Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

jmcc

So when will Leo the Leak be interviewed by the Gardai?

Regards...jmcc

Plumbthedepths

skimpydoo wrote: »

I would also like to know who gave Leo his legal advice and what did they exactly tell him?

Maybe the same individual that advised Maria Bailey prehaps? She got sound advice, worked out well for her.

skimpydoo

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Maybe the same individual that advised Maria Bailey prehaps? She got sound advice, worked out well for her.

Madigan?

Plumbthedepths

skimpydoo wrote: »

Madigan?

Who knows, but good legal advice seems to be in short supply.

blanch152

skimpydoo wrote: »

Some important things to note.

If Leo has done no wrong as he claims, why did Michael Martin not ask the AJ?

If Leo is innocent then you know the AJ will rubber-stamp this.

I think it's because he knew he would get an answer he would not like to hear.

If Leo gets charged this question is bound to pop up.

I would also like to know who gave Leo his legal advice and what did they exactly tell him?

What is the AJ?

Johnthemanager

blanch152 wrote: »

What is the AJ?

Attorney General

blanch152

Johnthemanager wrote: »

Attorney General

OK, normally known as the AG, he advises the Government on matters of law, not individuals. It would be wrong to involve him in this.

markodaly

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is another aspect of Leos story that isnt quite adding up. He knew before his questions in the Dail that he was going to be asked what day and date he leaked the document in a taxi to oTuathaill. The day it happened is pretty easy to find out through a number of ways

1. Leos phone records of their Whatsapp conversation when he asked for his addrees
2. O'Tuathills Whatsapp records of same
3. The taxi companys records, assuming Leo didnt literally walk out on the street from his apartment and hail down a taxi and pay cash to some randomer to transport an important document. It will have been on a taxi account likely also used by the Dept of the Taoiseach to normally ferry their senior civil servants about when necessary. And on the monthly invoice from whatever taxi firm holds that government contract there will be a record of the taxi going from Leos apartment to O'Tuaithills one and it will also state the date. Leo could have verified all of this with the taxi company and it would have taken less than 5 minutes on the phone.
4. Leos Garda Protection- its their job to log all comings and goings when protecting the Taoiseach of the day, you dont get to just drive in to his apartment complex in a taxi looking for Leo and not expect to be questioned by a plain clothes Garda. Ive been in that building myself several times and was asked by a plain clothes Garda in the car park what my business there was. His protection are tasked with protecting him against dissident or loyalist elements so it would be their job to take note of reg plates and know who is coming and going. So as a matter of course there will be a record of that taxi arriving in there and the date & time it did so.

So Leo could have found out the exact date that the document did its journey in the taxi by at least one of four above methods. Yet he didnt despite knowing full well he was about to face questions in the Dail about it Theres something quite suss about that because if he really wanted to find out it wouldnt have been difficult to do so.

My guess is Leo knows the exact date but didnt want to reveal it during his Dail questions for reasons yet to be revealed. And another organisation who also knows the exact date is the Gardai because of point 4 above. The National Bureau of Criminal Investigation only need to call Leos Garda protection to find out the date. They will have done their own timeline on this and no doubt it will be a lot less vague than the one we have gotten from Leo thus far. From what we know they themselves have found that this timeline merits a full scale Garda investigation. And we also know Leo is being deliberately vague about an exact date. Something is not adding up and its Leo himself who has sown the confusion.

A lovely story, but afaik, it was an advisor to Leo that passed the physical document to MOT.

Where is it said, that Leo jumped into a Taxi to go to MOT's house?

markodaly

skimpydoo wrote: »

Some important things to note.

If Leo has done no wrong as he claims, why did Michael Martin not ask the AJ?

If Leo is innocent then you know the AJ will rubber-stamp this.

I think it's because he knew he would get an answer he would not like to hear.

If Leo gets charged this question is bound to pop up.

I would also like to know who gave Leo his legal advice and what did they exactly tell him?

Why?

Anyone is entitled to legal advice which is confidential. This is not North Korea.

markodaly

blanch152 wrote: »

OK, normally known as the AG, he advises the Government on matters of law, not individuals. It would be wrong to involve him in this.

Before long, we will be talking about the 3rd secret of Fatima given the nature of speculation and complete made-up scenarios, with no basis in fact, bandied about the place.;

Muahahaha

blanch152 wrote: »

OK, normally known as the AG, he advises the Government on matters of law, not individuals. It would be wrong to involve him in this.

Bonus points if the Attorney General at the time Seamus Wolfe advised Leo about his leaking
Double bonus points if Joespha Madigan advised him
Triple bonus points if Alan Shatter somehow got his oar in

Theres lots of legal advice to he had within the Fine Gael party, unfortunately history shows us that those doling it out havent exactly displayed the best of judgement themselves. Poor Alan Shatter had to resign in disgrace for being incompetent as Minister for Justice, Fine Gael card carrying member Judge Seamus Woulfe is not wanted by the entire Supreme Court bench of judges and Josepha Madigan wont be getting any five star Google reviews from Maria Bailey any time soon.

In any case Leo has no less than six Special Advisors on his team. They are a bunch of overpaid spin doctors directly appointed by him over the heads of the civil service. Could Leo be taking his legal advice from PR merchants instead of actual lawyers? With six people advising him you would think he would be able to do the right thing but given there is now a Garda investigation over the confidential (not confidential) document it would appear not.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

A lovely story, but afaik, it was an advisor to Leo that passed the physical document to MOT.

I don't think Leo will be able to use that as a (metaphorically speaking here) "get out of jail card" on this.

The buck stops with Leo, not his advisor or patsy for him, and he or she (assuming they now find themselves in a spot of Gardai bother) will probably be none too thankful being used as a pawn in this game. I do believe we even have posters on this thread implying Leo, as supreme leader could deem whatever confidential information he wanted to be no longer confidential, and in doing so, authorise the release of these documents he wanted released to anyone else.

These civil servants now presumably being dragged into the full blown criminal investigation too.

There's probably a total of four key players in this now.

1, OTuathail who asked for the agreement from civil servants, then Harris then Leo and soon received
2 the Senior Civil servant from Health who leaked the document to
3, the Senior Civil servant from Leo's dept, who sent it to OTuathail
4, Leo Varadkar who said he gave the orders for 2+3 to do what they did..

So there you have it Leo and Zero Craic have between them created a right fine mess, possibly destroying the careers and lives of others.

I think the best the civil servants caught up in it could hope for, is that seeing as it was Leo who ordered them to do what they did, he'll shoulder the blame and punishment for them.

It's a right kerfuffle for the leak and the state.

Leo Varadkar is FGs modern day Icarus.

Brendan Bendar

McMurphy wrote: »

I don't think Leo will be able to use that as a (metaphorically speaking here) "get out of jail card" on this.

The buck stops with Leo, not his advisor or patsy for him, and he or she (assuming they now find themselves in a spot of Gardai bother) will probably be none too thankful being used as a pawn in this game. I do believe we even have posters on this thread implying Leo, as supreme leader could deem whatever confidential information he wanted to be no longer confidential, and in doing so, authorise the release of these documents he wanted released to anyone else.

These civil servants now presumably being dragged into the full blown criminal investigation too.

There's probably a total of four key players in this now.

1, OTuathail who asked for the agreement from civil servants, then Harris then Leo and soon received
2 the Senior Civil servant from Health who leaked the document to
3, the Senior Civil servant from Leo's dept, who sent it to OTuathail
4, Leo Varadkar who said he gave the orders for 2+3 to do what they did..

So there you have it Leo and Zero Craic have between them created a right fine mess, possibly destroying the careers and lives of others.

I think the best the civil servants caught up in it could hope for, is that seeing as it was Leo who ordered them to do what they did, he'll shoulder the blame and punishment for them.

It's a right kerfuffle for the leak and the state.

Leo Varadkar is FGs modern day Icarus.

All of course wishful thinking and supposition.

shtpEdthePlum

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

All of course wishful thinking and supposition.

Everything they said is published in the paper.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

All of course wishful thinking and supposition.

It's not, it's all in the public domain.

Varadkar has admitted that he instructed an official to obtain the contract on April 10, 2019, at the behest of his friend Ó Tuathail. The Fine Gael leader posted a copy of the document to Ó Tuathail on April 15 or 16.

I invite you to show me which part of the above is inaccurate and based on "supposition"?

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

All of course wishful thinking and supposition.

There has been 'wishful thinking' going on since this all began Brendi and it isn't coming from those who think that Varadkar did the wrong thing here.

All the way along, as this thing escalated, we have had posters here stridently in denial.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There has been 'wishful thinking' going on since this all began Brendi and it isn't coming from those who think that Varadkar did the wrong thing here.

All the way along, as this thing escalated, we have had posters here stridently in denial.

Nobody “in denial” Francie, just some of us prefer leave the investigation and outcome to those officially charged with conducting it.


Not a concept some are over familiar with , I accept, prefer perhaps to to dish out their “own brand “ of ‘justice.’

Let’s wait for the outcome is my take on it, let the law take its course.

Can be a bit tedious for some I’m sure.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nobody “in denial” Francie, just some of us prefer leave the investigation and outcome to those officially charged with conducting it.


Not a concept some are over familiar with , I accept, prefer perhaps to to dish out their “own brand “ of ‘justice.’

Let’s wait for the outcome is my take on it, let the law take its course.

Can be a bit tedious for some I’m sure.

You said my post was

wishful thinking and supposition

It's not.

Source.

Varadkar has admitted that he instructed an official to obtain the contract on April 10, 2019, at the behest of his friend Ó Tuathail. The Fine Gael leader posted a copy of the document to Ó Tuathail on April 15 or 16.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nobody “in denial” Francie, just some of us prefer leave the investigation and outcome to those officially charged with conducting it.


Not a concept some are over familiar with , I accept, prefer perhaps to to dish out their “own brand “ of ‘justice.’

Let’s wait for the outcome is my take on it, let the law take its course.

Can be a bit tedious for some I’m sure.

I seem to remember you and others claiming it was 'over' after the vote of confidence Brendan when others were saying it wasn't...that would be 'denial'.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I seem to remember you and others claiming it was 'over' after the vote of confidence Brendan when others were saying it wasn't...that would be 'denial'.

No it wouldn’t, The vote of confidence was over, which was the issue at the time.

Francie, please don’t let’s waste pages and bandwidth parsing and analyzing ‘denial’

The matter is in,as of now, in the hands of the Gárdaí, whatever way the outcome results I will accept it.

If the Taoiseach as he was then has been found to have ‘done wrong’ then

fair enough.

But the lad deserves due process, in my opinion.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No it wouldn’t, The vote of confidence was over, which was the issue at the time.

Francie, please don’t let’s waste pages and bandwidth parsing and analyzing ‘denial’

The matter is in,as of now, in the hands of the Gárdaí, whatever way the outcome results I will accept it.

If the Taoiseach as he was then has been found to have ‘done wrong’ then

fair enough.

But the lad deserves due process, in my opinion.

Absolutely. Not trial by keyboard warriors with a chip on their shoulder.

Floppybits

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely. Not trial by keyboard warriors with a chip on their shoulder.

Nothing to stop folks talking about it. If you don't want to then don't post in the thread its as simple as that.

shatners bassoon

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nobody “in denial” Francie, just some of us prefer leave the investigation and outcome to those officially charged with conducting it.


Not a concept some are over familiar with , I accept, prefer perhaps to to dish out their “own brand “ of ‘justice.’

Let’s wait for the outcome is my take on it, let the law take its course.

Can be a bit tedious for some I’m sure.

That those who were telling all and sundry that this was a waste of time and resources; that there was nothing to see here; that it would blow over in a week; and who so confidently advised us all that no law had been broken are now being forced to flip-flop and bang the 'let justice take its course' drum is magnificent to behold.

You'd think that as we've reached the holy grail of 'criminal investigation' they would keep the head down.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No it wouldn’t, The vote of confidence was over, which was the issue at the time.

Francie, please don’t let’s waste pages and bandwidth parsing and analyzing ‘denial’

The matter is in,as of now, in the hands of the Gárdaí, whatever way the outcome results I will accept it.

If the Taoiseach as he was then has been found to have ‘done wrong’ then

fair enough.

But the lad deserves due process, in my opinion.

I think you are being disingenuous here Brendi, you were, just a day or two ago cheerleading somebody who was attempting to vindicate Mr Varadkar which any scholar of 'due process' would know is verboten.

BrendanBendar wrote:

That’s the plan Random, don’t be dragged down rabbit holes.

That’s a well known tactic, try to wear you out.

Keep up the good work.

'Hmmm compadre', as you might say yourself!

shatners bassoon

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely. Not trial by keyboard warriors with a chip on their shoulder.

As if by magic!

See above...

Brendan Bendar

McMurphy wrote: »

I don't think Leo will be able to use that as a (metaphorically speaking here) "get out of jail card" on this.

The buck stops with Leo, not his advisor or patsy for him, and he or she (assuming they now find themselves in a spot of Gardai bother) will probably be none too thankful being used as a pawn in this game. I do believe we even have posters on this thread implying Leo, as supreme leader could deem whatever confidential information he wanted to be no longer confidential, and in doing so, authorise the release of these documents he wanted released to anyone else.

These civil servants now presumably being dragged into the full blown criminal investigation too.

There's probably a total of four key players in this now.

1, OTuathail who asked for the agreement from civil servants, then Harris then Leo and soon received
2 the Senior Civil servant from Health who leaked the document to
3, the Senior Civil servant from Leo's dept, who sent it to OTuathail
4, Leo Varadkar who said he gave the orders for 2+3 to do what they did..

So there you have it Leo and Zero Craic have between them created a right fine mess, possibly destroying the careers and lives of others.

I think the best the civil servants caught up in it could hope for, is that seeing as it was Leo who ordered them to do what they did, he'll shoulder the blame and punishment for them.

It's a right kerfuffle for the leak and the state.

Leo Varadkar is FGs modern day Icarus.

Lot of opinion there Randle?

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Lot of opinion there Randle?

The "probably" and "possibly" part is my affording "due process"

All the rest is not an opinion, it's all in the public domain, it was linked to, copied pasted and posted.

I invited you to show what you feel is inaccurate, you haven't yet did that.

With that in mind, I'm happy enough with my post.

blanch152

shatners bassoon wrote: »

That those who were telling all and sundry that this was a waste of time and resources; that there was nothing to see here; that it would blow over in a week; and who so confidently advised us all that no law had been broken are now being forced to flip-flop and bang the 'let justice take its course' drum is magnificent to behold.

You'd think that as we've reached the holy grail of 'criminal investigation' they would keep the head down.

I still believe it is a waste of time and resources, as ultimately there doesn't appear to be any crime committed.

Of course, that won't stop the kangaroo court style judgements.

blanch152

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

All of course wishful thinking and supposition.

The case against Leo as put forward here is full of ifs, buts and maybes sprinkled with conspiracy theories, ignorance of the law and speculation.

McMurphy

The case against Leo is using nothing else but what is in the public domain.

There's no "maybe" zero craic approached civil servants > Harris > Leo himself to leak him a confidential document.

There's no "if" Leo got his assistant to source the agreement over the head of Harris'department.

There's no ifs buts and maybes that Leo apologised for leaking the confidential documents.

There's no if maybe or buts that this same assistant sent these documents to zero craic behind the back of canbinet.

And there's no if buts or maybe that a senior civil servant has made a protective disclosure to senior members of the NCBI.

There's lastly no it's buts and maybes that the NCBI upgraded their initial preliminary investigations into a full blown criminal investigation.

This is all factual and in the public domain and on the Dail record.

The ifs and maybes are affording Leo due process and presuming his innocence. Something you've been adamant we do.

Make up your minds lads.