Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

RandomName2

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Great, so there's no doubt that they directly benefitted from Leo leaking it to them. That's one of the requirements for corruption in office.

Well the members of the union certainly benefited insofar that they would know in advance what sort of contract they would be obliged to follow in relation to community healthcare. It is hard to see how NAGP itself would benefit: it was no longer able to conclude contracts, and blamed the government for no longer being financially viable. They implied corruption in relation to the relationship between the IMO and government.

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

By whom? Not by Varadkar seemingly.

Well yes it was. Varadkar introduced the under 6's medical cards. NAGP objected to this introduction. In retaliation NAGP was frozen out of all further negotiations.


I think that's a more serious issue than the GP agreement being circulated to NAGP. The GP agreement should always have been circulated to the people it would affect. NAGP should not have been frozen out of the negotiations.


I also feel that under 6's shouldn't have been given medical cards in the first place. It seems daft that a five year old sees a GP for free but a 7 year old is charged €65 for a 10 minute visit. It's a minor thing, but it's really the event that set all this off.



I don't know whether the treatment of NAGP was felt as necessary for optics by Varadkar. He certainly seemed to regret the way it panned out, and was apparently trying to mend bridges. Maybe he felt that the window of opportunity to do so was brief given the inevitable demise of NAGP.

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

You're right, but at the time they seemed pretty happy about getting this on the WhatsApp group.

Having the boardroom door slammed in your face and then having a note with the salient aspects of the boardroom decision slipped under the door by the person who had slammed the door would give cause for some minor celebration I suppose. Matt Ó'Tuathail also seemed to be trying to swing the other members of NAGP to support Varadkar (or at least change their view of him on the back of this apparent benevolence) whilst also being cock-a-hoop at his own importance in the matter.

RandomName2

TheCitizen wrote: »

The threats are from Loyalist paramilitaries. Are they focusing on him because of his sexuality?

Well his sexuality would certainly be grist to their mills. Paramilitaries tend to have a large dollop of machismo.


Like [not mentioning any party] attacking Varadkar due to his popularity, the loyalists will presumably be attacking the most popular and powerful politician in the Republic [excluding the party that will not be named]. Perhaps the loyalists don't see any point in attacking the leader of [the party that will not be named] because [the party that will not be named] is in government in Northern Ireland, thereby affording its leader a large degree of insulation. Furthermore Leo's party is a 'foreign' party as far as the loyalists are concerned, granting further motive.


The loyalists would care no more about the leak than [the party that will not be named] but they are not terribly politically literate, so are unlikely to use that as a weapon in this case. Given their form it would more likely be a car-bomb.

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well his sexuality would certainly be grist to their mills. Paramilitaries tend to have a large dollop of machismo.


Like [not mentioning any party] attacking Varadkar due to his popularity, the loyalists will presumably be attacking the most popular and powerful politician in the Republic [excluding the party that will not be named]. Perhaps the loyalists don't see any point in attacking the leader of [the party that will not be named] because [the party that will not be named] is in government in Northern Ireland, thereby affording its leader a large degree of insulation. Furthermore Leo's party is a 'foreign' party as far as the loyalists are concerned, granting further motive.


The loyalists would care no more about the leak than [the party that will not be named] but they are not terribly politically literate, so are unlikely to use that as a weapon in this case. Given their form it would more likely be a car-bomb.

What are you talking about?

RandomViewer

Wonder will a few newspaper editors get their collars felt for trying to influence an investigation,

Johnthemanager

TheCitizen wrote: »

Been very critical of Leo Varadkar in this affair, however I see he’s had credible death threats and needs constant Gardai supervision as a result which is disturbing. Maybe there’s a thread on it?

The threats are from Loyalist paramilitaries. Are they focusing on him because of his sexuality?

I wouldn't say so, I'd say it's more to do with them generally being scumbags who are stoking up tensions in the North!

RandomViewer

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well his sexuality would certainly be grist to their mills. Paramilitaries tend to have a large dollop of machismo.


Like [not mentioning any party] attacking Varadkar due to his popularity, the loyalists will presumably be attacking the most popular and powerful politician in the Republic [excluding the party that will not be named]. Perhaps the loyalists don't see any point in attacking the leader of [the party that will not be named] because [the party that will not be named] is in government in Northern Ireland, thereby affording its leader a large degree of insulation. Furthermore Leo's party is a 'foreign' party as far as the loyalists are concerned, granting further motive.


The loyalists would care no more about the leak than [the party that will not be named] but they are not terribly politically literate, so are unlikely to use that as a weapon in this case. Given their form it would more likely be a car-bomb.

They usually needed help with those

RandomViewer

I Am The Law wrote: »

"Leo is Toast" says old Mr. Brennan.

FG headquarters ordering extra butter and marmalade

Brendan Bendar

RandomViewer wrote: »

Wonder will a few newspaper editors get their collars felt for trying to influence an investigation,

Would they have enough cell space for them.

This investigation on Varadkar in my opinion is being spurred on by a large coterie in the media.

RandomViewer

TheCitizen wrote: »

What are you talking about?

They've decided to conflate the Loyalist Brexit death threat against Varadkar and Coveney with Varadkars leaking of documents, two completely different stories ,

Kermit.de.frog

RandomViewer wrote: »

They've decided to conflate the Loyalist Brexit death threat against Varadkar and Coveney with Varadkars leaking of documents, two completely different stories ,

Have they?

It specifically mentions right wing elements and not loyalists in the first instance.

McMurphy

RandomViewer wrote: »

They've decided to conflate the Loyalist Brexit death threat against Varadkar and Coveney with Varadkars leaking of documents, two completely different stories ,

Indeed. The former has been aired and covered since January.

RandomViewer

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Would they have enough cell space for them.

This investigation on Varadkar in my opinion is being spurred on by a large coterie in the media.

Its like Seanie, all over again, so much out there claim he can't get a fair trial, dont think it'll wash this time

McMurphy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Have they?

It specifically mentions right wing elements and not loyalists in the first instance.

4 days ago......

RandomViewer

McMurphy wrote: »

4 days ago......

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

Kermit.de.frog

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

McMurphy

jackboy wrote: »

So now we have moved on from paddy cosgrove to loyalists as a distraction to Leo leaking the document.

Yep......

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'man of honour' who neglected to give this information to the Dáil? He's as bad as Leo if he is now angling for the top job using this.

If you’d watched the Dail debate, you’d know that he did actually say that he was asked but declined. He also said that he hadn’t seen the document even though Leo had gotten it from Simons department of health.

RandomName2

TheCitizen wrote: »

What are you talking about?

What parts did you have trouble with? Where did your misunderstanding began? Help me, to help you.

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't know whether the treatment of NAGP was felt as necessary for optics by Varadkar. He certainly seemed to regret the way it panned out, and was apparently trying to mend bridges. Maybe he felt that the window of opportunity to do so was brief given the inevitable demise of NAGP.

Of course now that I think about it, presumably it was a former member of NAGP who was still pissed off with Varadkar, who leaked the WhatsApp messages in the first place.



Falling into the river in the attempt to mend bridges.

RandomName2

jackboy wrote: »

So now we have moved on from paddy cosgrove to loyalists as a distraction to Leo leaking the document.

Yep......

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

If you’d watched the Dail debate, you’d know that he did actually say that he was asked but declined. He also said that he hadn’t seen the document even though Leo had gotten it from Simons department of health.

He never said that somebody other than O'Toole asked him. He is very plainly reported to have said the word 'also' in that article.

That is why this is news and that is why I am accusing Harris of not being truthful in the Dáil. If he did neglect to say this then he too is damaged goods.

super_furry

Think we're seeing the beginning of the end for Leo. Kate O'Connell on Brendan O'Connor there just threw him under the bus.

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

Think we're seeing the beginning of the end for Leo. Kate O'Connell on Brendan O'Connor there just threw him under the bus.

What did she say?

NVM it's being reported here, she certainly turned on him. Leo is toast

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40248440.html

RandomViewer

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

Look up Liam Cosgrave, was Taoiseach (and possible MI5 asset) in the 70s,

JeffKenna

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG having trouble accepting that their beloved Loyalists who they've been in bed with since the 70s have turned on them

It must be hitting John Bruton very hard.

RandomViewer

JeffKenna wrote: »

It must be hitting John Bruton very hard.

He can hang his hat on the knighthood now

McMurphy

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Wow. Certainly an interesting interpretation of that article from you Francie. No wonder you think there is new information in it. That's not how it reads at all though.

To me it is very clearly saying that he was also contacted by O'Toole, separate to Varadkar being contacted by O'Toole. As we knew.

I can see now why you were so confused with my posts though, certainly clears it up.

Seems O'Toole asked more than just Simon and Leo. My guess is this where the whistleblower fits in.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

This thread is about Varadkar. Take all discussion of political parties to the relevant threads

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Explain.

Good old Shinner nonsense.

Sinn Fein are administering British rule in NI on behalf of Her Majesty's Government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Fine Gael meanwhile has done more in the last 4 years for nationalists than SF and their terrorist friends in 40 years of chaos and murder.

That's a fact.

RandomViewer wrote: »

Look up Liam Cosgrave, was Taoiseach (and possible MI5 asset) in the 70s,

JeffKenna wrote: »

It must be hitting John Bruton very hard.

RandomViewer wrote: »

He can hang his hat on the knighthood now

The above posters are now threadbanned (except the one at the very top!)

Muahahaha

McMurphy wrote: »

Seems O'Toole asked more than just Simon and Leo. My guess is this where the whistleblower fits in.

This is all on the whistleblower and that Sunday Times article had a couple of new tidbits contained within it that tell us more about whats been going on

1. Senior civil servants in Simon Harris Dept of Health are negotiating the new GP contract (worth 200 million odd) with the IMO
2. Harris (their boss) asks them for a copy of the contract. The senior civil servants refuse to give it to him "because of the sensitivity of the negotiations". This shows the importance of the document to the very civil servants who were working for months on it, it also shows that they didnt trust Simon Harris not to leak it himself. He is their boss and they were refusing to give it to him.
3. O'Tuathill, having tried to get it from Harris himself now turns to Leo. The contract is then leaked from a senior civil servant in the Dept of Health to another senior civil servant in Leos Dept of the Taoiseach who then passes it onto Leo himself who puts it in a taxi to o'Tuathills house.
4. Whistleblower (presumably a senior civil servant in Harris' Dept. of Health who is pissed off that all his work on highly secretive negotiations is getting leaked to a rival union to the IMO) makes a protected disclosure to the Gardai who do a scoping exercise. This exercise includes detectives interviewing Simon Harris in his office and telling him he may be a witness to a crime.
5. Scoping exercise concludes and Gardai open full scale criminal investigation into Leo the Leak. The upgrade is because of what the whisteblower told them and what Simon Harris told them.

This is very serious stuff at the very top level of government. We have senior civil servants who dont even trust their own Minister with a document, we have at least two senior civil servants who went rogue and leaked it at Leos orders anyway and now we've another senior civil servant who has blown the whistle on the whole sorry mess. And then Leo going behind Harris' back to get one of his officials to get it leaked out of the Dept of Health.

Its noteworthy that the two civil servants who facilitated the leak have not yet been interviewed by the Gardai, just like Leo himself. So it would seem that they too are under criminal investigation. If they end up facing criminal charges over an order from Leo Id say there will be absolute ructions in the civil service.

skimpydoo

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is all on the whistleblower and that Sunday Times article had a couple of new tidbits contained within it that tell us more about whats been going on

1. Senior civil servants in Simon Harris Dept of Health are negotiating the new GP contract (worth 200 million odd) with the IMO
2. Harris (their boss) asks them for a copy of the contract. The senior civil servants refuse to give it to him "because of the sensitivity of the negotiations". This shows the importance of the document to the very civil servants who were working for months on it, it also shows that they didnt trust Simon Harris not to leak it himself. He is their boss and they were refusing to give it to him.
3. O'Tuathill, having tried to get it from Harris himself now turns to Leo. The contract is then leaked from a senior civil servant in the Dept of Health to another senior civil servant in Leos Dept of the Taoiseach who then passes it onto Leo himself who puts it in a taxi to o'Tuathills house.
4. Whistleblower (presumably a senior civil servant in Harris' Dept. of Health who is pissed off that all his work on highly secretive negotiations is getting leaked to a rival union to the IMO) makes a protected disclosure to the Gardai who do a scoping exercise. This exercise includes detectives interviewing Simon Harris in his office and telling him he may be a witness to a crime.
5. Scoping exercise concludes and Gardai open full scale criminal investigation into Leo the Leak. The upgrade is because of what the whisteblower told them and what Simon Harris told them.

This is very serious stuff at the very top level of government. We have senior civil servants who dont even trust their own Minister with a document, we have at least two senior civil servants who went rogue and leaked it at Leos orders anyway and now we've another senior civil servant who has blown the whistle on the whole sorry mess. And then Leo going behind Harris' back to get one of his officials to get it leaked out of the Dept of Health.

Its noteworthy that the two civil servants who facilitated the leak have not yet been interviewed by the Gardai, just like Leo himself. So it would seem that they too are under criminal investigation. If they end up facing criminal charges over an order from Leo Id say there will be absolute ructions in the civil service.

This describes what happened in a nutshell. So any FG/Leo supporter on here care to try and defend this? None of the above mentions SF so don't try and muddy the waters by bringing them into it.

Muahahaha

skimpydoo wrote: »

This describes what happened in a nutshell. So any FG/Leo on here care to try and defend this? None of the above mentions SF so don't try and muddy the waters by bringing them into it.

I was just wondering where the FG heads are now to continue on their tall stories that a document literally marked on the front page 'Confidential- Not for Circulation' wasnt actually a confidential document at all :rolleyes:

Now it turns out that it was so confidential that even Simon Harris' own civil servants were refusing to give him a copy.