with Alan Kelly as its leader doesn't make them attractive, the Greens I have never voted for they only interest is adding more of a tax burden onto us and then there is the Social Democrats have some good people but they don't seem to be growing and if they go into government with either of FG or SF then they will destroyed.

Pretty depressing really for those of us who are floating voters.

McMurphy

glasso wrote: »

Well tbh Lord is such a bitter auld cnut that she doesn't really make any point at all these days beyond vitriolic cynicism.

basically in all senses of the word, a completely pointless writer.

I'd completely agree, it's the FFGers here trying to hold up the first paragraph of obvious sarcasm as some kind of ringing endorsement for the "Canonisation of Saint Leo the Great".

It was a big **woosh** imo

is_that_so

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Anyone I've spoken to on this didn't see it as 'a minor misstep', they see it as the wilful leaking of a 'Confidential/not for publication' document to a buddy, at best a breach of confidentiality, at worst well we'll have to see if the Gardai come up with anything, nobody I've spoken to believes the fairytale altruistic motive of advancing the IMO agreement. We obviously speak with a different set of people.

Anyone I've spoken to apologises for not having anything new to report about their lives! TBH both this and the now fading Woulfe story don't have the ability to annoy people as much as a video of people "breaking" COVID rules. Even if/when Woulfe goes it'll just be a news story and this one is yet another SF vote of no-confidence malarkey.

joemurt

Is Varadkar still a member of the IMO?

And the article in the Irish examiner today - 10 million euro overpaid to a Larry Goodman owned office during covid - was that signed off by Fine Gael and Varadkar when he was Taoiseach or by Martin, anyone know?

Nobotty

McMurphy wrote: »

Behind a paywall, but is this first paragraph not parody



Anyone any of the rest of the article, because so far as I'm reading that's a piss take, and a piss take at Leo's expense.

"Saint Leo the Great"

"Coalition cheerleaders"

"Canonised"

I can't help get the feeling you may be missing a very obvious piece of sarcasm Maryanne.

The first Leo the Great died in 460 and was the first pope to be called “the Great”. Greatness doesn’t do justice to the current one who, having conceded last week that he might be infallible, was lauded to a height by his adoring colleagues.

As nearly two hours of increasingly cloying tributes threatened to rot every tooth within a mile radius of Dublin’s Convention Centre, former Fine Gael minister Joe McHugh had us reaching for the sick bucket with his misty eyed descriptions of a “solutions-focused” Tánaiste who “at all times was conscious of the enormous responsibility placed on his very young shoulders.”

But if the lionising of Leo was hard to take, the lack of any fresh argument amid the overweening smug self-righteousness radiating from the other side was even worse.

Opposition anger
Whatever about Opposition anger at Varadkar’s leaking of a confidential document on a pay deal struck with the Irish Medical Organisation to an acquaintance representing a rival doctors’ group, the whys and wherefores of the episode had been thrashed out in the Dáil a week earlier.

The Tánaiste’s explanations stretched credulity in parts, but he apologised on the floor of the Dáil and then took questions from the Opposition. The Taoiseach and a slightly nauseous Fianna Fáil excused his indiscretion and the Coalition, with its Dáil voting majority, rowed in behind Varadkar. Unless something else emerged to undermine Leo’s story, this controversy was nowhere

The perpetually affronted tried to topple the Tánaiste again on Tuesday. Different arena, same tired rhetoric. It was their second attempt in a week. The omens were bad. Sinn Féin decided to go after Leo Varadkar on November 10th, the Feast Day of St Leo the Great. If we didn’t know this before the Dáil vote of confidence in the Fine Gael leader we knew it afterwards because Leo’s Coalition cheerleaders canonised him on the spot during the debate.

The first Leo the Great died in 460 and was the first pope to be called “the Great”. Greatness doesn’t do justice to the current one who, having conceded last week that he might be infallible, was lauded to a height by his adoring colleagues.

As nearly two hours of increasingly cloying tributes threatened to rot every tooth within a mile radius of Dublin’s Convention Centre, former Fine Gael minister Joe McHugh had us reaching for the sick bucket with his misty eyed descriptions of a “solutions-focused” Tánaiste who “at all times was conscious of the enormous responsibility placed on his very young shoulders.”

But if the lionising of Leo was hard to take, the lack of any fresh argument amid the overweening smug self-righteousness radiating from the other side was even worse.

Opposition anger
Whatever about Opposition anger at Varadkar’s leaking of a confidential document on a pay deal struck with the Irish Medical Organisation to an acquaintance representing a rival doctors’ group, the whys and wherefores of the episode had been thrashed out in the Dáil a week earlier.

The Tánaiste’s explanations stretched credulity in parts, but he apologised on the floor of the Dáil and then took questions from the Opposition. The Taoiseach and a slightly nauseous Fianna Fáil excused his indiscretion and the Coalition, with its Dáil voting majority, rowed in behind Varadkar. Unless something else emerged to undermine Leo’s story, this controversy was going nowhere.


But Sinn Féin wanted to keep it going, serving up the reheated and rehashed remains of the controversy with a no confidence motion in the Tánaiste. Not the best idea, when the only weapon in their arsenal was the familiar recitation of phrases beginning with “the politics of . . .” ending with any combination of “cosy club” “cosy club culture” “old boys network” “golden circle” “insider culture” and “Brian Hayes”. While, crucially, “calling time” on all of this.

Bury the Shinners
If Sinn Féin came to bury the Tánaiste, Varadkar’s Government colleagues responded by going all out to bury the Shinners.

The Fine Gael and Fianna Fail TDs were vicious. Sinn Féin was battered from pillar to post by a wave of Government deputies who grabbed the party by its wrinkled cliches until they popped. One after another, they seized on the meaningless buzzwords and soundbites and threw them back at their political pushers.

The Taoiseach led the onslaught signalling that while Fianna Fáil may not enjoy having to defend Varadkar, the party will not be prodded into collapsing the Government by a glaringly opportunistic try-on from Mary Lou McDonald and her strategists.

The Government tabled a counter motion and won it. There was never any doubt.

As the session came to a close, Independent TD for Louth Peter Fitzpatrick declared the whole exercise had been a waste of time. As a confidence motion required all members of the Dáil to take part in a full vote, Tuesday’s proceedings had to move from Leinster House to the Convention Centre in accordance with Covid-19 distancing rules at a cost of €25,000.

McMurphy

Thanks nobotty, I was correct, anyone thinking that was some kind of glorious ringing endorsement of the omnishambles last night didn't read anymore than the paragraph that preceded the paywall block, and missed the obvious pisstake contained within that.

Bubbaclaus

joemurt wrote: »

Is Varadkar still a member of the IMO?

And the article in the Irish examiner today - 10 million euro overpaid to a Larry Goodman owned office during covid - was that signed off by Fine Gael and Varadkar when he was Taoiseach or by Martin, anyone know?

Between this and the person questioning Varadkars retweeting of Danny Boy, the desperate attempts at trying to find anything else to link him to is gas. It was described pretty well last night in the Convention Centre "throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks"

StackSteevens

jmcc wrote: »

The most devastating slogan for SF now is "Vote FF, get FG". Leo The Leak must have genuine FFers tearing their hair out as it is generally the smaller party (even though FF has more seats) that gets it in the neck after a GE following a coalition.

Regards...jmcc

Not really. In the next election, for the first time in my life, I'm going to give my highest preferences to FF/FG rather than putting one at the top and the other just ahead of SF at the sump end of my ballot. It seems reasonable to assume that many others will (quietly) be doing the same.

jmcc

StackSteevens wrote: »

Not really. In the next election, for the first time in my life, I'm going to give my highest preferences to FF/FG rather than putting one at the top and the other just ahead of SF at the sump end of my ballot. It seems reasonable to assume that many others will (quietly) be doing the same.

Long time listener, first time caller, eh?

Regards...jmcc

awec

McMurphy wrote: »

Thanks nobotty, I was correct, anyone thinking that was some kind of glorious ringing endorsement of the omnishambles last night didn't read anymore than the paragraph that preceded the paywall block, and missed the obvious pisstake contained within that.

Nobody thinks that, I think the point is sailing over your head.

The whole thing was a shambles, that was her point and the point made by those referencing it on the thread.

JohnnyFlash

McMurphy wrote: »

Thanks nobotty, I was correct, anyone thinking that was some kind of glorious ringing endorsement of the omnishambles last night didn't read anymore than the paragraph that preceded the paywall block, and missed the obvious pisstake contained within that.

Have a subscription for the Times, Murph. Read the lot last night. She takes the piss out of all of them, and the whole fiasco. Spared no one. Think the only person misunderstanding here is yourself tbh.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Thanks nobotty, I was correct, anyone thinking that was some kind of glorious ringing endorsement of the omnishambles last night didn't read anymore than the paragraph that preceded the paywall block, and missed the obvious pisstake contained within that.

I feel your pain. Let it go. The village idiots lost. Let’s put it down to cabin fever brought on by the lockdown.

Bubbaclaus

This "Leo the Leak" nickname has all gone a bit Trumpist populism for my liking. Irish equivalent of "Crooked Hillary" and "Sleepy Joe".

I Am The Law

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This "Leo the Leak" nickname has all gone a bit Trumpist populism for my liking. Irish equivalent of "Crooked Hillary" and "Sleepy Joe".

Except that like a Snail, if you look in a certain light you can see the trail left behind.

jmcc

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This "Leo the Leak" nickname has all gone a bit Trumpist populism for my liking. Irish equivalent of "Crooked Hillary" and "Sleepy Joe".

And there's the FGHQ talking point! There has been an attempt by FG propagandists to equate SF with Trump. It is fascinating to see this play out on Social Media.

Regards...jmcc

Bannasidhe

seamus wrote: »

I'm not having a dig at people's affiliations; but there's nobody here saying, "I was a big supporter of FG, but after this, never again". Anyone expecting a big slump in public opinion for either FG or Varadkar is going to be very surprised, IMHO.

I think perhaps you need to read the thread a bit more carefully before making statements about 'people here'.

On phone so can't search but if memory serves there has been at least 2 posters here who stated they were FG voters and will no be in the future.

You made some crack about people being either SF or PBP - when quite a few people have identified themselves as Soc Dem voters.

Smacruairi

I being one of those who was the archetypal govt voter, ff to Labour to FG and now I'm lost in the crowd looking at independants.

I received a response from one FG (or his assistant) this morning to my email outlining my dismay at cronyism coming to the fore yet again in politics. It consisted off 2 lines, one thanking me for my email before then warnin me that using language like "legally spurious" was a dangerous charge to levy. End email. Defo no preference down the card so. I'll await the others to respond but I won't hold my breath that they do.

But at least one responded.

gadarnol

The whole episode has seriously damaged Varadkar. By extension it has damaged those who were forced to and reluctantly did support him. My takeaways:
Leaking of confidential documents is far less likely now.
Varadkar's double standards re Hogan and himself very clear.
Varadkar's double standards re civil servant leaking confidential document and himself very clear.
Matter is still not closed until formal complaint made to gardai withdrawn or pursued to a conclusion by AGS.
Matter is still not closed until Varadkar acts upon or abandons his statement re defamation.
Greens are firmly in mudguard mode, utterly dominated in govt and a huge but predictable disappointment.
FF is in turmoil internally (rinse and repeat).
The entire range of opposition parties have changed the political process from ineffectual FF to a properly functioning democracy.
Soc Dems were particularly effective in eviscerating Varadkar's statement and the situation.
FG are falling into tactics of far right and right wing groups from Trump to Tories (accusing others of what they are actually doing, lying about who is responsible for the cost, seeing the extra cost as a trump card against the Dail doing its job properly) and will go further down this road.
Only parts of MSM really questioning govt and opposition statements (No RTE that's not you).
Miriam Lord is Mean Girls of the Dail Press. And about as relevant.

And next we have the FG appointee Woulfe causing a constitutional crisis. Lockdown 2 is flying by.

weldoninhio

What made me laugh, was crony after crony standing up to whinge about SF wasting "valuable" Dail time on the VoNC, when there are lots of other, more important stuff to be discussing.

If the cronies hadn't bothered with their longwinded, useless statements, the entire thing would have taken less than half the time it did. Self awareness not a trait of our current government.

RandomViewer

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No gloating lads. A former Taoiseach and current tánaiste caught slipping documents to friends in an underhand way is nothing to celebrate nó matter how it came about.
A major embarrassment for him and very humbling I'd say to have to face a no confidence motion.
Hope he learns from it.

Bish, I know you are a big FG fan and the fact that you are uneasy with the FG party condoning wrongdoing shows that whatever about the elected members the voters are not comfortable with what happened