Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

I Am The Law

Leo = Toast

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

I thought from its title it was a thread about the village accusations
Its the general leo thread now is it
Explains why its busy so I suppose
I couldnt give a sh1te about him unless theres something new and dramatic
There isn't
Nothing preached to the converted here will do him any harm
No regulars here are floating FG or SF voters
All minds are made up in this place long and ever ago
Its all predictable tit for tat
Good place for venting

It's no longer accusations. We know he did it. It's up to the Garda if any further action will be taken, the FF/FG/Greens have no regard or respect for such things.
Minds are made up as he confessed.
I suggest you read over the thread and see who's looking to derail or sideline it. We've folk making up things like people saying others said Leo would be in jail

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

It's no longer accusations. We know he did it. It's up to the Garda if any further action will be taken, the FF/FG/Greens have no regard or respect for such things.
Minds are made up as he confessed.
I suggest you read over the thread and see who's looking to derail or sideline it. We've folk making up things like people saying others said Leo would be in jail

Its still just an accusation that he broke the law
The people that accept why he did what he did with or without condoning it are not for turning and neither are the opposite views

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

Its still just an accusation that he broke the law
The people that accept why he did what he did with or without condoning it are not for turning and neither are the opposite views

That's true. But he did it. It's not an accusation that he did it. Whether any law was broke is a different matter, he did what he was accused of. If he's found not to have broken the law, he still did it.
He did it to try appease potential supporters. That's been shown. He lied, that too has been shown. The only outstanding issue is are people okay with it and if the Garda find it was illegal or not.

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

Its still just an accusation that he broke the law
The people that accept why he did what he did with or without condoning it are not for turning and neither are the opposite views

It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best. There were clear public policy reasons to share the document - ensuring that the other representative group of doctors was on board - so unless there was some personal benefit, which is silly speculation and conspiracy theory, then there is absolutely nothing to see and nothing wrong.

The only thing he has conceded is that the way he shared the document was wrong. A bit like someone in the office using the colour printer to print black and white.

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

That's true. But he did it. It's not an accusation that he did it. Whether any law was broke is a different matter, he did what he was accused of. If he's found not to have broken the law, he still did it.
He did it to try appease potential supporters. That's been shown. He lied, that too has been shown. The only outstanding issue is are people okay with it and if the Garda find it was illegal or not.

The story accused him of breaking the law ,the official secrets act
Without proceedings taken against him thats just an accusation
The rest of the story doesnt matter a fig to his voter base
Most of them either accept his intentions completely or accrpt them but would have done what he says he was trying to do more conventionally

What specifically did he lie about?
I dont remember that specefic
Not saying he didnt but Remind me
Lie is a word used with gay abandon these days towards politicians people dont like,so Id like to know if thats the case here

As regards what he did,if its not illegal and doesnt alienate his voter base,then its just another Vent
Im not expecting the Gardaí to persue the matter in the courts to be honest
A perfectly acceptable vent in the same way I've to listen to any other vent on any other politician or vent myself

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best. There were clear public policy reasons to share the document - ensuring that the other representative group of doctors was on board - so unless there was some personal benefit, which is silly speculation and conspiracy theory, then there is absolutely nothing to see and nothing wrong.

The only thing he has conceded is that the way he shared the document was wrong. A bit like someone in the office using the colour printer to print black and white.

We don't live in a dictatorship. The document was deemed confidential. He leaked it to a pal. He apologised so he disagrees with your take here.
No there where not. It was a negotiation document, a private matter between the union and the health department. Varadkar leaked/passed the confidential document to his pal, the then head of a rival union.
He did it to try garner support.

You contradict yourself with this ending.
Your opinion is your own.

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

The story accused him of breaking the law ,the official secrets act
Without proceedings taken against him thats just an accusation
The rest of the story doesnt matter a fig to his voter base
Most of them either accept his intentions completely or accrpt them but would have done what he says he was trying to do more conventionally

What specifically did he lie about?
I dont remember that specefic
Not saying he didnt but Remind me
Lie is a word used with gay abandon these days towards politicians people dont like,so Id like to know if thats the case here

As regards what he did,if its not illegal and doesnt alienate his voter base,then its just another Vent
Im not expecting the Gardaí to persue the matter in the courts to be honest
A perfectly acceptable vent in the same way I've to listen to any other vent on any other politician or vent myself

He was accused of leaking the document. He apologised for leaking the document. Whether it was illegal or not, he still leaked the document.
It being illegal was considered as a possibility, not the PR spin/lies from one commentator that many were saying he'd go to jail :rolleyes:

It's important we hold representatives to account, the higher the more so. Trying to dismiss or shut down such discussion is dangerous IMO. It won't always be your team under the microscope.

Cute Hoor

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.

So you'd have no problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald emptying the Stephens Green dungeons and couriering them to 51 Falls Road

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

He was accused of leaking the document. He apologised for leaking the document. Whether it was illegal or not, he still leaked the document.
It being illegal was considered as a possibility, not the PR spin/lies from one commentator that many were saying he'd go to jail :rolleyes:

It's important we hold representatives to account, the higher the more so. Trying to dismiss or shut down such discussion is dangerous IMO. It won't always be your team under the microscope.

The story has the hashtag leothelawbreaker in the villages tweets and also claims the law was broken
Its feckin central to it
Where did vradakar lie about it,specifically,is what I asked you
My recollection is he gave an explanation
It didnt higher or lower him in my eyes
Im already not voting for him,never in a month of sundays
But want to know where he lied about this which is what you said he did

blanch152

Cute Hoor wrote: »

So you'd have no problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald emptying the Stephens Green dungeons and couriering them to 51 Falls Road

Sometimes I wonder, really.

What Stephens Green dungeons? That is a new one to me. Is that where the government stores its adrenochrome?

Cute Hoor

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.

blanch152 wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder, really.

What Stephens Green dungeons? That is a new one to me. Is that where the government stores its adrenochrome?

OK I'll make it easier for you. So you'd have no problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government

blanch152

Cute Hoor wrote: »

OK I'll make it easier for you. So you'd have no problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government

Why do you think I oppose Sinn Fein ever being let into government?

Going on what happens in the North, she won't need to do that, every convicted terrorist will be given a job as an advisor or on a board.

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

The story has the hashtag leothelawbreaker in the villages tweets and also claims the law was broken
Its feckin central to it
Where did vradakar lie about it,specifically,is what I asked you
My recollection is he gave an explanation
It didnt higher or lower him in my eyes
Im already not voting for him,never in a month of sundays
But want to know where he lied about this which is what you said he did

I never claimed he broke the law. Many would have wondered. That would explain that hash tag.
He claimed he leaked it to bring more GP's into the discussion. Based on the messages he did it fearful of losing support. Also it was a confidential document, he betrayed the trust between the union and department of health.
For me him leaking the document to his pal is the issue. He did that.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Why do you think I oppose Sinn Fein ever being let into government?

Going on what happens in the North, she won't need to do that, every convicted terrorist will be given a job as an advisor or on a board.

Dodge, deflect...

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder, really.

What Stephens Green dungeons? That is a new one to me. Is that where the government stores its adrenochrome?

Take it Erica won't be canvassing for FG next election

Cute Hoor

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.

blanch152 wrote: »

Why do you think I oppose Sinn Fein ever being let into government?

Going on what happens in the North, she won't need to do that, every convicted terrorist will be given a job as an advisor or on a board.

Did you have difficulty with the question?
Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government. It's a very simple question

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

I never claimed he broke the law. Many would have wondered. That would explain that hash tag.
He claimed he leaked it to bring more GP's into the discussion. Based on the messages he did it fearful of losing support. Also it was a confidential document, he betrayed the trust between the union and department of health.
For me him leaking the document to his pal is the issue. He did that.

Right,so he didnt lie about anything in relation to this contrary to what you told me
I do wish the lie word wasnt used unless theres a definite lie
We all know at this stage the opinion of people predisposed to disliking vradakar and you vent that well
But its crucial to add ,enough people are not interested such that his party are still 6 points higher than at the last election
Thats democracy
Different people make songs and dances about different things and theyre often mutually exclusive poisition takers on topics
Mostly probably,in fact
No one floating in this venting chamber

blanch152

RandomViewer wrote: »

SF looking at likely 50+ seats if there was an election soon, even with 10 less seats FF would still be an option, SF even contemplating coalition with FG would be too much for many supporters,

Can't see Sinn Fein getting 50 seats. They will lose a few next time out, as well as gaining as the likes of Reada and Violet are unelectable now that people see them for what they are.

blanch152

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG have always been fine with criminality so long as its for profit, they only get worked up when its for a cause

So where's the court cases?

Cute Hoor

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.

blanch152 wrote: »

So where's the court cases?

You might have missed my post above

Did you have difficulty with the question?
Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government. It's a very simple question

Nobotty

Cute Hoor wrote: »

You might have missed my post above

Did you have difficulty with the question?
Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government. It's a very simple question

He'd have a problem with anything She did probably
But to be brutally honest,Id be surprised if as Taoiseach Mary Lou didnt have a good read of all inteligence on the IRA less than 30 years old at the request of high up Republicans
Id have no problem with that as I dont see Republicans as a threat to anyone at this stage
We'd never hear about it
Obviously FF and FG people would have a problem
It would be a tad more serious than industrial relations docs

Cute Hoor

Nobotty wrote: »

He'd have a problem with anything She did probably
But to be brutally honest,Id be surprised if as Taoiseach Mary Lou didnt have a good read of all inteligence on the IRA less than 30 years old at the request of high up Republicans
Id have no problem with that as I dont see Republicans as a threat to anyone at this stage
We'd never hear about it
Obviously FF and FG people would have a problem
It would be a tad more serious tgan industrial relations docs

It shouldn't be an overly challenging question to answer for him/her though, he/she is showing some reticence.

Nobotty wrote: »

It would be a tad more serious tgan industrial relations docs

It is either right or wrong for a Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, if it is OK for one Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document (as he/she claims) then it has to be OK for any Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, yea, or am I missing something here?

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

Right,so he didnt lie about anything in relation to this contrary to what you told me
I do wish the lie word wasnt used unless theres a definite lie
We all know at this stage the opinion of people predisposed to disliking vradakar and you vent that well
But its crucial to add ,enough people are not interested such that his party are still 6 points higher than at the last election
Thats democracy
Different people make songs and dances about different things and theyre often mutually exclusive poisition takers on topics
Mostly probably,in fact
No one floating in this venting chamber

He claimed he leaked the document to bring more GPs in to the discussion. He apologised and that claim was a lie. The lie was shown in the whatsapp messaging. The discussion was on losing support from his pals members, not inclusion, which is complete bull**** as the negotiations were private and the document confidential
Hardly crucial. A poll? It could change tomorrow, that's if you put weight in such things.
I've not supported a party since 2011, even then I'd give others a nod. Can't speak for others on here.
The idea that any criticism must be biased and along party lines says more about you AFAIC.
We know a lot of people who previously voted FG went elsewhere. Do you think these people were hardcore FG and are now hardcore elsewhere? That doesn't seem likely.

RandomViewer

Nobotty wrote: »

He'd have a problem with anything She did probably
But to be brutally honest,Id be surprised if as Taoiseach Mary Lou didnt have a good read of all inteligence on the IRA less than 30 years old at the request of high up Republicans
Id have no problem with that as I dont see Republicans as a threat to anyone at this stage
We'd never hear about it
Obviously FF and FG people would have a problem
It would be a tad more serious than industrial relations docs

Do you honestly think there are any Garda files that any of the three parties can't access,

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

He claimed he leaked the document to bring more GPs in to the discussion. He apologised and that claim was a lie. The lie was shown in the whatsapp messaging. The discussion was on losing support from his pals members, not inclusion, which is complete bull**** as the negotiations were private and the document confidential
Hardly crucial. A poll? It could change tomorrow, that's if you put weight in such things.
I've not supported a party since 2011, even then I'd give others a nod. Can't speak for others on here.
The idea that any criticism must be biased and along party lines says more about you AFAIC.
We know a lot of people who previously voted FG went elsewhere. Do you think these people were hardcore FG and are now hardcore elsewhere? That doesn't seem likely.

I read those whatsapps and didnt come to the conclusions you did
I did see someone petulant bigging up his relationship with vradakar
I also saw manipulating and agenda driving going on that wouldnt inspire me towant to draw any conclusions at all
On the polls Dont shoot the messenger,is all I'm saying
Theres no need to be getting defensive
If you think a large core of centre right voters are going away,Id expect you to be disappointed
Ive dealt with enough of them to know their view and mine differ
They wont merge
Lifes too short for over venting
Thats why I only give the odd look in here these days
I'm not a fan of explaining what makes me happiest other than its not titting and tatting immoveable opinions
I'll pop back in when theres new information,Ive expected that from the get go to be news that the investigation is closed

Nobotty

RandomViewer wrote: »

Do you honestly think there are any Garda files that any of the three parties can't access,

Yup
Only the Taoiseach can access those,I believe probably after requesting them from the justice minister
If theres any other method,you can let me know
Just on my post,though they wont directly say it,Id imagine its the biggest reason FG FF and labour dont want to do business with Sinn Féin

Whatisthisnow

Many in FF are prepared to speak to SF.

Nobotty

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Many in FF are prepared to speak to SF.

Well 2,dont exaggerate
Eamon o'Caoimh being one
That excites me no end....

McMurphy

Nobotty wrote: »

Yup
Only the Taoiseach can access those,I believe probably after requesting them from the justice minister
If theres any other method,you can let me know
Just on my post,though they wont directly say it,Id imagine its the biggest reason FG FF and labour dont want to do business with Sinn Féin

Get a lad who can access them make a copy, and then courier them to you......