Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Do you know what an electoral college is?

If you are so concerned about FG and the way they elect their leaders, I hope you are astonished and ashamed at other parties and the way they coronate their leaders like a Monarchy. But I guess you don't want to talk about that.

I couldn't care less 'how' they elect their leaders, I care about lies being told about how they 'elect' their leaders.
You can call it an 'electoral college', I call it, what it is, a method of controlling who the leader is above and beyond the will and democratic vote of the membership.
If other parties do it that doesn't change the fact FG also do it.

Larbre34

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They've been hand-waving this story away since it began.
It's still going as a story no matter what they try though.

Noted the poll today and it shows what I think will happen between now and the next election, Leo will lead FG back to their 20% approx of the vote while FF close the gap on them.
I genuinely hope they don't get rid of Leo, he's the best bet for finally getting rid of the power swap.

FF close the gap? What on earth gives you the notion that FF will do something like that?

I think it says all we need to know about your political analysis skills when you say something like that.

FF are in an existential crisis and after the Taoiseach rotates in 2022 will be so engaged in a schism that growth of their vote will be the last thing on their priority list.

FrancieBrady

Larbre34 wrote: »

FF close the gap? What on earth gives you the notion that FF will do something like that?

I think it says all we need to know about your political analysis skills when you say something like that.

FF are in an existential crisis and after the Taoiseach rotates in 2022 will be so engaged in a schism that growth of their vote will be the last thing on their priority list.

I see FG in the low 20's if the government goes full term and FF in the high teens = close the gap from what it is now in the latest poll, where FG dropped 1 and FF gained 2.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't care less 'how' they elect their leaders, I care about lies being told about how they 'elect' their leaders.
You can call it an 'electoral college', I call it, what it is, a method of controlling who the leader is above and beyond the will and democratic vote of the membership.
If other parties do it that doesn't change the fact FG also do it.

The process,all democratic was outlined to you
Those 10,000 members actually get 3 voices to change leader
Via a rule change
Via electing their election candidates
Via the electoral college system

A simple one person pne vote leadership instead,rule change, is possible if theres ever a majority to do that
There isn't
Ergo your accusation is false

thomas 123

Very hard to follow the thread with all the Sinn Fein deflection.

Rows Grower

thomas 123 wrote: »

Very hard to follow the thread with all the Sinn Fein deflection.

It's pathetic the extremes some will go to.

shtpEdthePlum

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's some reverse whataboutery whataboutery!!

What has Mary Lou and SF got to do with this??

JFC put a mark on the wall

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't care less 'how' they elect their leaders, I care about lies being told about how they 'elect' their leaders.

You don't care but you do care.
I guess you care depending on what party we are talking about.

You can call it an 'electoral college', I call it, what it is, a method of controlling who the leader is above and beyond the will and democratic vote of the membership.

OK, so you don't know what an electoral college is.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

You don't care but you do care.
I guess you care depending on what party we are talking about.



OK, so you don't know what an electoral college is.

I care about the lies told about it, to try and put yourself above others.

I do know what an electoral college is.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I care about the lies told about it, to try and put yourself above others.

I do know what an electoral college is.

Classic, just classic!

If you know what an electoral college is, then there are no 'lies' being told.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I care about the lies told about it, to try and put yourself above others.

I do know what an electoral college is.

Look,the irony is not lost,with a supporter of Sinn Féin with close ties to the Cuban communist party lecturing FG on party democracy
Its another spit out my tea laughing moment for me I'm afraid

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

10,000 votes were ignored in FG and an elite of the party decided.

It doesn't matter if these are the 'rules' or if this is 'known' by the members...it is an elite of the party deciding. Votes cast don't matter, simple as that.

In the UK the FPTP system meant in 2015 that UKIP got 13% of votes with no MP's elected. In the US Donald Trump lost the popular vote by millions but still got elected president.

So here you are criticizing the FG democratic system while supporting a party that runs its own system in a similar manner as North Korea or China and where leaders can never be challenged.

People in glass houses.

skimpydoo

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's not what the article said last night that was linked here.

The other article is in the Sunday Times written by different journalists. Hence why it is different.

skimpydoo

mattser wrote: »

Lads up till 2am talking bs about a non story BB. Some people.

if it's a non story, why did it not die last November?

If nothing happens, it still does not paint Leo in a good light. When was the last time an Irish leader of a political party was interviewed under caution and when was the last time an Irish leader of a political party had to hand in their phone to the Guards?

Can't you at least admit it does not look good for Leo or are you too blinkered to see that.

thomas 123

Marine Layer wrote: »

Look,the irony is not lost,with a supporter of Sinn Féin with close ties to the Cuban communist party lecturing FG on party democracy
Its another spit out my tea laughing moment for me I'm afraid

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

skimpydoo

thomas 123 wrote: »

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

The Tories :rolleyes:

thomas 123

thomas 123 wrote: »

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

The DUP?

skimpydoo

skimpydoo wrote: »

if it's a non story, why did it not die last November?

If nothing happens, it still does not paint Leo in a good light. When was the last time an Irish leader of a political party was interviewed under caution and when was the last an Irish leader of a political party had to hand in their phone to the Guards?

Can't you at least admit it does not look good for Leo or are you too blinkered to see that.

Not really
Outside of Sinn Féin and those typically virulently anti Vradakar,this is spun as a process any Tom Dick or Paddy Cosgrave could get rolling against anyone including a Taoiseach
I wouldn't be at all surprised if when its concluded,several will speak to put what they see as misinformation about it to bed
Also as I said in the government thread,I think relying on it as a political football in the next election would be a mistake as its got too many angles for the then Taoiseach Vradakar to mince it,chief among them,its disgruntled originators and of course the opportunity to highlight the advantages of getting as many to sign up to the gp contract as did

jmcc

thomas 123 wrote: »

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

The Nazi Party? Fought on the same side in the Spanish Civil War while SFers were fighting against the Fascists. The leader of the Blue Shirts (O'Duffy) became the first leader of the combined part that was Fine Gael? And then there was Oliver J. Flanagan and his admiration for the Nazis "routing out the Jews" speech.

Regards...jmcc

Dyr

So the Táinaiste being interviewed by the police, but no calls for him to step down.

Standards in public office, indeed.

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

The Nazi Party? Fought on the same side in the Spanish Civil War while SFers were fighting against the Fascists. The leader of the Blue Shirts (O'Duffy) became the first leader of the combined part that was Fine Gael?

Regards...jmcc

I think the difference couldn't be more stark
One is 80 years ago
The other is very much current
But anyway,this is veering waaaaY off topic

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I see FG in the low 20's if the government goes full term and FF in the high teens = close the gap from what it is now in the latest poll, where FG dropped 1 and FF gained 2.

It is a different methodology to that used by RedC. RedC uses a panel of 40K people to generate its 1K sample. It is not a random sample as such and is more of a tracking poll. The other aspect is that FF's older supporters don't like online/phone polling so RedC tends to underestimate FF support. The Ireland Thinks methodology does seem to try to compensate for that effect and shows FF support 5% higher. When face to face polling resumed for a while last year, FF's support increased dramatically.

FG was at around 30% in the opinion polls in late 2019. Charlie Tan'agan and his gang of neo-Unionists tried to commemorate the Black and Tans/RIC and FG's support collapsed to 20% and it was beaten by SF. Party support always crystalises in the last few weeks before an election and FG's current %s are very much the product of incessant propaganda from pro-FG media.

The next GE campaign will be a very different one. IN&M was bought in a firesale by a Belgian company. Previously, it had a massively pro-FG slant due to the largest shareholder being the lucky winner of the second mobile phone licence courtesty of FG, Denis O'Brien. Communicorp was also sold. So that's another previously pro-FG media group that may be in play. The sales of newspapers on which parties relied so heavily to influence votes are collapsing. Social Media is the new battleground. An FF recovery is not out of the question but FF would need to get rid of Martin.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Marine Layer wrote: »

I think the difference couldn't be more stark
One is 80 years ago

And FG's Youth organisation voting to make Maggie Thatcher an honourary member? A bunch of Tory wannabes!

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

Communicorp was also sold. So that's another previously pro-FG media group that may be in play.

Regards...jmcc

Radio/TV is never in play
Rule 27 BAI

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

And FG's Youth organisation voting to make Maggie Thatcher an honourary member? A bunch of Tory wannabes!

Regards...jmcc

Youth wings,God bless them are a bit off centre alright
Thankfully it doesn't always get into the mainstream

http://republicanyouth.org/articles/international-cuba

jmcc

"Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has been questioned by gardaí over the leaking of a confidential Government document, while detectives also took possession of the Fine Gael leader’s mobile phone after he handed it over in a major upscaling of the investigation." Sindo. 18/April/2021.

Varadkar was interviewed under caution on April 9th. His friend, O'Toole, was interviewed on April 5th. The pro-FG media has been pushing a non-story about an SF electoral database and has completely avoided the story about Varadkar being questioned under caution and his mobile phone being surrendered.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Marine Layer wrote: »

Radio/TV is never in play
Rule 27 BAI

The same people who thought that they should be the ones to regulate the Internet? That BAI?

Wasn't there some bill on cross-media ownership that was sidelined a few years ago when Dinny O'Brien was the largest shareholder in IN&M and owner of Communicorp?

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

"Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has been questioned by gardaí over the leaking of a confidential Government document, while detectives also took possession of the Fine Gael leader’s mobile phone after he handed it over in a major upscaling of the investigation." Sindo. 18/April/2021.

Varadkar was interviewed under caution on April 9th. His friend, O'Toole, was interviewed on April 5th. The pro-FG media has been pushing a non-story about an SF electoral database and has completely avoided the story about Varadkar being questioned under caution and his mobile phone being surrendered.

Regards...jmcc

You're some man for the scoops,We'd never know only for you repeating it there
You forgot the bits about the source saying the document wasnt protected and no benefit to vradakar found,but We'll forgive you that,I'll just repeat it instead

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

The same people who thought that they should be the ones to regulate the Internet? That BAI?

Wasn't there some bill on cross-media ownership that was sidelined a few years ago when Dinny O'Brien was the largest shareholder in IN&M and owner of Communicorp?

Regards...jmcc

Irrelevant to the law on radio and tv which you misinterpreted for us by saying it was 'in play' for the next election
It most certainly is not

jmcc

Marine Layer wrote: »

You're some man for the scoops,We'd never know only for you repeating it there

Really? I would have thought that you were a Sunday Independent reader.

You forgot the bits about the source saying the document wasnt protected and no benefit to vradakar found,but We'll forgive you that,I'll just repeat it instead

The point is that Varadkar was interviewed under caution on April 9th. The pro-FG media had avoided that story and had instead run with the non-story by Varadkar's hagiographer about the SF electoral database. One wonders what other bad FG news they are trying to hide? Any comments?

Regards...jmcc