Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

jmcc

Melanchthon wrote: »

It's FF I don't understand in this, don't they see that this behaviour is just going to mean SF voters won't put FF voters anywhere on their preferences now and some FF voters are going to switch allegiances as they see FF going to the wall to support a FG leader that constantly causes their party trouble

Mehole Martin, as he is sometimes called, is a closet FGer rather than an FFer. His political instincts (Poppy wearing/anti-GFA) are pure FG rather than FF. He has led FF to an abysmal rating in the opinion polls (the next ones may see FF dropping through the 10% barrier).

The Capitulation and Surrender agreement (confidence and supply) damaged FF in that it was effectively in government with FG but without the benefits of office. SF is now what FF one was: a left of centre party with a strongly youthful voting demographic.With a proper FF leader, FF could easily have won the last GE but because Martin had become more FG than FG itself, he failed to exploit FG's electoral vulnerabilty over the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration fiasco. SF had no such qualms and ended up winning the same number of seats as FF while beating FG into third place.

Regards...jmcc

Brendan Bendar

jmcc wrote: »

Mehole Martin, as he is sometimes called, is a closet FGer rather than an FFer. His political instincts (Poppy wearing/anti-GFA) are pure FG rather than FF. He has led FF to an abysmal rating in the opinion polls (the next ones may see FF dropping through the 10% barrier).

The Capitulation and Surrender agreement (confidence and supply) damaged FF in that it was effectively in government with FG but without the benefits of office. SF is now what FF one was: a left of centre party with a strongly youthful voting demographic.With a proper FF leader, FF could easily have won the last GE but because Martin had become more FG than FG itself, he failed to exploit FG's electoral vulnerabilty over the FG Black and Tans/RIC commemoration fiasco. SF had no such qualms and ended up winning the same number of seats as FF while beating FG into third place.

Regards...jmcc

The man knew that our country was in bits at the time of the confidence and supply and the last thing it needed was a GE.

The Shinners of course couldn’t a damn, all they wanted is unrest, subversion,the whole fabric of the country which has served us so well turned over.

Then when the whole place collapsed they would disappear into the mists and leave honest people like Miceál Martin to try and sort it out.

So please, pretty please, spare us that wall of crud.

jmcc

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone left clinging onto FF isnt to.leave,they're at 11% polling now......chances are they trying to hamg onto FG coattails now for transfers etc and be a lame duck parthner in any coalition going forward with them ala labour party/greens

Much as people would like to portray FF as being around 11%, it may be an artifact of the polling methodology. When Face to Face polling is used (Behaviour and Attitudes for the Sunday Times and Ipsos/MBRI for the Irish Times), FF's rating goes back up towards 20%. This is because the telephone/online polling methodology used by other pollsters favours parties with a younger voting demographic. FF's support is heavily concentrated in demographics that do not use the Internet as much as younger demographics. These voters do get picked up with F2F polling but are often missed in telephone/online polling. Opinion polling, when the political commentary is included, is often just Astrology with a side dish of Numerology to give it some credibility.

If you look a the polls through the first lockdown, all the pollsters were using telephone/online polling and the %s for the parties were largely the same including FF's low rating. Once F2F polling resumed in August/September, those polls differed from the polls that continued to use telephone/online polling.

Regards...jmcc

RandomViewer

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The man knew that our country was in bits at the time of the confidence and supply and the last thing it needed was a GE.

The Shinners of course couldn’t a damn, all they wanted is unrest, subversion,the whole fabric of the country which has served us so well turned over.

Then when the whole place collapsed they would disappear into the mists and leave honest people like Miceál Martin to try and sort it out.

So please, pretty please, spare us that wall of crud.

Are you afraid of elections, Anto?

FrancieBrady

RandomViewer wrote: »

Are you afraid of elections, Anto?

I think the gist of it is - Michael Martin has done FG some service.
And so he should, FG rehabilitated his party.

Make the power swap grwat again, so to speak.

jmcc

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

honest people like Miceál Martin

Eh? The same Mehole Martin who had a political donation just resting in his then girlfriend and later wife's bank account? The same chap who claimed that FF would never go into coalition with FG? et cetera, et cetera.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

jmcc wrote: »

Eh? The same Mehole Martin who had a political donation just resting in his then girlfriend and later wife's bank account? The same chap who claimed that FF would never go into coalition with FG? et cetera, et cetera.

Regards...jmcc

All done for 'the good of the country'

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the gist of it is - Michael Martin has done FG some service.
And so he should, FG rehabilitated his party.

Make the power swap grwat again, so to speak.

The most devastating thing that the Leo The Leak story and the Golfgate has achieved is creating the idea that in the minds of the electorate that there's no difference between FF and FG now. It is all just FFG. Martin continually refers to Leo The Leak as "taoiseach". That's how cravenly FG the "leader" of FF has become. FF used to be a decent party once. It really needs to get rid of the closet FG element. Breaking the 10% barrier in the opinion polls may encourage a leadership challenge.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All done for 'the good of the country'

Or, to use Dessie O'Malley's phrase "in the national interest". The problem with the national interest is that FF would try to pocket it and FG would want to give it to Denis O'Brien.

Regards...jmcc

Cute Hoor

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The man knew that our country was in bits at the time of the confidence and supply and the last thing it needed was a GE.

The Shinners of course couldn’t a damn, all they wanted is unrest, subversion,the whole fabric of the country which has served us so well turned over.

Then when the whole place collapsed they would disappear into the mists and leave honest people like Miceál Martin to try and sort it out.

So please, pretty please, spare us that wall of crud.

Trying to parse this.
I think essentially what you are saying is that Sinn Fein just want to get one go at power, they would then do everything in their power to destroy the country for that period in power, and then the party would fold up and disappear.

Strange indeed!!!!

Brendan Bendar

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Trying to parse this.
I think essentially what you are saying is that Sinn Fein just want to get one go at power, they would then do everything in their power to destroy the country for that period in power, and then the party would fold up and disappear.

Strange indeed!!!!

Close enough, they would try of course, but such is the paucity of their policies that inevitably they would collapse.

The bit at the end about disappear was wrong though, they wouldn’t dissapear.

They would revert to type , sitting on the sidelines , roaring and
shouting and blaming everyone else as usual, and drawing the big wedge for doing nothing.

Cute Hoor

Ye're gas, pure gas!!

Floppybits

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Ye're gas, pure gas!!

Deluded more like.

Cute Hoor

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

such is the paucity of their policies

I probably shouldn't but just for the craic, which of their policies are paucity and why

jmcc

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Close enough, they would try of course, but such is the paucity of their policies that inevitably they would collapse.

The bit at the end about disappear was wrong though, they wouldn’t dissapear.

They would revert to type , sitting on the sidelines , roaring and
shouting and blaming everyone else as usual, and drawing the big wedge for doing nothing.

So what you are saying is that the problem for Socialists like Sinn Fein is that they eventually run out of other people's money? Sounds a bit like FF and the property bubble bursting.

Regards...jmcc

RandomViewer

Saw the clip ofVaradker making a dig about a balaclava to Pearse Doherty, Pearse should have responded that its more comfortable than Varadkers gimp mask, missed opportunity !

Bishop of hope

jmcc wrote: »

So what you are saying is that the problem for Socialists like Sinn Fein is that they eventually run out of other people's money? Sounds a bit like FF and the property bubble bursting.

Regards...jmcc

You're very astute jmcc!
Regards.... Boh.

Suckit

jmcc wrote: »

So what you are saying is that the problem for Socialists like Sinn Fein is that they eventually run out of other people's money? Sounds a bit like FF and the property bubble bursting.

Regards...jmcc

I nearly coughed up my entire glass of water as I read that.

So it's FF and Sinn Fein that are likely to overspend other peoples money?

Unlike for example... FG?
They are of course very very good at spending other peoples money, only they don't seem to understand the concept of overspending, and would happily continue trying to spend other peoples money from an empty pot.

Jinglejangle69

Suckit wrote: »

I nearly coughed up my entire glass of water as I read that.

So it's FF and Sinn Fein that are likely to overspend other peoples money?

Unlike for example... FG?
They are of course very very good at spending other peoples money, only they don't seem to understand the concept of overspending, and would happily continue trying to spend other peoples money from an empty pot.

Rainy day fund.

Google it.

Yurt2

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Rainy day fund.

Google it.

The much vaunted "rainy day fund" was actually a FF policy initiative and a condition of the original confidence and supply deal. But I'm sure you knew that already.

And what's more, Paschal reneged on a promised top-up of 500m to the fund late last year and his commitment to it was criticized. Fiscal responsibility indeed.

Google it.

Bishop of hope

Suckit wrote: »

I nearly coughed up my entire glass of water as I read that.

So it's FF and Sinn Fein that are likely to overspend other peoples money?

Unlike for example... FG?
They are of course very very good at spending other peoples money, only they don't seem to understand the concept of overspending, and would happily continue trying to spend other peoples money from an empty pot.

I think you are talking about the wrong party there.
Jmcc put it fairly right. FG are a fiscally responsible party, FF and SF are populist party's that promise the sun moon and stars, but fiscal rules won't allow for the type of spending needed to allow for their policies to work.
In a coalition arrangement there are compromises made that offset that somewhat.
SF going forward may well end up in coalition with either FF or FG, so will be tempered somewhat in that arrangement if its FG.
But a SF leftist alliance or even with FF, might well be a dangerous combination for the country's economic future.
If you boom an economy that can help a generation by giving too much away, and easing access to credit is included in that, that fcuks up the economy again for the next couple of generations, what good is that?

Cute Hoor

Bishop of hope wrote: »

FG are a fiscally responsible party

I presume when you talk about fiscally responsible you are talking about stuff like this:

€2bn (and counting) flushed down the toilet on water meters which will never be used - ongoing annual charges probably well in excess of €1m (relegates the likes of evoting to the isthmian league)
€2bn (and counting) Childrens Hospital (at least we will have something to show for this hopefully?) that was budgeted for €500m (300% overrun), being built on the wrong site.
€5m - Strategic Communications Unit - Varadkar Spin/PR/makeup unit
€1.5bn and counting paid out in HAP payments (€503m 2014-18, €423m 2019, projected €503m 2020), paid to private landlords.
Cervical Check fiasco likely to cost €100m
Michelle Mulherin making thousands of euro worth of phone calls to her special friend in Kenya
€1m annual spend by Varadkar on special advisers
Dara Murphy claiming his full parliamentary and travel allowances of €4,300 a month for two years, despite spending most of that time in Brussels, €100k claimed in expenses
Varadkar personally signs up on support package for former Taoisigh that will cost the state €300k per annum, something that he will personally benefit from

ChikiChiki

Fiscally responsible and Fine Gael.

That is the biggest pile of nonsense I've read so far in 2020. They are absolutely awful in keeping control of the states budgets.

The track record is there for all to see. Such statements are false.

Jinglejangle69

Yurt! wrote: »

The much vaunted "rainy day fund" was actually a FF policy initiative and a condition of the original confidence and supply deal. But I'm sure you knew that already.

And what's more, Paschal reneged on a promised top-up of 500m to the fund late last year and his commitment to it was criticized. Fiscal responsibility indeed.

Google it.

Tell me again what Pearse thought of the rainy day fund seems you're so familiar with it?

And you leave out little snippets to suit your narrative.

Like how Pascal couldn't commit to that extra 500 million because the fear of a no deal Brexit is looming.

Only minor details to you of course.

Brendan Bendar

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Tell me again what Pearse thought of the rainy day fund seems you're so familiar with it?

And you leave out little snippets to suit your narrative.

Like how Pascal couldn't commit to that extra 500 million because the fear of a no deal Brexit is looming.

Only minor details to you of course.

JJ Everything like that is minor to those lads.

Tax those who ‘get up early’ shure, isnt that the answer.

jmcc

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I think you are talking about the wrong party there.
Jmcc put it fairly right. FG are a fiscally responsible party, FF and SF are populist party's that promise the sun moon and stars, but fiscal rules won't allow for the type of spending needed to allow for their policies to work.

Except that I didn't.

I did find the spectacle of Michael Noonan with his hodge-podge Masters in English and Economics being shown up as a dunce by SF over the Fiscal Space quite funny.

The sheer incompetence of FG over the Childrens hospital shows that FG's self-proclaimed reputation for fiscal responsibility does not survive contact with reality. Being a Libertarian of the Brethren of the Coast variety, my solution for dealing with such "fiscal responsibility" might not be to FG's taste but it would ensure that the people making those mistakes would not have the opportunity to do so again. The State would benefit from the Pay Per View reality TV rights as the marooned struggle to survive. I'm sure that turning these wastrels into revenue generating units would appeal to the FG sense of fiscal responsibility.

Regards...jmcc

NSAman

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Jmcc put it fairly right. FG are a fiscally responsible party, FF and SF are populist party's that promise

Jesus the FG spin machine must be paying overtime.

As some one above mentioned the severe waste of public monies, I won’t go into it again.

What FG and FF are showing in attacking SF, is their utter terror of a new way of doing things.

The cosy cartel of nudge nudge wink wink, I’ll scratch your back and you scratch mine politics, where friends get inside information which both of these parties exhibit, is at risk.

CarProblem

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Rainy day fund.

Ho much is said fund vs the 250bn national debt we're projected to have at the end of 2021?

Bishop of hope wrote: »

FG are a fiscally responsible party

Doesn't really check out

https://twitter.com/seamuscoffey/status/1257303920482717699?s=03

I must admit thought it was very fiscally conservative to (pre covid)

- massively increase public spending
- increase my marginal rate of tax to 52%
- remove more and more people from the tax net
- increase the dole by more than a person on the average industrial wage got (more than once)
- despite pensioners having the lowest rates of deprivation/poverty/at risk of poverty (accordng to the CSO) and the country facing a demographics timebomb increase the old age pension repeatedly

Nobotty

Spending during covid is like getting a hall pass from the wife
You can't compare it with pre covid

Cute Hoor

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Tax those who ‘get up early’ shure, isnt that the answer.

Who is proposing to tax those who ‘get up early’ (other than what they are currently being taxed) and what tax is that.