Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

RandomViewer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Explain to us all how politicians can influence the outcome of Government contracts and tenders.

Jesus wept!,

JohnnyFlash

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Well I think you start by giving the Confidential/not for circulation documents to your buddies, and then you take it from there

Not really explaining how a politician can somehow get involved in the whole EU OJ, civil service tendering, office of the comptroller and auditor general process and use if for personal or financial gain.



You'd know all about the huge amount of oversight and overhead involved in State contracts if you've ever tendered for one.



Anyways, probably going off topic here. Do we have any idea who gave the nod in SF to proceed with this? Spectacular error of judgement. I doubt it was Pearse as I've heard he wouldn't exactly be the sharpest knife in the block. Could have been that Ted Howell fella that SF politicians love emailing looking for advice on things like the Cash for Ash scheme.

Cluedo Monopoly

The patient might have survived the operation but he is left with a big scar. This will resurface in GE.Next, mark my words
That's politics baby.

Fine Gael’s New Politics tackles all of these weaknesses head-on and will restore people’s
trust in the political process by delivering real, tangible change. The Irish people are rightly
outraged at the way in which their country has been misgoverned.

Oh dear

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Ok, so you thought the Shinners tabled the motion on the back of the village announcing they had more info this week, I pointed out that was rubbish and explained, and you then ignored that and instead moved on to Leo claiming the document he admitted to leaking saying it wasn't confidential (not like Leo has skin in the game) that's not pivoting?



You don't think the opposition just hold someone accountable for leaking information to a rival organisation in a government deal, ok so fair enough.

I like how people working in your office would be held to a higher standard than that of Taoiseach though, so we're all cool.

It's the same all over politics Mc.
Don't be naieve and think you're voting for saints.
Don't think you're voting for people who aren't prepared to bend the rules to suit themselves when it suits them.
Loads of stuff can happen legally that's still not best practice, dodgy even by times.
Look at SFs use of the border for their own ends etc etc as well as sharing documents in an underhand way and it's a cesspit of a world.
If you want saints look to some religious group perhaps, if you're looking for them in politics you'll die in despair.

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

:pac:

Fairly pertinent point some people here have difficulties comprehending it would seem. But remember, it's not confidential if Leo says it's not.

And if it is and he accepts that and leaks it to a pal anyway, that's okay too.

Poor Enda must be spinning in his pension pot thinking FG would tackle the 'old boys network', but as with Leo's favourite place to lift speeches 'Mean Girls' always a younger set of 'plastics' coming up.

RandomViewer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not really explaining how a politician can somehow get involved in the whole EU OJ, civil service tendering, office of the comptroller and auditor general process and use if for personal or financial gain.



You'd know all about the huge amount of oversight and overhead involved in State contracts if you've ever tendered for one.



Anyways, probably going off topic here. Do we have any idea who gave the nod in SF to proceed with this? Spectacular error of judgement. I doubt it was Pearse as I've heard he wouldn't exactly be the sharpest knife in the block. Could have been that Ted Howell fella that SF politicians love emailing looking for advice on things like the Cash for Ash scheme.

Look !Santa grazing the Reindeers on Mary Lou's lawn, Tendering process is now questionable, there were already questions about NAMA tendering so no matter how much you spin the harm is done,

jmcc

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Explain to us all how politicians can influence the outcome of Government contracts and tenders.

The second mobile phone licence. An FG minister (Lowry) was crucial in that.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's the same all over politics Mc.
Don't be naieve and think you're voting for saints.
Don't think you're voting for people who aren't prepared to bend the rules to suit themselves when it suits them.
Loads of stuff can happen legally that's still not best practice, dodgy even by times.
Look at SFs use of the border for their own ends etc etc as well as sharing documents in an underhand way and it's a cesspit of a world.
If you want saints look to some religious group perhaps, if you're looking for them in politics you'll die in despair.

Back to the 'they all do it' defence. Bit of a rollercoaster day for you Bish.

RandomViewer

jmcc wrote: »

The second mobile phone licence. An FG minister (Lowry) was crucial in that.

Regards...jmcc

Or the same guy being sold a utilities company with money from a state owned bank a few months before a major water contract was awarded

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Back to the 'they all do it' defence. Bit of a rollercoaster day for you Bish.

Am I wrong Francie?

JohnnyFlash

jmcc wrote: »

The second mobile phone licence. An FG minister (Lowry) was crucial in that.

Regards...jmcc

That was a quarter of a century ago, dude. A different country for all intents and purposes.



Have you any more recent examples?

gadarnol

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The patient might have survived the operation but he is left with a big scar. This will resurface in GE.Next, mark my words
That's politics baby.

FG don’t want to accept the damage done and seem very bullish about a predictable victory in the VoC. The political reality is that the govt is damaged and this is a govt that has staggered from one shambles to another. Next up Woulfe. Or is it the law courts for the LC cases? Next week is Brexit endgame.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Am I wrong Francie?

Well how are we going to find out if the messengers get shot the way you have been doing Bish?

If you are caught you should go. That should be the precedent. Not stand idly by as it is ignored because a power swap want to cling to power.

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If people are caught doing wrong,they should be held accountable.....not have government parties,gaslight.country into thinking its acceptable


Its blaggarding,gombeenism like this,lead to bertie ahearn,maple circle,galway tent etc and ultimately finacial bankrupcy,follows ethical.bankrupcy as theres no reprecussions for it

There's the ballot box, that's the place for it.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That was a quarter of a century ago, dude. A different country for all intents and purposes.



Have you any more recent examples?

So 25 years is the cut off? Noted

This gets back to Varadkar; be you a communications minister getting free lunches off a bidder or a finance minister acting inappropriately regarding Project Eagle, (still under investigation outiside of this state. Still waiting on Siteserv findings mind) best practise is there to protect the tax payer and politicians from putting themselves in bother or under suspicion. That's giving the benefit of the doubt of course.

FrancieBrady

gadarnol wrote: »

FG don’t want to accept the damage done and seem very bullish about a predictable victory in the VoC. The political reality is that the govt is damaged and this is a govt that has staggered from one shambles to another. Next up Woulfe. Or is it the law courts for the LC cases? Next week is Brexit endgame.

Thankfully our part in Brexit is substantially finished. Imagine what the British would have made of this a few months ago when confidentiality was key.

The damage here can only be guessed at, at this stage.

RandomViewer

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That was a quarter of a century ago, dude. A different country for all intents and purposes.



Have you any more recent examples?

A lot of the same names are still in the Dail, the main man selling his vote only yesterday

JohnnyFlash

An email came out this morning from Leo to FG members. Didn't even mention the waste of time that was yesterday's fiasco. The main man has moved on. All good in Camp FG. Thanks for the concern though!

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well how are we going to find out if the messengers get shot the way you have been doing Bish?

If you are caught you should go. That should be the precedent. Not stand idly by as it is ignored because a power swap want to cling to power.

That's not the way it works and naieve thinking.
There was a democratic vote and it was, easily won by the govt.
There was no apparent gain for anyone when Leo shared the document as the negotiations had been conclude and agreed in principle and was publicly declared.
The rival nagp weren't even in the loop for any deal other than acceptance of the one outlined in the document.
Probably makes Leo's explanation credible, even though sharing it was wrong.

Cute Hoor

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That was a quarter of a century ago, dude. A different country for all intents and purposes.



Have you any more recent examples?

Swords and Balbriggan, added by the Minister of Health and TD for Dublin North James Reilly to the list of 30 locations identified by HSE for Primary Care Centres. Led to the resignation of his Junior Minister and the formation of the Social Democrats

IAMAMORON

The whole episode has been a PR disaster for the Sinn Féin media relations team. It really indicates how desperate they were as a party to jump down the neck of any government member without judging the entire picture and how it was going to play out for them. They spent far to much time salivating over a hyped article which has proved futile. This looked far too blatant and the waving of mobile phones in the middle of Dáil Eireann really cheapened proceedings. Trial by Twitter should have no place during a Dáil debate, this was a new low in Irish politics.

They keep on dropping the ball. Voters will eventually begin to rationalise that as a party they continue to make poor decisions.

In the meantime the entire fiasco has galvanised the government and exposed Sinn Féin for being deliberately disruptive. Wasting money on renting the convention centre with a lame attempt to develop negative sentiment around the government. It has massively backfired.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing ever changes,bertie got his power through the ballot box too



Its all.a closed circle of friendships etc,golfgate,this farce of letting.varadkar off with wrongdoing,sealing mother and baby homes to coverup.families involvement in them.....garda being suspended for corruption,an supreme court judge openly laughing off facing sanction.......

Whole thing is rotten to the fcuking core,and i cant see how it can ever realistically be changed,as parties of power (ff/fg in particular) are too intertwined to ever turn on or discipline each other

Garda being suspended for corruption

What do you seem to expect , a Fcuking promotion and a bonus.

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not really explaining how a politician can somehow get involved in the whole EU OJ, civil service tendering, office of the comptroller and auditor general process and use if for personal or financial gain.



You'd know all about the huge amount of oversight and overhead involved in State contracts if you've ever tendered for one.

I have to tender for contracts in my job all the time, the industry I'm in has a limited enough number in the trade, all competing for the same client's.

Now let's say there's 3 of us that operate in the greater Leinster area with large hubs/warehousing facilities there. We'd usually be given a list of specific products and services by our clients for their specific needs (lucky enough they all tend to be broadly the same)

The way it works is - I'll draw up an excel sheet with pricing, ETA of product and or service being on site/job completion, and credit terms.

If I had some fella on the inside handing me over my competitors excel sheet with pricing etc, I think we can both agree I'd have one ****ing hell of an advantage over the others. Even a 1% reduction in margin might be enough to swing the deal in my favour.

All's needed is the basic info and you can use it as your foundation.

Anyways, probably going off topic here. Do we have any idea who gave the nod in SF to proceed with this? Spectacular error of judgement. I doubt it was Pearse as I've heard he wouldn't exactly be the sharpest knife in the block. Could have been that Ted Howell fella that SF politicians love emailing looking for advice on things like the Cash for Ash scheme.

Yes you're going off topic, you might even say you're deflecting John.

SouthWesterly

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The whole episode has been a PR disaster for the Sinn Féin media relations team. It really indicates how desperate they were as a party to jump down the neck of any government member without judging the entire picture and how it was going to play out for them. They spent far to much time salivating over a hyped article which has proved futile. This looked far too blatant and the waving of mobile phones in the middle of Dáil Eireann really cheapened proceedings. Trial by Twitter should have no place during a Dáil debate, this was a new low in Irish politics.

They keep on dropping the ball. Voters will eventually begin to rationalise that as a party they continue to make poor decisions.

In the meantime the entire fiasco has galvanised the government and exposed Sinn Féin for being deliberately disruptive. Wasting money on renting the convention centre with a lame attempt to develop negative sentiment around the government. It has massively backfired.

And now we have the government getting back at them by having seanad vote that they return the money, answer for how it won't be used down here and. Change the law about donations to all Ireland parties z

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seems to me,varadkar got a pat on the back off his party for same


I expect to.see no gaurds corrupt and sacking of those caught........deont matter fg style emselces as the law and order party,so sweet FA will.happen to.the corrupt gaurds as per usual....nothing ever changes in this dump.of a country

You get up in the morning, you do the best you can for you and your family and hope the govt you have does the best it can. If youre not happy don't vote for them.
But you've got to be prepared to do your own work, not wait for promises of things being handed to you.
I'm 40 years working, never idle, moved afield when I felt I had to, never depended on the govt anywhere other than have conditions I could get work.
Attitude is everything, dump of a country is just a feeble excuse.

Cute Hoor

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Have you any more recent examples?

Hugh McElvaney - "What's in it for the darkie", "Bring plenty of sterling", "The more that's in the bag the keener I will be"

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

That's not the way it works and naieve thinking.
There was a democratic vote and it was, easily won by the govt.
There was no apparent gain for anyone when Leo shared the document as the negotiations had been conclude and agreed in principle and was publicly declared.
The rival nagp weren't even in the loop for any deal other than acceptance of the one outlined in the document.
Probably makes Leo's explanation credible, even though sharing it was wrong.

We don't know if anyone gained. That would require a look at personal finances and an investigation to see if favours were done or recieved.

There is no requirement to demonstrate a material gain in the law either.

Yes there was a vote and it has been accepted, but the damage to Leo and brand FG is done. You'll see the payoff for that in an election. Which IMO Leo won't be leading FG into if they have any sense.

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What else would you describe whata going on here only a dump...lad was caught 100% in the wrong,and government backed him to the hilt

Gaurds are corrupt and we have a supreme court judge laughing at the country....nothing ever fcuking changes here,nothing ever will....

But whooo senior hurling,completly pathethic excuses for agreeing with fcuk all ethics and stand around pretend shocked as ffg run country off a cliff again,who will they blame this time as no lenman brothers about anymore...sh1thole of a country,sh1thole of a parliment to let this go on

Move around it and deal with what's in front of you Blaaz.
Do you know, what your neighbours or work colleagues are at all the time?
I look out to do the best I can and that's the best I can do.
I'm no super hero and don't think I know any.
Humans are scumbags, hero's and ordinary people, that's not just Ireland, that's everywhere.
Utopia doesn't exist.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We don't know if anyone gained. That would require a look at personal finances and an investigation to see if favours were done or recieved.

There is no requirement to demonstrate a material gain in the law either.

Yes there was a vote and it has been accepted, but the damage to Leo and brand FG is done. You'll see the payoff for that in an election. Which IMO Leo won't be leading FG into if they have any sense.

First point is just sour grapes.

No argument from me on that last point

zerosugarbuzz

Leo must be raging that this still has so much traction. He seems very unpopular on twitter overall. So much for topping the polls in popularity, very much seems he who pays the piper names the tune.