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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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    #7952
    nialler1978
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭nialler1978


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    He dictated the email, therefore he requested it verbally. :rolleyes:

    Genuine question, is that a joke?


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    #7953
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,826 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Floppybits wrote: »
    Leo told us yesterday that there will be no charges. Not to forget humphries telling us that it's OK to commit crimes as long as its for the good of the state.

    Part of the strategy...there will be many more layers yet I would imagine. Leo will ultimately be looked after. It is how it works.


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    #7954
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Part of the strategy...there will be many more layers yet I would imagine. Leo will ultimately be looked after. It is how it works.

    Goes without saying. I would say that there is some horse trading going in the back ground now to make sure he is covered in case he needs to resign.


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    #7955
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    McMurphy wrote: »
    He wha:confused:

    He dictated the email, therefore he requested it by email, what are you even on about?

    As for "substantive points....



    Leo's explanation being ...



    Examiner...



    Twisting.




    way to miss the actual point Maryanne. He's on record lying how he requested the documents... There's DOH confirmed theres no record of him requesting it.. Leo says he requested it verbally - he LIED!

    Ah come on now Mc
    I know the Orgasmatron is high here with the lie word but saying you verbally requested a document when you did and omitting that you also requested it by email is not a lie by any stretch of the imagination
    The opposite spin on what you're asserting and IMO the stronger one,is someone who thought they should be hiding what they're doing wouldnt be emailing
    Lets get real here and present stuff that will fly
    Like how we had a Taoiseach conducting business of state inappropriately


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    #7956
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    He hardly carries every document around with him! He requested it be ready on his RETURN to Ireland.

    Sure Maryanne - I’m sure all documents updated between the time he left and arrived back in ireland are all thrown into the car for him. Or is it a an post van? Or maybe a truck...?

    Can you admit that he had a special interest in this document other than “getting the deal over the line”?

    It’s small on comparison to the other things he would be working on so why such urgency? Why send it to Tut? Does not add up.


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    #7957
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,826 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Ah come on now Mc
    I know the Orgasmatron is high here with the lie word but saying you verbally requested a document when you did and omitting that you also requested it by email is not a lie by any stretch of the imagination
    The opposite spin on what you're asserting and IMO the stronger one,is someone who thought they should be hiding what they're doing wouldnt be emailing
    Lets get real here and present stuff that will fly
    Like how we had a Taoiseach conducting business of state inappropriately

    One of the criticisms of Varadkar is his arrogance. We saw a bit of it yesterday with his pre-empting of the criminal investigation outcome.

    Was he arrogant enough to think this wouldn't come back to bite him? Arrogant enough to think that anything he said in the Dáil would be sufficient?

    Who knows. Miles to go yet on this story to get to the bottom of it.


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    #7958
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,826 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He's taking questions in the Dáil at the minute. Wonder will it be raised.


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    #7959
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,654 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I don't see the significance of these emails. Harris is looking for the current draft, with the clear implication that he has possession of earlier drafts. If the differences are small, mostly tidying, or the differences are ones that he has agreed to, the request is not significant at all, just a case of getting his hands on a full document.

    No one knows what the differences were despite the FG spin here that they were nothing. However I think it is plainly obvious that the later draft wasnt just correcting spelling mistakes as Maryanne is claiming. Simon Harris was desperate to get his hands on it, even sending a passive aggressive email demanding sight of the document "today". Now if all that was to get tidied up was just a few spelling mistakes and he already had previous drafts then why was he so desperate to lay his hands on it? Doesnt add up


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    #7960
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    One of the criticisms of Varadkar is his arrogance. We saw a bit of it yesterday with his pre-empting of the criminal investigation outcome.

    Was he arrogant enough to think this wouldn't come back to bite him? Arrogant enough to think that anything he said in the Dáil would be sufficient?

    Who knows. Miles to go yet on this story to get to the bottom of it.

    Yes but the crime issue is open and shut
    You can bet your bottom dollar thats going nowhere
    Whats being discussed in this thread as usual is 4 or 5 posters needling one another from oppisite sides of the plinth
    Each side will have a very different conclusion and will preach to their various converted


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    #7961
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,826 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Yes but the crime issue is open and shut
    You can bet your bottom dollar thats going nowhere
    Whats being discussed in this thread as usual is 4 or 5 posters needling one another from oppisite sides of the plinth
    Each side will have a very different conclusion and will preach to their various converted

    The way you avoided the point I made...Varadkar's arrogance maybe being the reason why he lied and has yet again been found out - suggests you are perched on a deep plinth yourself.


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    #7962
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Ah come on now Mc
    I know the Orgasmatron is high here with the lie word but saying you verbally requested a document when you did and omitting that you also requested it by email is not a lie by any stretch of the imagination
    The opposite spin on what you're asserting and IMO the stronger one,is someone who thought they should be hiding what they're doing wouldnt be emailing
    Lets get real here and present stuff that will fly
    Like how we had a Taoiseach conducting business of state inappropriately

    DOH have no record of this email Leo actually sent, but said he asked for verbally.
    can the Tánaiste also explain why the Department of Health has confirmed that it has no record of any request made by the Tánaiste or his adviser for a copy of the draft agreement


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    #7963
    Johnthemanager
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭Johnthemanager


    Floppybits wrote: »
    Goes without saying. I would say that there is some horse trading going in the back ground now to make sure he is covered in case he needs to resign.

    Frances Fitzgerald was given a massive promotion in the E.U. Yesterday!


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    #7964
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,725 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's hilarious how much Leo winds some people up the wrong way. He lives rent free inside their heads, and they spend literally months being outraged on twitter, here, the journal comments section etc.

    Mad auld stuff, but have at it I suppose. Whatever fills the time.


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    #7965
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,877 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    No one knows what the differences were despite the FG spin here that they were nothing. However I think it is plainly obvious that the later draft wasnt just correcting spelling mistakes as Maryanne is claiming. Simon Harris was desperate to get his hands on it, even sending a passive aggressive email demanding sight of the document "today". Now if all that was to get tidied up was just a few spelling mistakes and he already had previous drafts then why was he so desperate to lay his hands on it? Doesnt add up

    If he wanted to share the document urgently with someone, he would want the latest version to hand.


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    #7966
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If he wanted to share the document urgently with someone, he would want the latest version to hand.

    Why the urgency? Details were available publicly no?


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    #7967
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    For something in the 'nothing to see here, move on ' locker, it sure is taking the Gardai a long time to investigate.


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    #7968
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,654 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He hardly carries every document around with him! He requested it be ready on his RETURN to Ireland.

    Well thats not entirely true, he said in his email "Get it sent to me in Baldonnell this morning or tonight". It was put in his car for his return but equally he requested it to be in Baldonnel before the flight to Brussels.

    Given the adventures of this confidential (not confidential) document its just a pity it didnt get a jaunt on a private jet to Belgium and back before it made its way from Leos hands into a taxi to the house of Dr.Zero Craic.


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    #7969
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    McMurphy wrote: »
    He wha:confused:

    He dictated the email, therefore he requested it by email, what are you even on about?

    I don't use emoticons for nothing.
    McMurphy wrote: »
    As for "substantive points....

    No I mean the real issues (well not the real, real issues of the state, that's for a different thread) but the real issues in relation to this matter: those being
    1. Was there an exchange of goods or services for information.
    2. Did the NAGP have any effect on the construction of the GP agreement document (we have to be more specific than the GP agreement itself, as that had already concluded)
    3. How sensitive were the contents of the document

    While I am appreciative of the additional information, it doesn't answer any of those three things. Those three things determine the legality of the exchange.

    There are certain data rules that clearly weren't broken in relation to the sharing of the document. GDPR wasn't broken as there was no personal information within the document. However that does not preclude its sharing potentially breaking the States Secrets Act.

    That's the important aspects here. The rest is trying to find gotchas in a politician's spin.
    Fann Linn wrote: »
    For something in the 'nothing to see here, move on ' locker, it sure is taking the Gardai a long time to investigate.

    How long, in your experience do investigations last? The gardai investigation into Stephen Fry in relation to blasphemy only lasted 3 days as the complainant withdrew the complaint.


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    #7970
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Why the urgency? Details were available publicly no?

    Only public for Leo's pals. If ye were Minister for Health or Opposition Health spokesperson, you never got to see it!!


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    #7971
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's hilarious how much Leo winds some people up the wrong way. He lives rent free inside their heads, and they spend literally months being outraged on twitter, here, the journal comments section etc.

    Mad auld stuff, but have at it I suppose. Whatever fills the time.

    You could say the same about Mary Lou living rent free in peoples heads as well. Isn't that right Blanch.


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    #7972
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,654 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    blanch152 wrote: »
    If he wanted to share the document urgently with someone, he would want the latest version to hand.

    But if the document was in final stage spelling, grammar and layout checks as has been claimed on here then why was both Harris and Varadkar in a fluster to get it? Theres more going on here than what is yet known.


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    #7973
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,978 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    The hypocrisy is breath taking, Leaky Leo very concerned about the health department "Sharing Information" about children with Autism.

    This Article just a few down from another article re Leaky"s continuing woes is just astonishing.

    You couldn't make this up

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40251200.html

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #7974
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    But if the document was in final stage spelling, grammar and layout checks as has been claimed on here then why was both Harris and Varadkar in a fluster to get it? Theres more going on here than what is yet known.

    They were going to be presenting it in the Dail the following day (16th), so that was a pretty tight deadline.


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    #7975
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    I don't use emoticons for nothing.



    No I mean the real issues (well not the real, real issues of the state, that's for a different thread) but the real issues in relation to this matter: those being
    1. Was there an exchange of goods or services for information.
    2. Did the NAGP have any effect on the construction of the GP agreement document (we have to be more specific than the GP agreement itself, as that had already concluded)
    3. How sensitive were the contents of the document

    While I am appreciative of the additional information, it doesn't answer any of those three things. Those three things determine the legality of the exchange.

    There are certain data rules that clearly weren't broken in relation to the sharing of the document. GDPR wasn't broken as there was no personal information within the document. However that does not preclude its sharing potentially breaking the States Secrets Act.

    That's the important aspects here. The rest is trying to find gotchas in a politician's spin.



    How long, in your experience do investigations last? The gardai investigation into Stephen Fry in relation to blasphemy only lasted 3 days as the complainant withdrew the complaint.


    My post was more comment rather than question. Considering most of Leo's supporters are saying; he's entitled to leak, it wasn't confidential as in 'really confidential', he doesn't have to get Govt approval, etc etc.


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    #7976
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    The hypocrisy is breath taking, Leaky Leo very concerned about the health department "Sharing Information" about children with Autism.

    Are you saying he shouldn't be concerned? The DOH says it isn't an issue, so you are happy to take their word for that?

    I think bringing this into broader discussion is a good thing, and not keeping the policy of the DOH entirely behind closed doors. I don't consider this to be a leak by Doherty: it is bringing it into a public forum for discussion.

    It may turn out to be entirely legitimate practice, and there's no reason to presuppose any ill motivation on the part of the DOH, but looking into it certainly seems merited.

    You disagree with all that?
    Dempo1 wrote: »
    This Article just a few down from another article re Leaky"s continuing woes is just astonishing.

    What on earth are you talking about? Did you mean to say the Department of Health's woes? Couldn't think of something to alliterate with health, so went back to 'leaky' for want of something original or witty?


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    #7977
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    1. Was there an exchange of goods or services for information.
    2. Did the NAGP have any effect on the construction of the GP agreement document (we have to be more specific than the GP agreement itself, as that had already concluded)
    3. How sensitive were the contents of the document



    - does it matter ?
    - does it matter ?
    - does it matter ?

    Document was shared with a non government third party who can now do anything with it.

    I am of the opinion that what was contained among this pages does not matter at all. It’s the fact it was shared with someone who wanted it for reasons currently unknown(without speculating)

    Had it been the positions of our naval vessels or planned Garda operations would you be thinking the same?

    What leo did was wrong and what value it added to any party involved is totally irrelevant.


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    #7978
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,877 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    1. Was there an exchange of goods or services for information.
    2. Did the NAGP have any effect on the construction of the GP agreement document (we have to be more specific than the GP agreement itself, as that had already concluded)
    3. How sensitive were the contents of the document



    - does it matter ?
    - does it matter ?
    - does it matter ?

    Document was shared with a non government third party who can now do anything with it.

    I am of the opinion that what was contained among this pages does not matter at all. It’s the fact it was shared with someone who wanted it for reasons currently unknown(without speculating)

    Had it been the positions of our naval vessels or planned Garda operations would you be thinking the same?

    What leo did was wrong and what value it added to any party involved is totally irrelevant.

    The positions of our naval vessels or planned Garda operations are classified security documents, they are documents of a far different nature, subject to much more restrictions. The protocols around them are much more stringent, for obvious reasons.


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    #7979
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,469 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Are you saying he shouldn't be concerned? The DOH says it isn't an issue, so you are happy to take their word for that?

    I think bringing this into broader discussion is a good thing, and not keeping the policy of the DOH entirely behind closed doors. I don't consider this to be a leak by Doherty: it is bringing it into a public forum for discussion.

    It may turn out to be entirely legitimate practice, and there's no reason to presuppose any ill motivation on the part of the DOH, but looking into it certainly seems merited.

    You disagree with all that?



    What on earth are you talking about? Did you mean to say the Department of Health's woes? Couldn't think of something to alliterate with health, so went back to 'leaky' for want of something original or witty?

    Wouldn’t waste my time there Random.But I’m sure you know that;)


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    #7980
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Meanwhile the up and coming within FG tweet the likes of this......

    https://twitter.com/McManusDavid/status/1375031555949785089?s=19

    Leaked something they got via FOI. Facepalm.


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    #7981
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,826 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    1. Was there an exchange of goods or services for information.
    2. Did the NAGP have any effect on the construction of the GP agreement document (we have to be more specific than the GP agreement itself, as that had already concluded)
    3. How sensitive were the contents of the document



    - does it matter ?
    - does it matter ?
    - does it matter ?

    Document was shared with a non government third party who can now do anything with it.

    I am of the opinion that what was contained among this pages does not matter at all. It’s the fact it was shared with someone who wanted it for reasons currently unknown(without speculating)

    Had it been the positions of our naval vessels or planned Garda operations would you be thinking the same?

    What leo did was wrong and what value it added to any party involved is totally irrelevant.

    Wasn't it posted earlier that 'no material or other advantage need be proved' or words to that effect, is contained in the legislation?


This discussion has been closed.
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