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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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    #9482
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    From the Cambridge dictionary.

    -To leave a job or position so that someone else can have it instead:
    -It's time he stood aside and let a more qualified person do the job.

    -to step sideways to make a space for someone else:

    But you're saying it's take a break Francie?

    Do me a favour, Google stand aside.

    Now back to my original point.

    Some want him to give up his career for something he could be innocent of.

    Hold your horses...

    It is a temporary measure.


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    #9483
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,338 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It is a temporary measure.

    What's a temporary measure?

    You said people are asking him to stand aside, which you now claim means take time off.

    I've shown you that's not what stand aside means.

    You have misrepresented what people here have meant when they said he should stand aside.

    They want him to resigm for something he has not been found guilty of and could be innocent.

    As I said nonsense, absolute nonsense.


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    #9484
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    What's a temporary measure?

    You said people are asking him to stand aside, which you now claim means take time off.

    I've shown you that's not what stand aside means.

    You have misrepresented what people here have meant when they said he should stand aside.

    They want him to resigm for something he has not been found guilty of and could be innocent.

    As I said nonsense, absolute nonsense.

    Here is an example. It's a temporary measure JJ.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-38527042


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    #9485
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,131 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    What's a temporary measure?

    You said people are asking him to stand aside, which you now claim means take time off.

    I've shown you that's not what stand aside means.

    You have misrepresented what people here have meant when they said he should stand aside.

    They want him to resigm for something he has not been found guilty of and could be innocent.

    As I said nonsense, absolute nonsense.
    You can stand aside on a temporary basis, which is entirely in line with what Francie is saying

    EDIT: a "permanent" measure is typically described as "stepping back" or "standing back"


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    #9486
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I haven't asked him anything. But others want him to stand aside while the investigation proceeds.


    Who? Who wants him to stand aside?


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    #9487
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Expected to step aside without prejudice would be the norm.


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    #9488
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Suckit wrote: »
    It isn't Paddy Cosgrave though, that leaked the documents. That is a real FG response, we see it all the time, blaming the people who called them out.
    Leo is the person that leaked the documents and admitted it. Leo is under criminal investigation for leaking those documents.
    Feel free to keep mentioning Paddy Cosgraves name because you think there is something clever in the way you do it (there really isn't. It's beyond stupid and sounds like a 5 year old is getting at your keyboard).
    A TD under criminal investigation, who has nothing to worry about would stand aside to stop anything that might hinder the investigation.
    Leo sitting in the seat of the Tanaiste means that some parts of the investigation will have to be undertaken in a very convoluted way to ensure there isn't any, or to prevent any, corruption.
    There are other reasons he should step aside too.
    So it really isn't about Paddy Cosgrave at all.
    There are only a few Tom, Leo or Harry's that have the power to influence the investigation and disrupt the government (see, I can do it too *mindblown*), and Paddy Cosgrave isn't one of them.


    Nobody has leaked any documents.

    We are constantly reminded that people should be innocent until proven guilty, as far as is known, Varadkar legitimately shared a document.


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    #9489
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Nobody has leaked any documents.

    .

    Leo doesn't agree.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tABblTQ1xM


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    #9490
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Expected to step aside without prejudice would be the norm.

    Maybe for some sectors where there is evidence of a crime. This isn’t the case here. More a persons dissatisfaction with their government’s performance. A serious case of sour grapes.


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    #9491
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Who? Who wants him to stand aside?

    There were calls for him to stand aside from Paul Murphy, SF, Ogra FF and FF, here is what one FFer said:
    Sligo-Leitrim TD Marc MacSharry told TheJournal.ie that he hasn’t spoke to anyone in the party about their attitude, but said “the reality is if a minister is the subject of a criminal investigation prudence demands that they should step aside albeit temporarily pending the conclusion of the investigation”.


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    #9492
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were calls for him to stand aside from Paul Murphy, SF, Ogra FF and FF, here is what one FFer said:

    The nauseating hypocrisy from Sinn Fein on this one stinks. Where were the calls for Conor Murphy and Michelle O'Neill to stand aside while under investigation?


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    #9493
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The nauseating hypocrisy from Sinn Fein on this one stinks. Where were the calls for Conor Murphy and Michelle O'Neill to stand aside while under investigation?

    You only asked the question to get SF into the thread. Transparent as usual.


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    #9494
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,338 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Beasty wrote: »
    You can stand aside on a temporary basis, which is entirely in line with what Francie is saying

    EDIT: a "permanent" measure is typically described as "stepping back" or "standing back"

    Google stand aside.


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    #9495
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Maybe for some sectors where there is evidence of a crime. This isn’t the case here. More a persons dissatisfaction with their government’s performance. A serious case of sour grapes.

    What are you on about Maryanne, there's no evidence of a crime being committed because the DPP haven't decided if one may have been committed to begin with, however there is an active criminal investigation taking place currently by the Gardai.

    If FF/FG hadn't become FFG, there would most definitely be an expectation for Leo to be standing aside temporarily while the investigation was taking place, and you can bet your bottom euro that FG would be calling for any other political representatives from other party's to be doing so if their members were in the same boat as Leo.

    This holier than thou persona has been blown right out of the water forever more.


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    #9496
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You only asked the question to get SF into the thread. Transparent as usual.

    Sorry, but that one's on you:
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were calls for him to stand aside from Paul Murphy, SF, Ogra FF and FF, here is what one FFer said:


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    #9497
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You only asked the question to get SF into the thread. Transparent as usual.

    Double standards from the accusers would be relevant
    We can probably give you absolution Francie as you're probably going to tell us you called for MoN to step aside so its ok then?


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    #9498
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were calls for him to stand aside from Paul Murphy, SF, Ogra FF and FF, here is what one FFer said:

    Ah, Paul Murphy. That fine, upstanding model of correctness. He may have been found not guilty of false imprisonment of Joan Burton and her aide, but that doesn’t excuse his deplorable behaviour during the Jobstown Incident.


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    #9499
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Sorry, but that one's on you:

    Ye, which should have answered your question. But you as usual wanted to get a dig in and deflect.


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    #9500
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    McMurphy wrote: »
    What are you on about Maryanne, there's no evidence of a crime being committed because the DPP haven't decided if one may have been committed to begin with, however there is an active criminal investigation taking place currently by the Gardai.

    If FF/FG hadn't become FFG, there would most definitely be an expectation for Leo to be standing aside temporarily while the investigation was taking place, and you can bet your bottom euro that FG would be calling for any other political representatives from other party's to be doing so if their members were in the same boat as Leo.

    This holier than thou persona has been blown right out of the water forever more.

    Innocent until proven guilty. No evidence of a crime so no need to stand aside.


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    #9501
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,338 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Here is an example. It's a temporary measure JJ.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-38527042

    Ive just given you an example of what stand aside means from the Cambridge dictionary.

    And if you Google it you get numerous explanations that it means resign.

    You quote a BBC article.

    Stand aside means resign.

    The fact is people here want him resign( stand aside in real terms) for something he could be innocent of.

    Not the way a civlised society operates.


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    #9502
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,338 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Cambridge dictionary.

    stand aside
    — phrasal verb with stand verb
    UK /stænd/ US /stænd/
    stood | stood

    to leave a job or position so that someone else can have it instead:
    It's time he stood aside and let a more qualified person do the job.

    to step sideways to make a space for someone else:


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    #9503
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Marine Layer wrote: »
    Double standards from the accusers would be relevant
    We can probably give you absolution Francie as you're probably going to tell us you called for MoN to step aside so its ok then?

    No I didn't. Being investigated for breaking regs is slightly different to a criminal investigation under two pieces of legislation. It's reflected in the penalties.

    I didn't call for LV to stand aside either btw...I think it's great having him as somebody being investigated. Hope he stays were he is to lead them into the next election tbh.


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    #9504
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Innocent until proven guilty. No evidence of a crime so no need to stand aside.

    There is a confession and evidence of what he did and witnesses.

    The DDP will make the decision on whether it is a crime or not. Not you, me or a Garda source, who frankly, knowing the Indo could be the cleaner.


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    #9505
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Innocent until proven guilty. No evidence of a crime so no need to stand aside.

    There is an active criminal investigation which when concluded, a file will be sent to the DPP who will decide whether or not a crime may have been committed, therefore claiming there's no evidence is absolutely mind numbingly pointless.

    He would be expected to step aside to facilitate the criminal investigation.

    If a carer was accused of roughing up your grandmother in her nursing home, you obviously would have no bother leaving that carer in place looking after your granny while they were investigated I would assume?*

    *Btw it's a hypothetical question before you deflect with your granny is dead and gone etc etc.


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    #9506
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Ive just given you an example of what stand aside means from the Cambridge dictionary.

    And if you Google it you get numerous explanations that it means resign.

    You quote a BBC article.

    Stand aside means resign.

    The fact is people here want him resign( stand aside in real terms) for something he could be innocent of.

    Not the way a civlised society operates.

    Oh JJ please!


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    #9507
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No I didn't. Being investigated for breaking regs is slightly different to a criminal investigation under two pieces of legislation. It's reflected in the penalties.

    I didn't call for LV to stand aside either btw...I think it's great having him as somebody being investigated. Hope he stays were he is to lead them into the next election tbh.

    Excusing double standards as usual.


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    #9508
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,633 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Excusing double standards as usual.

    No, I think all parties are weak on sanctioning wrong doing even when somebody confesses to it.

    FG FF and the Greens proving they will circle the wagons if needed too.


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    #9509
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Who? Who wants him to stand aside?
    Many do. I would probably be the one who mentioned it back so many posts and went out for a run, just catching up now.
    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Stand aside.

    What does that mean?
    Some examples of ministers being asked to stand aside. There are many, many more. These are just for reference to the phrasing of 'stand aside'.
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/26/angus-taylor-should-stand-aside-as-minister-because-its-the-right-thing-to-do
    https://www.9news.com.au/national/australia-post-spent-12000-on-cartier-watches-for-executives/1f14bcb9-6eb4-4e79-a853-feeee77f7e8b
    https://theconversation.com/arthur-sinodinos-should-stand-aside-during-icac-inquiry-24543
    https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mirror/20210315/281539408714007
    https://extra.ie/2021/03/21/news/irish-news/poll-finds-majority-think-varadkar-should-step-down-until-garda-leak-probe-is-resolved


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    #9510
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No, I think all parties are weak on sanctioning wrong doing even when somebody confesses to it.

    FG FF and the Greens proving they will circle the wagons if needed too.

    Huge difference of course between taking a shortcut to inform a gp representative of what's in a contract the government would like signed by as many as possible to improve the health service and corruption of course
    This is classed by our government as something they won't allow create a precedent that can be used by any Tom Dick or Paddy Cosgrave to disrupt the running of the country
    Ergo the government have moved on letting the process play out :)


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    #9511
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lots of wagon circling going on!


This discussion has been closed.
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