Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Cute Hoor

Nobotty wrote: »

He'd have a problem with anything She did probably
But to be brutally honest,Id be surprised if as Taoiseach Mary Lou didnt have a good read of all inteligence on the IRA less than 30 years old at the request of high up Republicans
Id have no problem with that as I dont see Republicans as a threat to anyone at this stage
We'd never hear about it
Obviously FF and FG people would have a problem
It would be a tad more serious tgan industrial relations docs

It shouldn't be an overly challenging question to answer for him/her though, he/she is showing some reticence.

Nobotty wrote: »

It would be a tad more serious tgan industrial relations docs

It is either right or wrong for a Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, if it is OK for one Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document (as he/she claims) then it has to be OK for any Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, yea, or am I missing something here?

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

Right,so he didnt lie about anything in relation to this contrary to what you told me
I do wish the lie word wasnt used unless theres a definite lie
We all know at this stage the opinion of people predisposed to disliking vradakar and you vent that well
But its crucial to add ,enough people are not interested such that his party are still 6 points higher than at the last election
Thats democracy
Different people make songs and dances about different things and theyre often mutually exclusive poisition takers on topics
Mostly probably,in fact
No one floating in this venting chamber

He claimed he leaked the document to bring more GPs in to the discussion. He apologised and that claim was a lie. The lie was shown in the whatsapp messaging. The discussion was on losing support from his pals members, not inclusion, which is complete bull**** as the negotiations were private and the document confidential
Hardly crucial. A poll? It could change tomorrow, that's if you put weight in such things.
I've not supported a party since 2011, even then I'd give others a nod. Can't speak for others on here.
The idea that any criticism must be biased and along party lines says more about you AFAIC.
We know a lot of people who previously voted FG went elsewhere. Do you think these people were hardcore FG and are now hardcore elsewhere? That doesn't seem likely.

RandomViewer

Nobotty wrote: »

He'd have a problem with anything She did probably
But to be brutally honest,Id be surprised if as Taoiseach Mary Lou didnt have a good read of all inteligence on the IRA less than 30 years old at the request of high up Republicans
Id have no problem with that as I dont see Republicans as a threat to anyone at this stage
We'd never hear about it
Obviously FF and FG people would have a problem
It would be a tad more serious than industrial relations docs

Do you honestly think there are any Garda files that any of the three parties can't access,

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

He claimed he leaked the document to bring more GPs in to the discussion. He apologised and that claim was a lie. The lie was shown in the whatsapp messaging. The discussion was on losing support from his pals members, not inclusion, which is complete bull**** as the negotiations were private and the document confidential
Hardly crucial. A poll? It could change tomorrow, that's if you put weight in such things.
I've not supported a party since 2011, even then I'd give others a nod. Can't speak for others on here.
The idea that any criticism must be biased and along party lines says more about you AFAIC.
We know a lot of people who previously voted FG went elsewhere. Do you think these people were hardcore FG and are now hardcore elsewhere? That doesn't seem likely.

I read those whatsapps and didnt come to the conclusions you did
I did see someone petulant bigging up his relationship with vradakar
I also saw manipulating and agenda driving going on that wouldnt inspire me towant to draw any conclusions at all
On the polls Dont shoot the messenger,is all I'm saying
Theres no need to be getting defensive
If you think a large core of centre right voters are going away,Id expect you to be disappointed
Ive dealt with enough of them to know their view and mine differ
They wont merge
Lifes too short for over venting
Thats why I only give the odd look in here these days
I'm not a fan of explaining what makes me happiest other than its not titting and tatting immoveable opinions
I'll pop back in when theres new information,Ive expected that from the get go to be news that the investigation is closed

Nobotty

RandomViewer wrote: »

Do you honestly think there are any Garda files that any of the three parties can't access,

Yup
Only the Taoiseach can access those,I believe probably after requesting them from the justice minister
If theres any other method,you can let me know
Just on my post,though they wont directly say it,Id imagine its the biggest reason FG FF and labour dont want to do business with Sinn Féin

Whatisthisnow

Many in FF are prepared to speak to SF.

Nobotty

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Many in FF are prepared to speak to SF.

Well 2,dont exaggerate
Eamon o'Caoimh being one
That excites me no end....

McMurphy

Nobotty wrote: »

Yup
Only the Taoiseach can access those,I believe probably after requesting them from the justice minister
If theres any other method,you can let me know
Just on my post,though they wont directly say it,Id imagine its the biggest reason FG FF and labour dont want to do business with Sinn Féin

Get a lad who can access them make a copy, and then courier them to you......

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

I read those whatsapps and didnt come to the conclusions you did
I did see someone petulant bigging up his relationship with vradakar
I also saw manipulating and agenda driving going on that wouldnt inspire me towant to draw any conclusions at all
On the polls Dont shoot the messenger,is all I'm saying
Theres no need to be getting defensive
If you think a large core of centre right voters are going away,Id expect you to be disappointed
Ive dealt with enough of them to know their view and mine differ
They wont merge
Lifes too short for over venting
Thats why I only give the odd look in here these days
I'm not a fan of explaining what makes me happiest other than its not titting and tatting immoveable opinions
I'll pop back in when theres new information,Ive expected that from the get go to be news that the investigation is closed

I'm not defensive. Using a poll to shrug off Varadkar slipping a confidential document to his pal is a bit of a stretch.
I don't expect any such thing. I'm stating the clear fact that FG lost votes. They had to go somewhere. They might come back. Point is there are lots of floating votes and lots of them didn't think Varadkar's FG was the way to go.
You keep saying 'venting'. No venting over here, just commenting on comments others make.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Can't see Sinn Fein getting 50 seats. They will lose a few next time out, as well as gaining as the likes of Reada and Violet are unelectable now that people see them for what they are.

you've been wrong on every sf election prediction so far. they will not make the same mistake twice and next time will run plenty of candidates. all the waffle in the world wont help FF, FG or the greens

Whatisthisnow

Nobotty wrote: »

Well 2,dont exaggerate
Eamon o'Caoimh being one
That excites me no end....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-tds-would-not-exclude-sinn-f%C3%A9in-coalition-after-next-election-1.4478483

Nearly 20 my friend

RandomViewer

Nobotty wrote: »

Yup
Only the Taoiseach can access those,I believe probably after requesting them from the justice minister
If theres any other method,you can let me know
Just on my post,though they wont directly say it,Id imagine its the biggest reason FG FF and labour dont want to do business with Sinn Féin

Don't kid yourself , state security would be useful as a sieve if you were stuck

Nobotty

RandomViewer wrote: »

Don't kid yourself , state security would be useful as a sieve if you were stuck

They dont call this the opinion forum for nothing

Nobotty

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-tds-would-not-exclude-sinn-f%C3%A9in-coalition-after-next-election-1.4478483

Nearly 20 my friend

Wishy washy weasel words designed for the equivalent of likes,namely transfers
Only the usual 2,McSharry and o'Caoimh are emphatic,similar to the last election
Beware comments prompted by journalists asking questions like that as thry invariably get ambigous answers
Election time,emphatic
Post election ambigous
It was always thus

Realisticly though,carefull what you wish for as mark my words,when SF go into government,they wont be the Sinn Féin you know and love anymore
They'll be the civil servants and unions 'go fors' like everyone in government ever

blanch152

Cute Hoor wrote: »

It shouldn't be an overly challenging question to answer for him/her though, he/she is showing some reticence.



It is either right or wrong for a Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, if it is OK for one Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document (as he/she claims) then it has to be OK for any Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, yea, or am I missing something here?

I have answered the question. I wouldn't let her anywhere near being Taoiseach.

Cute Hoor

Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.

blanch152 wrote: »

I have answered the question. I wouldn't let her anywhere near being Taoiseach.

You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.

FrancieBrady

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.

We are in 'allegation is sufficient' territory of blanch's political creed.

Whatisthisnow

Nobotty wrote: »

Wishy washy weasel words designed for the equivalent of likes,namely transfers
Only the usual 2,McSharry and o'Caoimh are emphatic,similar to the last election
Beware comments prompted by journalists asking questions like that as thry invariably get ambigous answers
Election time,emphatic
Post election ambigous
It was always thus

Realisticly though,carefull what you wish for as mark my words,when SF go into government,they wont be the Sinn Féin you know and love anymore
They'll be the civil servants and unions 'go fors' like everyone in government ever

Unless SF have a better candidate in my area, i will be going SDs first as i did last year

blanch152

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.

The question will never arise.

It is a hypotethical question being used as a tactical debating tool, that I choose not to answer in the way that is phrased, given the reductionist attempt to over-simplify a complicated issue. There is no obligation on any poster to answer any question, and as I have pointed out, I have answered it in a different way.

Cute Hoor

blanch152 wrote: »

The question will never arise.

It is a hypotethical question being used as a tactical debating tool, that I choose not to answer in the way that is phrased, given the reductionist attempt to over-simplify a complicated issue. There is no obligation on any poster to answer any question, and as I have pointed out, I have answered it in a different way.

No you haven't answered it, and obviously have no intention of doing so, just waffle on interminably.

blanch152

Cute Hoor wrote: »

No you haven't answered it, and obviously have no intention of doing so, just waffle on interminably.

I have addressed the issue comprehensively.

Cute Hoor

blanch152 wrote: »

I have addressed the issue comprehensively.

You have waffled, comprehensively

blanch152

Cute Hoor wrote: »

You have waffled, comprehensively

I am not going to be bullied by another poster into following their limited agenda.

RandomViewer

Cute Hoor wrote: »

You have waffled, comprehensively

So possible FG coup if Mary Lou becomes Taoiseach?

Charlie Flanagan designing his generals uniform

Floppybits

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.

One would assume that a precedent has now been set and it is ok for any Taoiseach of any hue to be able pass documents marked confidential to anybody outside government.

The reason why this is not being answered is because the FFG have now backed themselves into a corner by supporting Leo Varadkar.

blanch152

Floppybits wrote: »

One would assume that a precedent has now been set and it is ok for any Taoiseach of any hue to be able pass documents marked confidential to anybody outside government.

The reason why this is not being answered is because the FFG have now backed themselves into a corner by supporting Leo Varadkar.

A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

The precedent is set if there is no sanction, any Taoiseach can do this and answer for it later if caught.

No point worrying about spilt milk as they say. You guys have given any Taoiseach the right here, including a Shinner one. That's the bottom line.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

I am not misinterpreting anything. The facts are that FFG by their support of Leo Varadkar have now set the precedent that the Taoiseach can leak confidential documents to whomever they like. So now it does not matter who is the Taoiseach or what party they are from FFG have not got a leg to stand on simple as that.

You can tie yourself up in knots with your civil service speak/weasel words or whatever, the facts are that Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach leaked a confidential document to a person outside government and FFG have now said that this is ok by supporting him. So if it does turn out that we have Taoiseach who is not FF or FG then the same precedent that this government has set will apply to them.

You can't be having it one way for one group but another way for another group either it applies to all to applies to none.

Cute Hoor

Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.

blanch152 wrote: »

A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

But those good public policy reasons might apply in some situations, and as you say the Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best, so if Mary Lou, as Taoiseach, decided herself that there were good public policy reasons to give a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to a buddy it would be OK.

Fann Linn

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



But those good public policy reasons might apply in some situations, and as you say the Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best, so if Mary Lou, as Taoiseach, decided herself that there were good public policy reasons to give a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to a buddy it would be OK.

Heard Sarkozy tried that defence too!!