Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Dear lord, we pivot again.

The status of the document and the circumstances of it's release. The gardai will be required to investigate and take statements and examine them. They will not rely on what has been said elsewhere.

Give it up Nobotty, you were caught out spoofing on what a criminal investigation is.

Not particularly interested in the outcome f this, Varadkar has already admitted wrongdoing and the coalition partners circled the wagons to protect him. Damage done.

Im spoofing? Says who,you?
You're just shooting the messenger again because you dont like what he's saying
I actually dont mind you doing that

As regards wrong doing,we're on the same page there,always were
I'm just disinterested in poofing the story into a criminal investigation when it isnt
Some are,I get that
To each their own

Ten of Swords

Cute Hoor do not post in this thread again

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

Im spoofing? Says who,you?
You're just shooting the messenger again because you dont like what he's saying
I actually dont mind you doing that

As regards wrong doing,we're on the same page there,always were
I'm just disinterested in poofing the story into a criminal investigation when it isnt
Some are,I get that
To each their own

Yes, as the Garda website I quoted showed, this was a complete spoof:

Determining if a crime has happened in the first place is not a criminal investigation Period

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, as the Garda website I quoted showed, this was a complete spoof:

Lol Francie,You know you didnt prove that at all,you just shot at the messenger pointing that out to you
A complaint was made re the official secrets act,were you expecting the traffic corps to deal with it?
No impact at all on the stages of investigation,first being the veracity,port of call being the documents status
Nothing criminal untill that hurdle is leaped,as you probably know but dont want to admit it,itwont'I expect

James Brown

Nobotty wrote: »

I think we were always agreed on what he did being not right
Im just saying following the criminal angle so tightly in this thread smacks of unfair trial
Its ott and wrong in my opinion even if it gives his haters a horn
Having a horn wont change the status of the document

Like most things FG, it's mostly people dismissing or denying criticism that drags these things on. Most of us haven't put as much creative effort into it.
There's no trial. He's guilty of passing the confidential negotiation document.
Whether it was a crime or not is all that's to be discovered. It won't mean anything either way. FF/FG/Green don't want to upset the pensions apple cart.

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

Lol Francie,You know you didnt prove that at all,you just shot at the messenger pointing that out to you
A complaint was made re the official secrets act,were you expecting the traffic corps to deal with it?
No impact at all on the stages of investigation,first being the veracity,port of call being the documents status
Nothing criminal untill that hurdle is leaped,as you probably know but dont want to admit it,itwont'I expect

Again wholly wrong...two complaints have been made, one alleging corruption and the other alleging he broke the OSA. Although Simon Harris made statements in the Dáil he still had to give one to the Gardai and so will Varadkar if deemed necessary, as I stated.

Inform yourself properly Nobotty and then perhaps debate.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again wholly wrong...two complaints have been made, one alleging corruption and the other alleging he broke the OSA. Although Simon Harris made statements in the Dáil he still had to give one to the Gardai and so will Varadkar if deemed necessary, as I stated.

Inform yourself properly Nobotty and then perhaps debate.

Right back at you

You dont know what SH's statement was about
Its logical he gave a statement because he's the relevant minister, needed to verify the documument is or isnt cabinet exclusive
As always veracity of the complaint first,which means discover the documents status

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

Right back at you

You dont know what SH's statement was about
Its logical he gave a statement because he's the relevant minister, needed to verify the documument is or isnt cabinet exclusive
As always veracity of the complaint first,which means discover the documents status

I give up. As defensiveness goes you take the biscuit. You even breezed past the fact you didn't know there were 2 complaints, now you are parsing Harris's statement.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I give up. As defensiveness goes you take the biscuit. You even breezed past the fact you didn't know there were 2 complaints, now you are parsing Harris's statement.

There could be 22 complaints,it wouldnt make a halfworth of difference if they've no veracity
Veracity first

blanch152

It seems to me that the hysterical posters on this issue hyping up a routine GARDA enquiry into a full-blown criminal investigation are only doing so in order to allow themselves to scream corruption and undue influence when inevitably the Garda conclude that there was no crime.

The hatred of Leo runs deep in some.

markodaly

James Brown wrote: »

Folk have been working very hard to dismiss the whole affair.
Criminal or not he still did what he did.
Is the angle to claim people expect Varadkar to be sent to Folsom Prison so when it doesn't happen ye can pretend he is vindicated? I call shenanigans on that in advance.

Read back on the thread.
Many a regular poster had grand claims on what would happen to Leo, from being sent to jail to being sacked, to be out on his ear within the week the story broke.

None of those predictions came to pass, which is a sign that perhaps the story here isn't as big as some want to make it out to be. That is the reality of it.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Read back on the thread.
Many a regular poster had grand claims on what would happen to Leo, from being sent to jail to being sacked, to be out on his ear within the week the story broke.

None of those predictions came to pass, which is a sign that perhaps the story here isn't as big as some want to make it out to be. That is the reality of it.

No quotes from you either.

I don't recall anyone claiming he'd go to jail. Seemingly there were more than a few, so, quotes? He should have been 'resigned' IMO.

There were a few posters, possibly holding two pints, saying [insert made up stuff].

McMurphy

22nd Jan.

blanch152 wrote: »

A lie, a blatant lie.




This is a very good example of how fake news is created.

The Gardai are not investigating Varadkar.

March 5th.

blanch152 wrote: »

It seems to me that the hysterical posters on this issue hyping up a routine GARDA enquiry into a full-blown criminal investigation are only doing so in order to allow themselves to scream corruption and undue influence when inevitably the Garda conclude that there was no crime.

The hatred of Leo runs deep in some.

Shooting fish in a barrel.

markodaly

James Brown wrote: »

No quotes from you either.

I don't recall anyone claiming he'd go to jail.

s1ippy wrote: »

People seem to be overlooking the fact that there's a potential ten year jail term for what he did and there is more damning detail of his leaking to come.

joemurt wrote: »

Himself and the doctor who received the goods have to face honest consequences for their illegal behaviour. Jail time.

You are welcome.

There are plenty more 'predictions' from months back as well, none of which have come to pass.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

There are plenty more 'predictions' from months back as well, none of which have come to pass.

These ones in particular are crackers.

markodaly wrote: »

The story is done unless The Village is holding something major back which is unlikely given their amateur hour of releasing this story the weekend before a US presidential election. They are not a serious outfit.

Leo is not going to resign over this matter, no matter what you and the other chums think about it.

This story will be forgotten about in a few weeks, as we move into more Covid, Brexit matters, and who knows what will go on in the States.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

These ones in particular are crackers.

Am I wrong? Releasing this story the week of the US presidential election? Amateur stuff, but anyway.

The only people who care about this are some people on Twitter, some people on boards and other forums and The Village Magazine.

Granted it made the news when it was revealed that the Gardai were making preliminary enquires, as it's their job to do. But this story is done unless some other major revelation is brought to bare, which is not at all likely.

Nobotty

James Brown wrote: »

He should have been 'resigned' .

There isnt a hope in hell of that as he's negotiated 2 more years as Taoiseach for himself
2 years when the population will be fully vaccinated and Id expect our economy and the worlds to be roaring forward
To paraphrase haugheys description of Ahern 'the cleverest politician of them all'
Sinn Féin know this which is why their strategy is virulent towards him in particular as evidenced also by their more prominent supporters typical postings here
Whats super annoying is,he went into this declaring to be earlier happy to 'relish' going into opposition but instead 'stumbled' back into power and doubtless will express the same again in 2 years
Nothing goes on forever,there is that

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

There isnt a hope in hell of that as he's negotiated 2 more years as Taoiseach for himself
2 years when the population will be fully vaccinated and Id expect our economy and the worlds to be roaring forward
To paraphrase haugheys description of Ahern 'the cleverest politician of them all'
Sinn Féin know this which is why their strategy is virulent towards him in particular as evidenced also by their more prominent supporters typical postings here
Whats super annoying is,he went into this declaring to be earlier happy to 'relish' going into opposition but instead 'stumbled' back into power and doubtless will express the same again in 2 years
Nothing goes on forever,there is that

Oh lord...today is a 'SF want power' day. Makes a change from 'The Shinners don't want to be in power' days, I suppose. Variety being the spice of life and all that.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh lord...today is a 'SF want power' day. Makes a change from 'The Shinners don't want to be in power' days, I suppose. Variety being the spice of life and all that.

You can direct that at the mob Francie
I would suggest,like me instead of wringing your hands in frustration,you just get on with it as I presume you do want Sinn Féin in power

Rows Grower

Nobotty wrote: »

There isnt a hope in hell of that as he's negotiated 2 more years as Taoiseach for himself
2 years when the population will be fully vaccinated and Id expect our economy and the worlds to be roaring forward
To paraphrase haugheys description of Ahern 'the cleverest politician of them all'
Sinn Féin know this which is why their strategy is virulent towards him in particular as evidenced also by their more prominent supporters typical postings here
Whats super annoying is,he went into this declaring to be earlier happy to 'relish' going into opposition but instead 'stumbled' back into power and doubtless will express the same again in 2 years
Nothing goes on forever,there is that

Many's the slip twixt cup and lip.

There could well be another skeleton or two in Leo's cupboard that will emerge at a more crucial time.

Politics is a dirty game and he's crossed a lot of people.

blanch152

s1ippy wrote: »

If whoever leaked the story (I suspect Bowes) is willing to corroborate further and provide evidence, then I don't see why he won't face jail time. He should.

No doubt others have stories about leaks of this nature as well. He's likely pissed a load of people off down through the years. I have my fingers crossed that this is the end of him.

Usually I don't give a fiddler's about who is governing so long as they're reasonably competent. Not only is he incompetent, he's arrogant, smug, actively undermines everyone around him. He makes the country look bad. This scandal will be of great benefit to the country as it will see him removed from his position of influence and hopefully imprisoned.

Come on 2020, just do this one thing.

A prediction of jail time from Day 1 of the thread. How early can you get?

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Can show me evidence to the contrary? My opinion is that Leo Varadkar TD = A member of the Oireachtas. Leo Varadkar Taoiseach = Not a member of the Oireachtas.

I would love to hear the opinion of someone actually qualified to answer this question.

Here is another outstanding contribution equivalent to Schrodinger's Oireachtas.

markodaly wrote: »

You are welcome.

There are plenty more 'predictions' from months back as well, none of which have come to pass.

Exactly. We are still waiting to find out will there be a garda investigation, let alone a criminal prosecution. Can't see much priority being given to this.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

A prediction of jail time from Day 1 of the thread. How early can you get?





Here is another outstanding contribution equivalent to Schrodinger's Oireachtas.



Exactly. We are still waiting to find out will there be a garda investigation, let alone a criminal prosecution. Can't see much priority being given to this.

Leo may still do jail time. He is the subject of a criminal investigation. None of those posters are wrong - yet.

If evidence of corruption is found or evidence that he has broken the OSA by the Gardai, do you think he should face a trial blanch?

IngazZagni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Leo may still do jail time. He is the subject of a criminal investigation. None of those posters are wrong - yet.

If evidence of corruption is found or evidence that he has broken the OSA by the Gardai, do you think he should face a trial blanch?

This is incorrect. It is not a criminal investigation. It is a preliminary investigation to see if a crime may have taken place. It is being done because a member of the public made a complaint to the gardai and the gardai are obliged to investigate it.

FrancieBrady

IngazZagni wrote: »

This is incorrect. It is not a criminal investigation. It is a preliminary investigation to see if a crime may have taken place. It is being done because a member of the public made a complaint to the gardai and the gardai are obliged to investigate it.

Sigh>
The gardai are investigating if a crime has been committed i.e. a criminal investigation - which may or may not find evidence of criminality on two counts and which may or may not lead to the Tanaiste going to jail.
All true - all factual.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Leo may still do jail time. He is the subject of a criminal investigation. None of those posters are wrong - yet.

If evidence of corruption is found or evidence that he has broken the OSA by the Gardai, do you think he should face a trial blanch?

If being the operative word of wishfull thinking and NO he is not currently the subject of a criminal investigation

FrancieBrady

Nobotty wrote: »

If being the operative word of wishfull thinking and NO he is not currently the subject of a criminal investigation

Absolutely 'if' is the operative word. It's an investigation and the Gardai do not 'convict' but gather evidence after a criminal investigation.

You cannot, whether you are a civilian or Garda, investigate the veracity of a claim without investigating the circumstances, who did what and who said what.

Leo claiming innocence or you claiming it on his behalf, won't wash when it goes this far.

IngazZagni

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sigh>
The gardai are investigating if a crime has been committed i.e. a criminal investigation - which may or may not find evidence of criminality on two counts and which may or may not lead to the Tanaiste going to jail.
All true - all factual.

Incorrect. It's a preliminary investigation. If the Gardai feel there could be a crime committed then it will proceed to a formal criminal investigation.

FrancieBrady

IngazZagni wrote: »

Incorrect. It's a preliminary investigation.

What are they looking for in this preliminary investigation?

Evidence that crimes may have been committed. Therefore it is a criminal investigation which may or may not lead to finding evidence that a crime was committed.

Please stop with the pedantry to defend/protect. Leo got himself here by the wrongdoing he has confessed to already.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Leo claiming innocence or you claiming it on his behalf, won't wash when it goes this far.

So guilty untill proven innocent,I see
Have you moved to North Korea?

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are they looking for in this preliminary investigation?

Evidence that crimes may have been committed. Therefore it is a criminal investigation which may or may not lead to finding evidence that a crime was committed.

Please stop with the pedantry to defend/protect. Leo got himself here by the wrongdoing he has confessed to already.

As said to you last night,a persons right to their good name isnt so brittle that someone who actually isnt au fait with the status of a document can have it removed simply by that someone claiming it was still subject to the official secrets act

The veracity has to be established first
No official secret,No crime
As the document already left the cabinet and was being circulated among private citizens,I expect thats that
No amount of wishfull thinking will change it
Gardaí have to investigate every complaint reported to them,however frivolous