Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856189#Comment_117856189

So you cant do it, surprise, surprise <rollyeyes>. Not one poster here posted that Varadkar was definitely on the government jet. You were asked to provide quotes by posters saying it and you couldnt do it, now why is that?

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856214#Comment_117856214

Pure drivel of a response not sure why you quoted me.

"And I am not aware of a single person here or on Twitter that believes it now."

I would hope not considering its 24 hours since the so called journalist retracted the fake news story based on nothing.

Right up there with the Paddy Cosgrave "dead nurse" story.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856241#Comment_117856241

Right up there with the Paddy Cosgrave "dead nurse" story.

or Leo's corpse one?

You are one of the posters having a huff about people commenting on a story as it was breaking.

I suspect all this is because it was Leo and the concern about social media is not real.

Most people have accepted social media for what it is and don't take anything as fact until it is confirmed.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856276#Comment_117856276

One would think the so called ‘journalist’ would have verified his ‘story’ before going into the public realm

People who behave like that should start looking for another job kind of rapid.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856311#Comment_117856311

Maybe this source had not let him down before so he went with it.

smurgen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856241#Comment_117856241

Or this one from your guy.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1369654303355453440?t=S67SWDhJMdnMjLEVYBlYpA&s=19

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856156#Comment_117856156

The Leo Defence Team are like a broken record in the way they all repeat the same phrases over and over again. Sometimes they pick a new phrase and run with that for a while, but I have to laugh when I hear the 'rent free' one. I imagine, like me 95% of the posters couldn't be bothered giving a 2nd thought to Leo most a lot of the time, but only do when Leo makes some f*ck up or does something that is really sticking his fingers up at the rest of us. Which, if you go back to since he became FG Leader, is quite a lot of times.

But it seems in their minds he can do no wrong. Literally. I imagine a giant poster of Leo in the wall of their mind, along with their favourite Leo movie quotes and Kylie playing in the background. Unhealthy blind following. The idea of mindlessly following anybody, but particularly somebody so crap is utterly mind boggling to me.

Rent free? Have a long hard look in the mirror, You may get a better picture of where he is living 'rent free'.

I know this won't stop the FG lot from using the phrase over and over and over again for another week or two until they come up with another, but like the angry, sexist, misogynistic, racist etc..previous repetitions It shows that they have no argument, no comeback, and are incapable of even trying to say something constructive. Like the lad who stood in the school playground with his tongue hanging out of the side of his mouth, only capable of 'derrrr'.. Monotonous noise.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856321#Comment_117856321

Unfortunately journalism today depend on these ‘sources’, one is given to understand.

Usually, it appears, disgruntled individuals holding grudges.

So called ‘journalists’ should surely check out the veracity before going public.

A few hefty court cases would soften their coughs.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856311#Comment_117856311

How many journalists wouldn't be working at all if that was the case?

If it had turned out to be true and he didn't report it, he'd be facing the 'you are in the wrong job' stuff too.

There are stories published all the time that are not based on fact but speculation and there are posters here that pile onto them like the proverbial flies around you know what.

I do love the way they pretend they don't and head for the high moral ground when it's Leo.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856369#Comment_117856369

You seem to be saying that so called ‘Journalists’ should take a chance and perhaps ruin a persons career then?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856383#Comment_117856383

Journalists do Brendi, take yourself to the courts and see the carnage they can cause. Have a look at the defamation laws we introduced. They weren't brought in for nothing.

Now many journalists would say those laws inhibit their work, because the great and the good have created their own defence with these laws.

Which is why the great and the good and their defenders hate the auld social media. Not controllable, as has been mentioned.

My opinion would be that it does make mistakes but by and large it has been good for democracy. The great and the good can't keep their wee schemes, soirees and nest lining secret anymore, as we have seen.

zom

People are getting screwed including media and journalism. Global internet control adds even more screwing and so we turning into dystopia because of freedom being reduced significantly on daily basis. For everyone. It is so terrifying that ignorance is not only a bliss anymore but somehow the only way to keep sane.

AllForIt

I think Leo Varadkar is a nothing special politician but has been made special because of his personal characteristics.

He doesn't strike me as someone of notable intellect, just someone who has made it through luck and circumstance.

Nothing against him particularity but he doesn't wow me in any way either.

markodaly

You know things are bad when thejournal.ie issues a Fact Check on the 'government jet' story.

https://www.thejournal.ie/leo-varadkar-government-jet-5541829-Sep2021/

The people who extoll the virtues of Twitter as a journalism platform are totally deluded on the way it has changed public policy debates into a big, perpetual and very angry fight over all types of nonsense, most of it untrue and false.

There are countless studies done on the effects of social media and the rise of extremism, mental health issues, isolation, misinformation, increased suicides, deterioration of civic discourse, and so on.

As the saying goes, a lie can be halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on.

Social media is poison.

It is of course not surprising that the usual crew loves social media because it is seen as some benevolent force fighting the establishment and holding politicians to account. They are sucked into the whole narrative, giving blow-by-blow accounts of who said what and when, as if it's a game of football. They are on the side of the cranks, Russian bots, anti-vaxxers, and conspiracy theorsists who are all more visible these days. It is literally a hobby for some. Doom scrolling with some pseudo activism thrown in.

Now, one would think that the latest gaffe which had many people sucked in would be time for thought and reflect on how they consume social media, but Nah..... onwards with the bantz!

Suckit

We are way past the Private Jet false alarm.

A lot of documents were released today, giving some very important information about this 'nothing burger'.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856343#Comment_117856343

Tell that to RTE.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856126#Comment_117856126

Words cannot express the shame and regret I feel at being only one of many many posters on this site and others to have commented on a tweet about a still breaking news story, that I commented on numerous times that I "found it literally unbelievable" the (incorrect) story has been widely retracted, and a lengthy and sincere apology was issued by the journalist who penned the article because - his source made a mistake..

After deep reflection, I have taken the decision to falgulate myself in my garage in front of a picture of the chosen one (who halong bay is on record of saying "he personally doesn't like")

Also this.

https://twitter.com/DrHaroldNews/status/1434892952963268617?s=19

You might not like him halong (don't think you like cosgrave either btw) for whatever the reasons were you stated at the time.

But goddamit he's your guy, and you'll defend his honour come hell or high water.

markodaly

Who runs that Facebook account? Some nobodies?

Are they passing themselves off as The Pheonix? Because I just went onto their Facebook page and every.single.item of satire they had was anti-government.

The thing about satire is that you are supposed to shoot in every direction.

Poor effort all round.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856679#Comment_117856679

What Facebook account? Are you sure you are qualified to comment on the quality of Twitter/Facebook or any other social media platform if you cannot differentiate between them marko?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856369#Comment_117856369

Hearing something from one person and firing it off into the world is not journalism, its gossip.

While I don't doubt there are less than scrupulous journalists in the world, by and large they at least make an effort to confirm a story. Mainstream journalism has outed corruption and government malfeasance far, far, far more than guys who "heard something" on Twitter have

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856690#Comment_117856690

facebook.com/DrHaroldNews

You are welcome.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856717#Comment_117856717

There have been many types of journalists for centuries now. Twitter didn't create the tatler or gossip column.

It's just funny Podge that this cry about social media is loudest whenever the established political parties are in the doodah.

I'm old enough to remember the exact same lamentations about the 'gutter' press and gossip. This story gained traction for a while because of the activity of colleagues of this particular politician and his previous arrogance. A perfect storm so to speak.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856679#Comment_117856679

Tell that to Callan!

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856722#Comment_117856722

Ok, so just to be clear, you decided to reference a Facebook page that wasn't linked to in this thread, literally moments before you made your comment about a Twitter account linked to...

Makes perfect sense. 🤔

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855999#Comment_117855999

Are you talking about yourself as you do chat a bit about nothing... then when it gets hot disappear....

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856914#Comment_117856914

Never disappeared for a second. Not my style. That's an out and out lie.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856863#Comment_117856863

The Twitter item you linked to which doesn't appear on the Dr's Facebook page? 😁

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856732#Comment_117856732

Are you denying the negatives that social media is having on society, despite all the research and data collected?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856732#Comment_117856732

The story gained traction cause people wanted to believe it and didn't bother to apply a single bit of critical thinking to it. Not to mention the classic trope of "just asking questions" being thrown out.

I will happily sit here and criticise the "gutter press" - I can't stand them. Its the idea that somehow social media is suddenly exposing more corruption and is a better source of info that I find farcical. There are plenty of people doing very good work on it, but there is zero rigour or standards applied to what people throw out and as I am sure you are fully aware, the lie gets retold, seen and believed by orders of magnitude more people than the retraction and apology (if it ever appears).

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857016#Comment_117857016

I am pointing out the handy crutch these 'negatives' become whenever certain political entities are in trouble.

All sorts of things have negative influence on society, are you gonna deny that established media didn't have negative effects at times? It amazes me that all these oh so effected don't just leave SM if it is so bad and negative. Why take part in something that is negative?

I'll tell you why Mark, because despite it's negative aspects it is by and large a good thing, if used well, advantageous, and if used badly, like anything else used badly, negative.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857032#Comment_117857032

You can sit there and criticise the gutter press until the cows coe home, it isn't going away either, it has been around for centuries.

You need to grasp the concept of being your own editor or you will never get to grips with SM, something that is here to stay.

Do as was done here, in the main, by those commenting, do not treat the story as 'fact' until it is officially confirmed.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857036#Comment_117857036

And its handy to dismiss out of hand the negatives of social media when you're in the thick of it giving the other lads a kicking, all in the name of some 'bantz'

Again, ignore the tonnes of research into the negatives of social media, the social isolation, the mental health issues, the increased risks of suicide, the misinformation, the bots spread by nation-states, the anti-vax stuff, the QANON stuff... and so on.

Social media gives oxygen to many of these things. Remember, we have a perfectly fine functioning democracy 20 years ago when we didn't have social media. If we didn't have it today, we would be fine.

It's OK though. In a few years time when the shoe is on the other foot, and your boys in West Belfast are getting a kicking from pillar to post, even if most of it is not fair or even true, you may think back to this post and say, "Maybe he had a point?"

Be careful about what you wish for.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857047#Comment_117857047

No one is their own editor, its why editors exist.

I'm aware its here to stay. I'm saying anyone who thinks it is a fundamentally better medium is very, very wrong.

Anyone who continued nonsense like "well who is the plane waiting for, maybe he got it on the way back" as opposed to treating it like the drivel it clearly was is also part of the problem.

It is also a problem for all people and parties. Those in power will generally bear more of a brunt, whoever they are.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857063#Comment_117857063

Get off it then.

Get your local TD to get off it, and get him to get his party off it.

I don't dismiss the negatives, I accept they are part and parcel of it, and use the proper precautions.

If something comes out on it that I don't like, I don't bleat about the medium, I challenge what came out, if it cam be challenged.

And that is exactly what happened with the jet story. It was presented here for discussion, challenged and is now a non story.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857081#Comment_117857081

Case in point here of the selective use of one story that turned out to be untrue.

What would have happened if we treated other stories the same? Dismissed them out of hand because a phalanx of party support said it was untrue?

Think of all the things we wouldn't know or have found out about and it sounds very much like old style politics and how it was done.

It's a case of taking the bad with the good. You cannot have press freedoms without this happening basically.

SM holds all parties to account from what I can see. And that is a good thing ultimately.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856947#Comment_117856947

I was having a conversation with you last week and you disappeared... it was about forming the present Government that you seem to love and hate in equal measure...

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857161#Comment_117857161

Twitter is not the press and should not be treated as such. That is my point.

The press would (or at least should) have made some basic rudimentary inquiries to ascertain if the story was true, would have immediately found out it wasn't and not published it. Hence I have a default level of trust in things reported in the press and a default level of skepticism of what is "reported" on SM. SM itself has done bugger all to hold parties to account, by and large journalists have done so and people just moan and argue on SM.

SM is not a replacement or improvement on traditional media.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857191#Comment_117857191

The story came from a card carrying member of the 'press'.

http://liamdeeganjournalist.blogspot.com/2017/06/liam-deegan-journalist.html

Mistakes happen in the press and on Twitter.

Podge_irl

Yeah, he links to articles written by actual journalists in actual newspapers claiming they are "really" his. He is a "card carrying" nothing. And there is a reason it wasn't reported via an actual press outlet.

Of course mistakes happen. They are not equally distributed.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857165#Comment_117857165

Sorry, not aware of that, have you a link?

maestroamado

You said i was a liar which is untrue... find it yourself... you likely forget things that don't go your way....

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857273#Comment_117857273

I said it was a lie to portray me as somebody who 'disappears'. I don't as a rule. I may occasionally miss something though.

You can't link, not going to bother going to look if you cannot be bothered backing stuff up.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857240#Comment_117857240

You are just shooting the messenger now. He may not be a huge name in journalism

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-election-anger-vulture-funds

but that doesn't mean much. He got a story, trusted the source and published. Not the first and not the last to do it.

Again, you need to accept what social media is, it is a platform for breaking, fast moving stories that established media, by and large has to catch up with because of it's own nature.

Again, I'll say, it is a predictable that the cry goes up about SM whenever a party or politician is in trouble on it and under intense scrutiny.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857360#Comment_117857360

While SM is great for exposing fast moving stories quickly, it's also a great platform for promoting complete fabrications like in this case.

The cry about SM is predictable yes, it tends to happen when demonstrably false stories are promoted widely as if they are fact. In this case, the story was not even slightly true, someone quite literally just invented it in their head and people fell for it.

I could stick a story on twitter tomorrow about how Mary-Lou eats dogs for breakfast. Doesn't make me a "journalist", and "I had a source, I trusted it, my fault" is hardly ok when I'm exposed for being a complete bullshitter after I've convinced half of Irish twitter that the story is true and there's a thread on boards.ie about it. You can be sure that even after I'm exposed as a liar there'll be plenty of people who still believe that Mary-Lou likes to eat dogs.

In this case, the smell will still linger about Varadkar taking the govt jet to a concert, even though it's complete lies.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857240#Comment_117857240

Did you read the bio?

The links shown here are taken from various articles originally written by Liam and sold to various media outlets for editing by their own journalists.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/timeline-the-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-s-millington-1.2187055http://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/timeline-the-sale-of-siteserv-to-denis-o-brien-s-millington-1.2187055

http://www.thejournal.ie/no-deal-to-give-tender-for-water-meters-to-obrien-firm-insists-minister-443454-May2012/http%3A//www.thejournal.ie/no-deal-to-give-tender-for-water-meters-to-obrien-firm-insists-minister-443454-May2012/

Are you suggesting he's lying that he originally wrote the articles? The journalists who put their names to those articles would surely be up in arms if that were a lie?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857411#Comment_117857411

Good with the bad Awec. If you can come up with a bullet proof way to avoid mistakes in press and SM. Work away, you'll make a fortune.

I, will accept SM is here, be my own editor and accept nothing as 'fact' until it is confirmed.

Not much more to say about it.

awec

For the avoidance of any doubt by the way, Mary-Lou does not eat dogs. At least not that I know of.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857124#Comment_117857124

I am not 'on it'

I don't use Twitter, nor do I tweet. I do ANY politics on Facebook because it's a cesspit. I don't do any other social media. But go ahead, tell me I am to blame, while you live in ignorant bliss.

Say that to the lives lost to Suicide or Qanon nonesense.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857411#Comment_117857411

Very true, I think it was the Indo that had to quickly pull a story it never actually retracted about Leo Varadkar having to move house "because of threats" or something similar.

That was quickly debunked on social media, from memory someone seen Matt and Leo frequenting the apartment block coming and going from exercising or something.

Next thing you know, the story was a "404" never retracted nor clarified from the journalist, who I think might have been Philip Ryan. This is all from memory, and easily researched if you have the time or inclination to try and debunk it, knock yourself out.

There was a horde of folk here more than willing to run with it unquestionably at the time though. You cant have it both ways I'm afraid.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857479#Comment_117857479

Yea indeed, but I would argue that while the official press can and do get it wrong at times, SM gets it wrong pretty often. Just the nature of the beast.

Anyway, I have said my piece on this one!