Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

As people are right to call out the hypocrisy of FG it works both ways but you can't or more than likely don't want to see that. Also constantly bringing Northern Ireland into every single thread just to take things off topic or deflect from what the thread is about is not working either. Deal with the issues in this state first. I have no interest what goes on in Northern Ireland, i do care about what happens in this state and the behavior of the partys in Dail Eireann.

100% this..There's a certain level of expectation that hard working people expect of elected representatives, FG are now saying what then?? "we're the lesser of many evils" party? so if the opposition was Al Queda then FG could do anything short of murder because LOOK OVER THERE!!!

If he's so virtuous and upstanding his actions would never even been described as the PULLING OF STRINGS FOR ME BIG TIME!!!..stuff by his friend.

Floppybits

blanch152 wrote: »

The exact same cannot be said of FF and FG, as they are not simultaneously following two different policies in two different jurisdictions.

I see they didn't vote in favour of same-sex marriage in the Assembly last week.

So what you are saying then is that FG and FF have abandoned all interest in Northern Ireland and the only time they are interested is when it is useful as stick to try gain some political points over a party that has an interest in both jurisdictions? Just to be clear on that as FG and FF have no representation at all in Northern Ireland so I don't know why supporters keep commenting on it.

jammiedodgers

The document was not confidential, it was not a Cabinet document, it was a memo, the details of which were already in the public domain having been reported in the media, he said.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/varadkar-says-gardai-have-not-told-him-he-is-under-investigation-1096914.html


Can anyone explain to me why he apologised for leaking a document that was already in the public domain?

Floppybits

jammiedodgers wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/varadkar-says-gardai-have-not-told-him-he-is-under-investigation-1096914.html


Can anyone explain to me why he apologised for leaking a document that was already in the public domain?

This is what I don't understand if the document was public why didn't Varadkar just ask one of his many many staff to send him the document via the proper channels why use back channels at all?

Also the reaction the union that received the copy of the agreement seemed to indicate that it was still confidential and they should not have got it.

smurgen

jammiedodgers wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/varadkar-says-gardai-have-not-told-him-he-is-under-investigation-1096914.html


Can anyone explain to me why he apologised for leaking a document that was already in the public domain?

If the document was in the public domain why didn't he get the second copy from a public source?

timmyntc

smurgen wrote: »

If the document was in the public domain why didn't he get the second copy from a public source?

If the document was in the public domain, why would then Minister for Health Simon Harris be refused a copy?

thomas 123

timmyntc wrote: »

If the document was in the public domain, why would then Minister for Health Simon Harris be refused a copy?

If it was in the interest of the nation why didn’t he post it directly to all interested union parties.

dontmindme

thomas 123 wrote: »

If it was in the interest of the nation why didn’t he post it directly to all interested union parties.

<<Mod Snip>>

Ted_YNWA

dontmindme wrote: »

He wanted to help the other gay in the village Maitiu O'Tuathail.

Mod

Bring your homophobic "jokes" somewhere other than Boards.

Do not post in thread again.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Yeap, some Trumpian conspiracy akin to stealing an election or hiding news stories akin to Pizzagate or something.
I've asked a few posters to explain some of their posts regarding this line of questioning and conspiracy-lite claims, with little success.

But the narrative is nice and cuddly for those who don't like the government parties, the government/Leo/FG/someone is telling the Irish Times or RTE what stories to run or not run, with no proof mind. The proof isn't needed anymore to make such claims, the claims themselves are enough.

Don't know if they are bias against SF, but all media is biased in one form or another.
In the last week of the 2020 election run up, one day the Irish Times had the four top stories about the Paul Quinn murder, his families reactions, the IRA controlling SF and Lyra McKee featured in an IRA retrospective. I'd call that bias.
Both RTE and the Times failed to cover Varadkar leaking to a pal until they could no longer ignore it. They also failed to report on Varadkar being a person of interest in a criminal investigation, which IMO is a massive political story. So you can take or leave that as bias of course.
Opinions based on facts are valid. They may be wrong, they may be right. We'd a lad only yesterday claim RTE wasn't biased on behalf of FG because it was biased on behalf of FF
I know Tubbs is pro FF. Before the crash, he had a cosy FF chat with some FF'er every other week from O'Dea to Mammy O'Rourke.

There are people who do well in society from business, organisations to politics. This is nothing unusual. Stands to reason there'd be a protectionist element who don't want the boat rocked. Simple as that.

James Brown

jmcc wrote: »

About Varadkar's connection with Trump and that planning permission...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/varadkar-reveals-aid-he-gave-to-trump-over-doonbeg-golf-course-1.3428608

Regards...jmcc

'SF don't like white people' was the biggest Trumpian move, (a tweet ffs) by any Irish politician.

RandomViewer

Calleary and Cowen would have basis for unfair dismissal if Varadkar stays, FF TDs seem to have gone to ground as they know this is costing them votes every minute it continues

James Brown

TheCitizen wrote: »

Varadkar’s position is entirely untenable. Disgusting to watch Jennifer MacNeill get aggressive in support of him. The weak media uncomfortable in due diligence of this. Poor stuff.

This chancer can not continue as Tanaiste and return as Taoiseach.

During year on year record breaking housing crises she was the FG housing advisor. Her husband was then head of Goldman Sachs investments in property in Ireland.
She's also the one bullied and blackmailed a FG candidate telling him to withdraw his candidacy or she'd shop him to FG HQ over a snapchat post.
If she was working for the public or party good, she would have shopped him.

She is not a decent public representative, but the epitome of FG IMO.

RandomViewer

James Brown wrote: »

'SF don't like white people' was the biggest Trumpian move, (a tweet ffs) by any Irish politician.

His blatant sectarianism last week would have seen him get the boot from anywhere else, but when you have a Green minister who goes around shouting " hey n×××××" what else do you expect

RandomViewer

James Brown wrote: »

During year on year record breaking housing crises she was the FG housing advisor. Her husband was then head of Goldman Sachs investments in property in Ireland.
She's also the one bullied and blackmailed a FG candidate telling him to withdraw his candidacy or she'd shop him to FG HQ over a snapchat post.
If she was working for the public or party good, she would have shopped him.

She is not a decent public representative, but the epitome of FG IMO.

Pound shop Maggie Thatcher,

costacorta

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Weird analogy, did the IRA leak many documents before kneecapping or is it your position that once the current government don't get involved with an illegal army they can do what they like.

I’d say Stakeknife was changing a lot of documents before he ordered the kneecapping and murders to make sure Gerry wasn’t suspicious of him .

shatners bassoon

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Well, if you want to look at things objectively, then acknowledge that SF is only trying to pull this stunt now knowing full well that the Garda / DPP investigation is going to end up concluding that no crime was committed.

If they are so sure otherwise, then why not wait and use the political capital with an actual charge behind it? I saw Matt Carty on TV trying to suggest that they are making a political charge as if there is such an actual thing or try to convince some of their dumber supporters that such a thing exists.

What this is, is SF continuing their tradition of kangaroo court trials.

So your response to me calling out the Varadkar fan boys in this thread for letting their hatred of SF cloud the issue is to write a reply which relates entirely to...SF.

Like I said, embarrassing.

jmcc

TheCitizen wrote: »

Why is Varadkar deemed untouchable?

It is a political version of the Sunk Cost Fallacy. FG and its suppporters have spent so much time on promoting Varadkar as the face of a new "caring" FG that appeals to the Wokus Dei types in the media who are activists rather than journalists that they consider him to be a valuable leader rather than a political liability on whom they have wasted time, money and effort. To them, he is politically more valuable simply because they have spent that time money and effort promoting him.

His installation as leader of FG was a cynical exercise in box ticking (half Indian son of an immigrant who also happened to be gay). The logic was that he would not be criticised in the media in the same way as previous FG leaders like Kenny, Noonan and Bruton. The FG grassroots wanted Coveney but the FG Oireachtas wanted their candidate and got him. He turned out to be one of the worst and most incompetent FG leaders who led FG to one of its worst GE defeats ever.

Since FG had spent so much political capital on promoting him as the face of a new FG, it could not immediately get rid of him. Then Covid happened and gave him and FG a lifeline. FGers doubled down on protecting him.

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

James Brown wrote: »

Don't know if they are bias against SF, but all media is biased in one form or another.
In the last week of the 2020 election run up, one day the Irish Times had the four top stories about the Paul Quinn murder, his families reactions, the IRA controlling SF and Lyra McKee featured in an IRA retrospective. I'd call that bias.
Both RTE and the Times failed to cover Varadkar leaking to a pal until they could no longer ignore it. They also failed to report on Varadkar being a person of interest in a criminal investigation, which IMO is a massive political story. So you can take or leave that as bias of course.
Opinions based on facts are valid. They may be wrong, they may be right. We'd a lad only yesterday claim RTE wasn't biased on behalf of FG because it was biased on behalf of FF
I know Tubbs is pro FF. Before the crash, he had a cosy FF chat with some FF'er every other week from O'Dea to Mammy O'Rourke.

There are people who do well in society from business, organisations to politics. This is nothing unusual. Stands to reason there'd be a protectionist element who don't want the boat rocked. Simple as that.

So, that in essence is a very long admission that, No, there is no proof that FG/Leo/Da Gubermnet have editorial control over any media outlet.

Remember, I asked for proof, not long winded storytelling.

SmokyMo

As Non-Irish person looking in.. I find it bizarre that people use IRA actions as an argument against SF. Weren't FF / FG complicit in helping catholic church to cover up murders/deaths of 10 000 + babies and children as recent as few decades ago?

If anyone can explain this to me, that would be much appreciated.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

So, that in essence is a very long admission that, No, there is no proof that FG/Leo/Da Gubermnet have editorial control over any media outlet.

Remember, I asked for proof, not long winded storytelling.

The facts are there. Remember I said it's for you to form an opinion? Kinda my whole point.
I do not have a signed and notarised declaration from the Irish Times or RTE stating they are biased, no :rolleyes:

RandomViewer

markodaly wrote: »

So, that in essence is a very long admission that, No, there is no proof that FG/Leo/Da Gubermnet have editorial control over any media outlet.

Remember, I asked for proof, not long winded storytelling.

Redacted still pulling" droit de seigneur" on new candidates would be a form of control

James Brown

SmokyMo wrote: »

As Non-Irish person looking in.. I find it bizarre that people use IRA actions as an argument against SF. Weren't FF / FG complicit in helping catholic church to cover up murders/deaths of 10 000 + babies and children as recent as few decades ago?

If anyone can explain this to me, that would be much appreciated.

It's desperation. Rather than discuss current affairs, they need drag up incidents, which of course opens them up too to past events, but as I say, desperate.

skimpydoo

I am an Irish Citizen who moved back here in 1996. My father was an FF supporter. So when I voted in 1997 and 2002 I voted FF. In 2005 I changed my constituency in Dublin and I knew that FF was ****ing up the country. I saw one of my local councilors appeared to be very active so I gave Lucinda Creighton my only vote with no second, third, or fourth preferences.

In 2011 I knew I could not vote FF, FG, or Labour so I voted independent, Paul Sommerville and Dylan Haskins. in 2016 I voted Social Democrats. in the last election, I voted SF and then SD. I did not want what we now have in power.

We need a change in this country, where we can have a government with no ties to big business, banks, finance, and the Judiciary. If SF **** can they **** up as bad as FF, FG and labour have down the years? If they do a bad job we vote them out. Why are people scared of them being in government when for the past 100 years we have had shysters all out for themselves and their pals.

Why are people so readily willing to vote for a party that bankrupted the country and for a party whose members jump ship to become lobbyists?

To those of you who bring up SF's track record in the north, you conveniently forget to mention that their hands are tied because they are in coalition with the DUP.

FF has had 2 TD's rightly resign over Golfgate so it's not too much for Leo to step aside until the Gardai investigation is complete. If the Gardai conclude Leo has nothing to answer for he can go right back in as Taniste and the government portfolios he had.

Leo is arrogant and will never do the right thing until he is forced to.

jmcc

SmokyMo wrote: »

As Non-Irish person looking in.. I find it bizarre that people use IRA actions as an argument against SF. Weren't FF / FG complicit in helping catholic church to cover up murders/deaths of 10 000 + babies and children as recent as few decades ago?

If anyone can explain this to me, that would be much appreciated.

Irish politics was, for years, dominated by the two main parties of FF and FG with a second party called Labour that used to make up the numbers for a coalition government. The coalition governments used to bounce between being led by FF or FG. That 2.5 party model began to break down. All during that time, SF struggled to even get a single candidate elected and generally only got less than 5% of the vote in General Elections. Once the Troubles were over and the Good Friday Agreement was signed, support for SF started to grow. Support for Labour peaked in 2011 but it was highly abnormal due to the Bank bailouts and the collapse of FF support. Labour proved to be even more Right-wing than FG when in government with FG. This led to the number of Labour seats collapsing from 37 in 2011 to 7 in 2016 and it only won 6 seats in the 2020 GE. SF had moved into the Left and centre Left part of the political spectrum that had been deserted by Labour and FF. In the 2020 GE, this left FF,FG and Labour competing for the centre Right and Right vote while leaving the centre Left and Left vote largely to SF. SF managed to win the same number of seats as FG and won more seats than FG. FG keeps bringing up the Troubles despite the GFA having been signed in 1998 and that's almost a generation ago now.

Others point out that FG has its own dark past with a faction of FG fighting in the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) on the same side as the Nazis (the Blueshirts). It also wasn't helped by one of its TDs praising Hitler's actions against the Jews. His son is also an FG TD and wanted to commemorate the Black and Tans and Auxillaries (British terrorists in the Irish War of Independence) who were members of the Royal Irish Constabulary (an armed British paramilitary force that was used to police Ireland). This directly led to FG going from 30% in the opinion polls in late 2019 to getting 20% in the February 2020 GE. FG has a history of poor leadership choices. FG often claim to be the party of Micheal Collins (one of the main leaders in the Irish War of Independence) but he was long dead when Fine Gael was formed.

SF has more seats than FG and has more support. Now it has a leader (Varadkar) who has admitted to leaking a confidential document to a friend. SF, being the main opposition party is relentless in pursuit of Varadkar and FG over this. FF and the Greens cannot say anything because they are in government with FG. So FGers keep trying to bring up the Troubles and the actions of the PIRA during that time to distract people.

Regards...jmcc

Brendan Bendar

skimpydoo wrote: »

I am an Irish Citizen who moved back here in 1996. My father was an FF supporter. So when I voted in 1997 and 2002 I voted FF. In 2005 I changed my constituency in Dublin and I knew that FF was ****ing up the country. I saw one of my local councilors appeared to be very active so I gave Lucinda Creighton my only vote with no second, third, or fourth preferences.

In 2011 I knew I could not vote FF, FG, or Labour so I voted independent, Paul Sommerville and Dylan Haskins. in 2016 I voted Social Democrats. in the last election, I voted SF and then SD. I did not want what we now have in power.

We need a change in this country, where we can have a government with no ties to big business, banks, finance, and the Judiciary. If SF **** can they **** up as bad as FF, FG and labour have down the years? If they do a bad job we vote them out. Why are people scared of them being in government when for the past 100 years we have had shysters all out for themselves and their pals.

Why are people so readily willing to vote for a party that bankrupted the country and for a party whose members jump ship to become lobbyists?

To those of you who bring up SF's track record in the north, you conveniently forget to mention that their hands are tied because they are in coalition with the DUP.

FF has had 2 TD's rightly resign over Golfgate so it's not too much for Leo to step aside until the Gardai investigation is complete. If the Gardai conclude Leo has nothing to answer for he can go right back in as Taniste and the government portfolios he had.

Leo is arrogant and will never do the right thing until he is forced to.

In my opinion you have a lot to learn......... sorry to burst your bubble.

Things get done with folk trusting your leadership, paying your debts, and looking after the people who employ people, take the risks, keep the SMEs happy.

The alternative is a bunch of idealists who just want a UI and they don’t give a toss how the folk of Middle Ireland get on.

These people want everyone struggling, the harder you work the more you pay in taxes to prop up those who do nothing to advance themselves, those who depend on the State cradle to grave.

That’s how it will pan out folks...if SF get into power... make no mistake about that.

thomas 123

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

In my opinion you have a lot to learn......... sorry to burst your bubble.

Things get done with folk trusting your leadership, paying your debts, and looking after the people who employ people, take the risks, keep the SMEs happy.

The alternative is a bunch of idealists who just want a UI and they don’t give a toss how the folk of Middle Ireland get on.

These people want everyone struggling, the harder you work the more you pay in taxes to prop up those who do nothing to advance themselves, those who depend on the State cradle to grave.

That’s how it will pan out folks...if SF get into power... make no mistake about that.

Ah yes those who work hard are so well rewarded currently right?

Massive taxes, a health system on its knees for all of my life, sky high rents, mortgages that will saddle anyone capable of getting them with a massive debt for life. The elderly being forced to work on longer into their golden years then to sign their homes over to nursing homes to see them out.

So great.

golfball37

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

In my opinion you have a lot to learn......... sorry to burst your bubble.

Things get done with folk trusting your leadership, paying your debts, and looking after the people who employ people, take the risks, keep the SMEs happy.

The alternative is a bunch of idealists who just want a UI and they don’t give a toss how the folk of Middle Ireland get on.

These people want everyone struggling, the harder you work the more you pay in taxes to prop up those who do nothing to advance themselves, those who depend on the State cradle to grave.

That’s how it will pan out folks...if SF get into power... make no mistake about that.

We know that and Leo Varadkar is their single biggest usp and vote getter. The amount of people I know who voted sf last year was scary, their backgrounds and families were all fg in the main. Why can’t the membership see what he is doing to the country?

maccored

costacorta wrote: »

I’d say Stakeknife was changing a lot of documents before he ordered the kneecapping and murders to make sure Gerry wasn’t suspicious of him .

the ira kept documentation? - thats hilarious :pac::pac::D:D

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

I guess some people are sick of the blatant hypocrisy. The issue with Gerry Adams and his arrest and investigation into the murder and kidnapping of Jean McConville was well documented and was covered yesterday by numerous programs. If SF and other political parties in the Dail were not asking for Gerry Adams to step down as leader of SF then, while the PSNI concluded their investigation, into, let's be fair a far far more serious matter, then why now should Leo have to step aside for this investigation?

People are right to call out this hypocrisy, IMO.

theres a difference in being accused of something, then investigated and proven to be innocent than doing actually something that you admit to, then having the legality of doing it being investigated .