Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

This is madness what I am reading here, people actually questioning when a confidential document is actually confidential and then trying to compare it to a lunch menu. This is comical Ali stuff and I would ask those questioning it if say it was lets say a SF minister that did this would you be dogmatic in you defense of that minister or would you be looking for that minister to either step aside or to be sacked?

As for a confidential document, well if it says confidential on it and it hasn't been officially made public then it is confidential and should not be shared. I know that in my job if I got a document with Confidential written on it that I would not be sharing it my mate or anyone who is not suppose to see it and if I did pass on a confidential document to someone who wasn't suppose to have then the company would be in their right to sack me. Simple as that.

It is not as simple as that. In certain cases, you would be entitled to four years salary under unfair dismissals legislation if you are sacked for sharing a document.

How does a Taoiseach, a Minister, a government, a civil servant decide whether something is confidential or not, and on what legal basis? Until that is explained, it is impossible to know whether the document was confidential or not or even if the Taoiseach declassified it by sharing it and was entitled to do so.

It seems that the mob screaming for the Tanaiste's head in this instance doesn't have a clue about the basis on which it is screaming!!

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

How is it possible to know whether a document is confidential or not, until the legal basis of confidentiality has been made clear?

I think it is quite clear when a document is confidential and when it is not as I think any sane person can. If the document is marked confidential then it is confidential up till the point that it is released to the public by the person responsible for it. It is as simple as that. Despite the twisting and turning some are trying on here the fact of the matter is the that document was marked confidential and had not been officially released and therefore should not have been shared with anyone outside of those involved and definitely not with someone who was head of rival union and was not involved in the negotiations. Why is this so hard to understand?

Tpcl20

I'd love to know if Leonard the Leaky Taoisey-Táin said to Gardaí yesterday that he'd appreciate being able to rely on their discretion during this matter :pac: :cool:

IAMAMORON

Floppybits wrote: »

This is comical Ali stuff and I would ask those questioning it if say it was lets say a SF minister that did this would you be dogmatic in you defense of that minister or would you be looking for that minister to either step aside or to be sacked?
.

Fingers crossed things don't completely capitulate?

This country deserves better.

I can't see it ever happening to be honest. Small mercies and all.

Probably best to keep hypothetical or unlikely scenarios to a minimum.

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Fingers crossed things don't completely capitulate?

This country deserves better.

I can't see it ever happening to be honest. Small mercies and all.

Probably best to keep hypothetical or unlikely scenarios to a minimum.

Instead of deflecting, answer the question do you think an SF minister who leaked a confidential document similar to what Leo Varadkar has done would be get the same treatment from the media and those on here currently defending Leo Varadkars action?

IAMAMORON

Floppybits wrote: »

Instead of deflecting, answer the question do you think an SF minister who leaked a confidential document similar to what Leo Varadkar has done would be get the same treatment from the media and those on here currently defending Leo Varadkars action?

As I said, it is highly unlikely a SF member is going to get the opportunity to be in a position to do what ever you are insinuating.

Let's keep it real at least?

Brendan Bendar

Floppybits wrote: »

Instead of deflecting, answer the question do you think an SF minister who leaked a confidential document similar to what Leo Varadkar has done would be get the same treatment from the media and those on here currently defending Leo Varadkars action?

Hypothetical question, will not arise.

Cullinane publicly expressed support for a terrorist organisation, and hopes to get into Govt.

What happened to him?

Nothing.

And these are guys who expect the electorate to vote for them.

Go figure......

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

I think it is quite clear when a document is confidential and when it is not as I think any sane person can. If the document is marked confidential then it is confidential up till the point that it is released to the public by the person responsible for it. It is as simple as that. Despite the twisting and turning some are trying on here the fact of the matter is the that document was marked confidential and had not been officially released and therefore should not have been shared with anyone outside of those involved and definitely not with someone who was head of rival union and was not involved in the negotiations. Why is this so hard to understand?

CONFIDENTIAL

Grand so, make sure you don't spread around this post. I have marked it confidential.

McMurphy

You can bet your mortgage on this.

If Paul Murphy, Mary Lou, Clare Daly or some other boogeyman from under certain posters beds were being investigated by the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation, for leaking confidential documents to their pal involving a €210m contract, this site would be in meltdown by the same people here who are coming across - obtuse, pedantic, and to be quite frank about it, a bit unhinged.

The document was either confidential, or it wasn't confidential, it's like being pregnant, you either are or you aren't.

If it was confidential, then any sane and rational person would understand the need for the AGS to investigate, and if there's anything clear cut either way, either prosecute or don't.

If it wasn't confidential, Leo is an absolute bellend for apologising in the Dail.

Lest we forget.

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has apologised for “errors of judgment” after he released a confidential document negotiated with the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO) to the president of a rival GP group last year.

Black = White with some of the FG Zealots.

IAMAMORON

McMurphy wrote: »

The document was either confidential, or it wasn't confidential, it's like being pregnant, you either are or you aren't.

I agree, but not every pregnancy carries as much significance as another.

Like for example, some people develop phantom pregnancies were they believe they are pregnant and yet it is a complete delusion.

Confidential pregnancies... I have heard it all now.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Hypothetical question, will not arise.

Cullinane publicly expressed support for a terrorist organisation, and hopes to get into Govt.

What happened to him?

Nothing.

And these are guys who expect the electorate to vote for them.

Go figure......

Is this the FG way? You 'expect' people to vote for you?

You should feel honoured that people vote for you, not 'expectation' that they will. Have you revealed a long suspected arrogant 'entitlement' culture among the FG cohort Brendi?

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

CONFIDENTIAL

Grand so, make sure you don't spread around this post. I have marked it confidential.

Are you for real? Seriously you are using a public site like boards to compare it to a confidential government document. Now you are really starting to look like a complete idiot here with that sort of carry on.

First you were comparing a lunch menu to a confidential document and now you are comparing it to a public discussion board.

As I asked before are you WUM or TROLL or something because I can't believe any right thinking person would try compare an official government confidential document that had not been released to the public to a lunch menu or to public discussion site?

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

Are you for real? Seriously you are using a public site like boards to compare it to a confidential government document. Now you are really starting to look like a complete idiot here with that sort of carry on.

First you were comparing a lunch menu to a confidential document and now you are comparing it to a public discussion board.

As I asked before are you WUM or TROLL or something because I can't believe any right thinking person would try compare an official government confidential document that had not been released to the public to a lunch menu or to public discussion site?

Even varadkar admits it was a confidential document....it takes a special.sort of dim,to even entertain the notion/arguement that it wasnt

Cute Hoor

Deleted User wrote: »

it takes a special.sort of dim,to even entertain the notion/arguement that it wasnt

Fair point, and there are a few here willing to raise their hand on that front.

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I agree, but not every pregnancy carries as much significance as another.

Like for example, some people develop phantom pregnancies were they believe they are pregnant and yet it is a complete delusion.

Confidential pregnancies... I have heard it all now.

So in that case they're not pregnant. **Shrugs**

Which brings us back the documents Leo passed to zero Craic. They were either confidential, or they were not confidential, and if they weren't, wasn't Leo a bit of an eegit apologising for something he apparently didn't need to apologise for? **shrugs again**

Floppybits

Deleted User wrote: »

Even varadkar admits it was a confidential document....it takes a special.sort of dim,to even entertain the notion/arguement that it wasnt

I wouldn't say dim but I believe that the people on here trying to excuse the leaking of a confidential document are WUM's or Trolls. I mean comparing the leaking of a confidential government document to a lunch menu and then trying to say typing confidential on a post on public discussion thread is the same thing as a government confidential document. Such an idiotic thing to do trying defend this. I guess they probably realise there is no defense for what Varadkar has done and just cannot admit to it and are just blatantly throwing out any auld crap to defend him.

IAMAMORON

McMurphy wrote: »

So in that case they're not pregnant. **Shrugs**

Which brings us back the documents Leo passed to zero Craic. They were either confidential, or they were not confidential, and if they weren't, wasn't Leo a bit of an eegit apologising for something he apparently didn't need to apologise for? **shrugs again**

Thing is the entire matter is not relevant any more?

I mean everyone knows Leo is a leaky dude now. He apologised for his mistake and his party and the consensus of 2 other parties he is partnering in government agreed it was a non story and did not justify any further action.

Case closed, it is literally all done bar the shouting.

The cops will send a file to the AG and that will be that, they may not even send a file?

It is done and dusted, there is only one party stamping their heel in the floor like Rumpelstilskin. Scraping the barrel that has already been phucked down the street. It is over, no one cares any more.

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Thing is the entire matter is not relevant any more?

I mean everyone knows Leo is a leaky dude now. He apologised for his mistake and his party and the consensus of 2 other parties he is partnering in government agreed it was a non story and did not justify any further action.

Case closed, it is literally all done bar the shouting.

The cops will send a file to the AG and that will be that, they may not even send a file?

It is done and dusted, there is only one party stamping their heel in the floor like Rumpelstilskin. Scraping the barrel that has already been phucked down the street. It is over, no one cares any more.

Can you name the party please?

I Am The Law

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Thing is the entire matter is not relevant any more?

I mean everyone knows Leo is a leaky dude now. He apologised for his mistake and his party and the consensus of 2 other parties he is partnering in government agreed it was a non story and did not justify any further action.

Case closed, it is literally all done bar the shouting.

The cops will send a file to the AG and that will be that, they may not even send a file?

It is done and dusted, there is only one party stamping their heel in the floor like Rumpelstilskin. Scraping the barrel that has already been phucked down the street. It is over, no one cares any more.

You're spent your entire day on boards trying to deflect everyone away from this "Closed Case", you must be sick of lockdown.

Cute Hoor

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The cops will send a file to the AG

I was going to ask why 'the cops' would send a file to the AG but I won't!

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I mean everyone knows Leo is a leaky dude now. He apologised for his mistake and his party and the consensus of 2 other parties he is partnering in government agreed it was a non story and did not justify any further action.

Sorry I think you might have misread my question, or are confusing me with another poster, so I'll try again.

Was the documents Leo sent to Zero Craic confidential, or were they not confidential.

If they weren't confidential, don't you think he's an awful eegit for apologising on record in the Dail for something he apparently had no need to apologise for?

It's a simple question.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Sorry I think you might have misread my question, or are confusing me with another poster, so I'll try again.

Was the documents Leo sent to Zero Craic confidential, or were they not confidential.

If they weren't confidential, don't you think he's an awful eegit for apologising on record in the Dail for something he apparently had no need to apologise for?

It's a simple question.

This is the point. You have people looking to 'exonerate' Leo if the Gardai don't proceed.
The FACT is Leo implicated/confessed himself. He may be exonerated from breaking a law, but he won't ever be exonerated for wrongdoing. That stays with him.

IAMAMORON

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I was going to ask why 'the cops' would send a file to the AG but I won't!

Well make up your mind at least?

IAMAMORON

McMurphy wrote: »

Sorry I think you might have misread my question, or are confusing me with another poster, so I'll try again.

Was the documents Leo sent to Zero Craic confidential, or were they not confidential.

If they weren't confidential, don't you think he's an awful eegit for apologising on record in the Dail for something he apparently had no need to apologise for?

It's a simple question.

I mean it is passed the condescending remarks at this point?

It doesn't matter whether it was confidential or not. I frankly don't care any more. Neither does anyone else?

The only people obsessing over the matter are opposition TD's desperate to whip up a scandal. The fact remains that the issue is now over. The Gards are just following due process, heads are not going to roll, with respect to the chagrin of the Sinn Féin front bench.

I think the most important lesson the Sinn Fein front bench will have learnt is that people see through them, especially when they are attempting to manufacture a crisis over nothing. They will also have learnt that the timing of the whistleblower's revelations were simply appalling. If I remember correctly the entire episode was poorly executed on the same week of the US presidential elections? What a shambles? Furthermore, Sinn Féin have made the classic mistake of raising this matter now? Why? In 10 months time there will be a handover of power to Leo, why could they not have waited until then before throwing the mud? At least they would get the opportunity to cause some potential division within the coalition, or at best put pressure on Leo in his new position......tactless stuff.

weldoninhio

blanch152 wrote: »

On what legal basis did the government consider it confidential? If the government did indeed consider it confidential.

https://www.irisoifigiuil.ie/welcome/

"Iris Oifigiúil is the official means used by the Government for announcing appointments to public offices and publishing proclamations, statutory instruments, appointment of receivers to companies, etc."

Maybe you could link me to the relevant issue of Iris Oifigiul where the government published its proclamation that this document was confidential?

The former Taoiseach stated that if was a confidential document when he sent it to his mate.

Cute Hoor

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Well make up your mind at least?

Believe me I have!!

Floppybits

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I mean it is passed the condescending remarks at this point?

It doesn't matter whether it was confidential or not. I frankly don't care any more. Neither does anyone else?

The only people obsessing over the matter are opposition TD's desperate to whip up a scandal. The fact remains that the issue is now over. The Gards are just following due process, heads are not going to roll, with respect to the chagrin of the Sinn Féin front bench.

I think the most important lesson the Sinn Fein front bench will have learnt is that people see through them, especially when they are attempting to manufacture a crisis over nothing. They will also have learnt that the timing of the whistleblower's revelations were simply appalling. If I remember correctly the entire episode was poorly executed on the same week of the US presidential elections? What a shambles? Furthermore, Sinn Féin have made the classic mistake of raising this matter now? Why? In 10 months time there will be a handover of power to Leo, why could they not have waited until then before throwing the mud? At least they would get the opportunity to cause some potential division within the coalition, or at best put pressure on Leo in his new position......tactless stuff.

The biggest load of BS I have ever read on here. Are you saying that the opposition are not suppose to raise this as an issue? Now correct me if i am wrong but since the vote of confidence in Varadkar I have not heard an opposition TD mention this since then. The only reason why this is back on the radar is due the article in one of the news papers saying the Gardai had interviewed Harris for 3 hours. Now as I said correct me if I am wrong?

Floppybits

weldoninhio wrote: »

The former Taoiseach stated that if was a confidential document when he sent it to his mate.

Don't you know that doesn't matter SF made him say it.

I Am The Law

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I mean it is passed the condescending remarks at this point?

It doesn't matter whether it was confidential or not. I frankly don't care any more. Neither does anyone else?

The only people obsessing over the matter are opposition TD's desperate to whip up a scandal. The fact remains that the issue is now over. The Gards are just following due process, heads are not going to roll, with respect to the chagrin of the Sinn Féin front bench.

I think the most important lesson the Sinn Fein front bench will have learnt is that people see through them, especially when they are attempting to manufacture a crisis over nothing. They will also have learnt that the timing of the whistleblower's revelations were simply appalling. If I remember correctly the entire episode was poorly executed on the same week of the US presidential elections? What a shambles? Furthermore, Sinn Féin have made the classic mistake of raising this matter now? Why? In 10 months time there will be a handover of power to Leo, why could they not have waited until then before throwing the mud? At least they would get the opportunity to cause some potential division within the coalition, or at best put pressure on Leo in his new position......tactless stuff.

Toast seems to be the hardest word!

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I mean it is passed the condescending remarks at this point?

It doesn't matter whether it was confidential or not. I frankly don't care any more. Neither does anyone else?.

I certainly wasn't being condescending, I have merely asked you on three or four separate occasions now, if the documents Leo sent were confidential or not.

You are going around the houses, jumping up and down, throwing shapes and talking about stuff no-one asked your opinion on.

Anything at all to avoid answering the extremely simple question put to you.