Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Depends where you get your news from I suppose.

True. Most other media reports have it that the Gardai are investigating a complaint. Vast difference to LV being under criminal investigation.

James Brown

RandomName2 wrote: »

SF will have to come to the realization at some point that FG voters care as much about Varadkar's dealings with general practitioners as SF voters care about the Republican terrorism links.

Very big difference. I'd imagine anyone voting SF would accept the links to the IRA.
Also if MLMD did the same as Varadkar I'd imagine most of those votes would evaporate.

James Brown

On the back of McMurphy's post I'll just jump in on this:

probe verb
probed; probing; probes
Definition of probe (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to search into and explore very thoroughly : subject to a penetrating investigation
2: to examine with a probe uncrewed vehicles probed space

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

True. Most other media reports have it that the Gardai are investigating a complaint. Vast difference to LV being under criminal investigation.

This isn't difficult.
Gardai are investigating a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore the Gardai are investigating whether Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore Leo is the subject of a criminal investigation.
Whether Leo is a criminal or not is yet to be decided and won't be decided by the Gardai, but by a criminal trial where the court will prosecute the evidence as is his rights under the law.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

True. Most other media reports have it that the Gardai are investigating a complaint. Vast difference to LV being under criminal investigation.

It's merely engaging in wordplay.
They all mean the same thing. The Garda are investigating/looking at/looking in to/probing/having a cup of tea and a chat regarding a claim LV may have broken the law. FYI: braking the law is a criminal act.

Whatisthisnow

James Brown wrote: »

It's merely engaging in wordplay.
They all mean the same thing. The Garda are investigating/looking at/looking in to/probing/having a cup of tea and a chat regarding a claim LV may have broken the law. FYI: braking the law is a criminal act.

Are you sure? People here yesterday said as he was the main man he can determine who gets any document.

When asked if that extended to any leader of country no matter who it is, thats not allowed

Cute Hoor

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Are you sure? People here yesterday said as he was the main man he can determine who gets any document.

When asked if that extended to any leader of country no matter who it is, thats not allowed

Unless I'm mistaken the rule is: Taoiseach Varadkar can pass a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to zerocraic or whomsoever he wishes, Taoiseach AnybodyElse shouldn't pass a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody. Not of course that Taoiseach Varadkar would ever dream of doing that.
#ILoveLeo

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This isn't difficult.
Gardai are investigating a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore the Gardai are investigating whether Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore Leo is the subject of a criminal investigation.
Whether Leo is a criminal or not is yet to be decided and won't be decided by the Gardai, but by a criminal trial where the court will prosecute the evidence as is his rights under the law.

That is complete nonsense and shows zero understanding of what the Gardai do. That is surprising because this has been explained on here many times.

Gardai have received a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Gardai are inquiring as to whether a criminal act may have been committed. If the Gardai decide that no criminal act took place, the inquiries will end. If the Gardai decide that it is possible that a criminal act took place, they will decide whether it warrants investigation.

That is as far as we have got, no further. Hyperbole and exaggeration of the situation is silly, in my opinion.

McMurphy

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Are you sure? People here yesterday said as he was the main man he can determine who gets any document.

When asked if that extended to any leader of country no matter who it is, thats not allowed

Two posters in particular tied themselves together in a lovely knot with that one.

It was the only yes or no answer folk ever had to to travel from here, to the dark side of the moon and back again to avoid saying yes or no on.


It was fcuking hilarious.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That is complete nonsense and shows zero understanding of what the Gardai do. That is surprising because this has been explained on here many times.

Gardai have received a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Gardai are inquiring as to whether a criminal act may have been committed. If the Gardai decide that no criminal act took place, the inquiries will end. If the Gardai decide that it is possible that a criminal act took place, they will decide whether it warrants investigation.

That is as far as we have got, no further. Hyperbole and exaggeration of the situation is silly, in my opinion.

Gardai are conducting a criminal investigation.

No hyperbole just the facts.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gardai are conducting a criminal investigation.

No hyperbole just the facts.

No matter how many times you repeat a lie, that doesn't make it true. I have set out the known facts in my post.

Cute Hoor

This criminal investigation by the Gardai is a waste of time, Leo would never do anything wrong never mind something criminal, unthinkable
#ILoveLeo #LeonottheLeak #Leoloadsacraic #PopeLeoXIV

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

No matter how many times you repeat a lie, that doesn't make it true. I have set out the known facts in my post.

How your defensiveness leads you to believe that the Gardai will not be investigating whether or not Varadkar committed a criminal act in order to adjudicate on the complaint is flaberghasting at this stage

Nobotty

McMurphy wrote: »

Depends where you get your news from I suppose.

Would you like me to link you to other hyperbolic headlines from the mail about the IRA perhaps?
Does it make their hyperbolic reporting style fact? NO
Its a British Rag with a particular dislike of Vradakar's Brexit stance
Their British version think hes pm depending on what bone they're picking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This isn't difficult.
Gardai are investigating a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore the Gardai are investigating whether Leo committed a criminal act. Therefore Leo is the subject of a criminal investigation.
Whether Leo is a criminal or not is yet to be decided and won't be decided by the Gardai, but by a criminal trial where the court will prosecute the evidence as is his rights under the law.

No they are investigating the veracity of the complaint first
Innocent untill proven guilty right through the process

Thats how it works
I actually find the zealousness of your reply amusing,its almost like theres a need to attach the word criminal to vradakar while its still possible
If anyone wants to continue to do that,I suspect the urgency the Gardaí are applying to the matter will allow them plenty of time to enjoy it some more
Am fully expecting this to go nowhere

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How your defensiveness leads you to believe that the Gardai will not be investigating whether or not Varadkar committed a criminal act in order to adjudicate on the complaint is flaberghasting at this stage

It is good that you have effectively withdrawn the lie that there is currently a criminal investigation into Varadkar and that the possibility is in the future.

Because of the fact that there is only a preliminary inquiry, which has taken you a long time to concede, there is nothing flabbergasting about holding the view that the initial garda inquiries will not lead to an investigation.

shtpEdthePlum

I don't know if this was mentioned in the thread.

https://extra.ie/2021/02/21/news/irish-news/leo-leak-investigation-developing-at-pace-but-helen-mcentee-was-kept-in-the-dark

It would be great if there was an update on the case, because he definitely shouldn't remain in his position if it does transpire that there is a criminal aspect to his actions. Just from the point of view that he's in high office and clearly can't be trusted with sensitive information.

It is true that he gave these confidential files to a friend who could compromise the Medical Union talks. What other damaging leaks is he engaging in currently to undermine other interests. You can understand why Drew Harris didn't inform McEntee, it's a conflict of interest as Leo is her superior currently and he's completely untrustworthy.

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

Would you like me to link you to other hyperbolic headlines from the mail about the IRA perhaps?
Does it make their hyperbolic reporting style fact? NO
Its a British Rag with a particular dislike of Vradakar's Brexit stance
Their British version think hes pm depending on what bone they're picking


No they are investigating the veracity of the complaint first
Innocent untill proven guilty right through the process

Thats how it works
I actually find the zealousness of your reply amusing,its almost like theres a need to attach the word criminal to vradakar while its still possible
If anyone wants to continue to do that,I suspect the urgency the Gardaí are applying to the matter will allow them plenty of time to enjoy it some more
Am fully expecting this to go nowhere

This a joke now.
To investigate the 'veracity' they have to investigate Varadkar Therefore he is the subject of a criminal investigation.
As the Gardai don't decide on guilt we will have to wait on a court decision if the Gardai find evidence of a crime.

No amount of twisting changes those facts.

Nobotty

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

I don't know if this was mentioned in the thread.

https://extra.ie/2021/02/21/news/irish-news/leo-leak-investigation-developing-at-pace-but-helen-mcentee-was-kept-in-the-dark

It would be great if there was an update on the case, because he definitely shouldn't remain in his position if it does transpire that there is a criminal aspect to his actions. Just from the point of view that he's in high office and clearly can't be trusted with sensitive information.

It is true that he gave these confidential files to a friend who could compromise the Medical Union talks. What other damaging leaks is he engaging in currently to undermine other interests. You can understand why Drew Harris didn't inform McEntee, it's a conflict of interest as he is her superior currently and he's completely untrustworthy.

Its probably standard procedure,but you'd need evidence that a document was covered by the official secrets act and thats where Ive seen a problem since the start of this controversy
Once its left the cabinet and widely distributed in the IMO,I dont see how it could be

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This a joke now.
To investigate the 'veracity' they have to investigate Varadkar Therefore he is the subject of a criminal investigation.
As the Gardai don't decide on guilt we will have to wait on a court decision if the Gardai find evidence of a crime.

No amount of twisting changes those facts.

They Don't Francie at all actually
What vradakar did with the document is known and admitted,no question or investigation there at all
What they are investigating is if the document was covered by the official secrets act
That will decide the veracity of the complaint

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

That is complete nonsense and shows zero understanding of what the Gardai do. That is surprising because this has been explained on here many times.

Gardai have received a complaint that Leo committed a criminal act. Gardai are inquiring as to whether a criminal act may have been committed. If the Gardai decide that no criminal act took place, the inquiries will end. If the Gardai decide that it is possible that a criminal act took place, they will decide whether it warrants investigation.

That is as far as we have got, no further. Hyperbole and exaggeration of the situation is silly, in my opinion.

So you're saying the Garda are conducting an investigation regarding a criminal matter but its not a criminal investigation?
Is the idea the suspect must be guilty before the investigation is given a title?

Cute Hoor

Nobotty wrote: »

Would you like me to link you to other hyperbolic headlines from the mail about the IRA perhaps?

Are the IRA involved in this now, it gets more complicated.

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

They Don't Francie at all actually
What vradakar did with the document is known and admitted,no question or investigation there at all
What they are investigating is if the document was covered by the official secrets act
That will decide the veracity of the complaint

The Gardai will not take anyone's word or statement made previously, they will look at the whole sequence of events again.

Please stop now, the defensiveness because somebody used the words criminal and Varadkar in the same sentence is touching but pathetic at this stage.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Gardai will not take anyone's word or statement made previously, they will look at the whole sequence of events again.

Please stop now, the defensiveness because somebody used the words criminal and Varadkar in the same sentence is touching but pathetic at this stage.

Now now Francie,Im getting Dizzy
No amount of 'there there dear' posts by those who think someone should be in prison will make it happen
The only thing Gardaí have to determine is if the document was an official secret at the time
Thats all they are investigating
If it isn't,no crime and no persuance of Vradakar
Ive said that from the start
The only thing new Im expecting on this story is eventually a statement on the investigation being closed
As this is now the vradakar epic thread,Ill check in to see how ye are getting on denigrating him from time to time
Shouldnt be hard as most regular posters in this thread cant stand him or love him
Its all a bit meh to me tbh

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

Now now Francie,Im getting Dizzy
No amount of 'there there dear' posts by those who think someone should be in prison will make it happen
The only thing Gardaí have to determine is if the document was an official secret at the time
Thats all they are investigating
If it isn't,no crime and no persuance of Vradakar
Ive said that from the start
The only thing new Im expecting on this story is eventually a statement on the investigation being closed
As this is now the vradakar epic thread,Ill check in to see how ye are getting on denigrating him from time to time
Shouldnt be hard as most regular posters in this thread cant stand him or love him
Its all a bit meh to me tbh

More nonsense.
Nobody is suggesting Varadkar has been found guilty of a crime.

Gardai will not rely on statements made elsewhere, they will gather their own evidence, they always do. I was involved in a complaint made to my son's school. The school had investigated and taken statements, questioned pupils etc. The Gardai did it all again themselves.

Get over it, it is a criminal invesigation that may or may not find evidence of criminality

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More nonsense.
Nobody is suggesting Varadkar has been found guilty of a crime.

Gardai will not rely on statements made elsewhere, they will gather their own evidence, they always do. I was involved in a complaint made to my son's school. The school had investigated and taken statements, questioned pupils etc. The Gardai did it all again themselves.

Get over it, it is a criminal invesigation that may or may not find evidence of criminality

I suggest you get over it Francie
Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period
What we have here is an investigation into the veracity of an accusation brought to the Gardaí
A criminal investigation is an investigation into an actual crime
I'm surprised at the zealousy on this one,Vradakar would only be laughing at it
Saving grace here is he probably isnt a boardsie

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

I suggest you get over it Francie
Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period
What we have here is an investigation into the veracity of an accusation brought to the Gardaí
A criminal investigation is an investigation into an actual crime
I'm surprised at the zealousy on this one,Vradakar would only be laughing at it
Saving grace here is he probably isnt a boardsie

Internal Investigations Section – Investigations criminal incidents and possible suspicions of law breaking,

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/organised-serious-crime/garda-national-bureau-of-criminal-investigation/

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

I suggest you get over it Francie
Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period
What we have here is an investigation into the veracity of an accusation brought to the Gardaí
A criminal investigation is an investigation into an actual crime
I'm surprised at the zealousy on this one,Vradakar would only be laughing at it
Saving grace here is he probably isnt a boardsie

Folk have been working very hard to dismiss the whole affair.
Criminal or not he still did what he did.
Is the angle to claim people expect Varadkar to be sent to Folsom Prison so when it doesn't happen ye can pretend he is vindicated? I call shenanigans on that in advance.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Internal Investigations Section – Investigations criminal incidents and possible suspicions of law breaking,

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/organised-serious-crime/garda-national-bureau-of-criminal-investigation/

Yeah and doesnt that describe exactly determining if the document was an official secret
You've not added anything new there Francie
The complaint arises around the status of the document
The fascinating thing is,the complainant needs it to be a official secret,a moon high unachieveable bar I expect when its already released outside the cabinet
C'est la vie

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

Folk have been working very hard to dismiss the whole affair.
Criminal or not he still did what he did.
Is the angle to claim people expect Varadkar to be sent to Folsom Prison so when it doesn't happen ye can pretend he is vindicated? I call shenanigans on that in advance.

I think we were always agreed on what he did being not right
Im just saying following the criminal angle so tightly in this thread smacks of unfair trial
Its ott and wrong in my opinion even if it gives his haters a horn
Having a horn wont change the status of the document

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

Yeah and doesnt that describe exactly determining if the document was an official secret
You've not added anything new there Francie
The complaint arises around the status of the document
The fascinating thing is,the complainant needs it to be a official secret,a moon high unachieveable bar I expect when its already released outside the cabinet
C'est la vie

Dear lord, we pivot again.

The status of the document and the circumstances of it's release. The gardai will be required to investigate and take statements and examine them. They will not rely on what has been said elsewhere.

Give it up Nobotty, you were caught out spoofing on what a criminal investigation is.

Not particularly interested in the outcome f this, Varadkar has already admitted wrongdoing and the coalition partners circled the wagons to protect him. Damage done.