Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

McMurphy

Jesus this thing is being dragged out and out, seems more and more are being dragged into it as time goes on.

Maybe after work this evening I might go over some of the early contributions to the thread and reread some of the predictions that this would all blow over in a matter of weeks.

Nearly June - and still rumbling on, doing him no favours, "fine gael sources" not happy apparently.

Not going away.

blanch152

Larbre34 wrote: »

Calm down princess, you might strain your farting string.

I don't give anyone my unconditional respect, its a constantly updating situation. I respect the Guards in much of what they do, not so much in other ways.

What I'm saying here really has nothing to do with them, they have been drawn into the circus of hearsay and time wasting and they are letting it die a slow death so as not to have to tolerate some investigation instigated by the same bunch of shytehawks who concocted this waste of everyone's time in the first place!

This is now a farce.

Hadn't thought of that angle. The likes of Cosgrave and idiot politicians like Doherty and Murphy will be straight to GSOC if there is no decision to prosecute. The Gardai will need to dot every "i" and cross every "t", even though they know they are wasting their time.

McMurphy

Another way of looking at it is there's too much information in the public domain, and possibly lots more not in it, that some of the key players have, and the Gardai know they have.

Just throwing it out there, but it's maybe not as easy to brush this whole thing under the carpet as some might have liked it to be.
Digital footprints are a nuisance, Leo got careless.

Not going away.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Another way of looking at it is there's too much information in the public domain, and possibly lots more not in it, that some of the key players have, and the Gardai know they have.

Just throwing it out there, but it's maybe not as easy to brush this whole thing under the carpet as some might have liked it to be.
Digital footprints are a nuisance, Leo got careless.

Not going away.

I'm a bit shocked I have to say that the normal defenders of the power swap are flat out intimating that the Gardai only do their jobs properly when it is a high profile case. Surely there is something rotten at the heart of the state if that is the case?

How many now have used that excuse for the length of the criminal investigation?

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

Hadn't thought of that angle. The likes of Cosgrave and idiot politicians like Doherty and Murphy will be straight to GSOC if there is no decision to prosecute. The Gardai will need to dot every "i" and cross every "t", even though they know they are wasting their time.

Nothing to do with that at all. First paragraph of the Times nails it. Leo played down the extent of his friendship with ZeroCraic, ZeroCraics statement suggests otherwise. Gardai just want to see how far this 'friendship' went and whether there was any breaches of two Acts in relation to giving confidential documents and bestowing influence to friends.

McMurphy

Fann Linn wrote: »

Nothing to do with that at all. First paragraph of the Times nails it. Leo played down the extent of his friendship with ZeroCraic, ZeroCraics statement suggests otherwise. Gardai just want to see how far this 'friendship' went and whether there was any breaches of two Acts in relation to giving confidential documents and bestowing influence to friends.

There's also this.

Mr Varadkar was at the centre of the investigation from the outset, and remains at the centre of the inquiry. However, it is also possible other people would face charges if any suspected criminal activity came to light relating to the leak or its aftermath.

Weren't some on this thread asking who or why "others could be charged,"?

Seems the above is why.

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Nothing to do with that at all. First paragraph of the Times nails it. Leo played down the extent of his friendship with ZeroCraic, ZeroCraics statement suggests otherwise. Gardai just want to see how far this 'friendship' went and whether there was any breaches of two Acts in relation to giving confidential documents and bestowing influence to friends.

I think that O’Toole read more into a casual acquaintance than there was. He comes across as being a lover scorned. And Hell hath no fury......

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think that O’Toole read more into a casual acquaintance than there was. He comes across as being a lover scorned. And Hell hath no fury......

Hence the reason why all the phones are been lifted,

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that O’Toole read more into a casual acquaintance than there was. He comes across as being a lover scorned. And Hell hath no fury......

I wouldn't be risking my career, nor any legal ramifications by leaking sensitive information to a casual acquaintance Maryann, that's for sure.

As for the lover scorn bit, I'm going to sit back and watch the homophobic accusations that will undoubtedly roll in now on the back of that, as surely would have, had anyone not "pro fg" posted that.

Just wait and see.

Fann Linn

McMurphy wrote: »

I wouldn't be risking my career, nor any legal ramifications by leaking sensitive information to a casual acquaintance Maryann, that's for sure.

As for the lover scorn bit, I'm going to sit back and watch the homophobic accusations that will undoubtedly roll in now on the back of that, as surely would have, had anyone not "pro fg" posted that.

Just wait and see.

Thinking that myself. Pintman won't like that phraseology.

Rows Grower

Fann Linn wrote: »

Thinking that myself. Pintman won't like that phraseology.

He'll be on in a while with a statement...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fin-0EVuhHo

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Hadn't thought of that angle. The likes of Cosgrave and idiot politicians like Doherty and Murphy will be straight to GSOC if there is no decision to prosecute. The Gardai will need to dot every "i" and cross every "t", even though they know they are wasting their time.

GSOC are not able to investigate the conduct of an investigation because of whether an uninvolved party likes the outcome or not.


It's an uninformed and ignorant angle, so you can safely put it out of your mind.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

I wouldn't be risking my career, nor any legal ramifications by leaking sensitive information to a casual acquaintance Maryann, that's for sure.

As for the lover scorn bit, I'm going to sit back and watch the homophobic accusations that will undoubtedly roll in now on the back of that, as surely would have, had anyone not "pro fg" posted that.

Just wait and see.

Maryann's comment is childish
Maithú's texts weren't exactly too clever/adult like either in my opinion
I'd support the investigation being as thorough as possible
The explanation on the handing over of the document is plausible
A Taoiseach would have been perfectly entitled to call in anyone involved to update them on the contract as it affects them and to solicit support for it
We've learned in this process that if you are taking short cuts with no malicious intent and someone spurned in business dealings or whatever gets their hands on an angle,it gets messy untill its cleared up
Thats my opinion
Other opinions may vary

Suckit

Marine Layer wrote: »

Maryann's comment is childish
Maithú's texts weren't exactly too clever/adult like either in my opinion
I'd support the investigation being as thorough as possible
The explanation on the handing over of the document is plausible
A Taoiseach would have been perfectly entitled to call in anyone involved to update them on the contract as it affects them and to solicit support for it

So it is safe to say that you would support Leo stepping aside as the investigation continues.
Now that we are hearing that the investigation will likely continue well into the summer, and not possibly next week or possibly tomorrow etc. he should make room for them to perform the investigation without any hindrance or obstacles, so that there can be no questions left - aka 'as thorough as possible'. It's also the right thing to do and he should have done it from the start, but it wouldn't be the first time that Leo thought Leo knows best.
Staying in the current government dragging this behind him is a distraction (at the very least) to the real matters that are crucial at this time. He already has at least a few FG TD's being distracted and stressed with questioning and interviews, and possibly their phones being taken, why not step aside? What has he got to hide....? :rolleyes:

Marine Layer wrote: »

We've learned in this process that if you are taking short cuts with no malicious intent and someone spurned in business dealings or whatever gets their hands on an angle,it gets messy untill its cleared up
Thats my opinion
Other opinions may vary

Really?
You don't think the lesson here is that a government official shouldn't leak documents marked confidential? No. Matter. What.
To be honest, I'm a lot surprised that, that needed to be a lesson at all.
That Leo even thinks he can just declare it a nothing, and decide no law was broken is arrogant enough, but if he is truly convinced of that, then (at risk of sounding repetitive), step aside.

Suckit

Suckit wrote: »

So it is safe to say that you would support Leo stepping aside as the investigation continues.
Now that we are hearing that the investigation will likely continue well into the summer, and not possibly next week or possibly tomorrow etc. he should make room for them to perform the investigation without any hindrance or obstacles, so that there can be no questions left - aka 'as thorough as possible'. It's also the right thing to do and he should have done it from the start, but it wouldn't be the first time that Leo thought Leo knows best.
Staying in the current government dragging this behind him is a distraction (at the very least) to the real matters that are crucial at this time. He already has at least a few FG TD's being distracted and stressed with questioning and interviews, and possibly their phones being taken, why not step aside? What has he got to hide....? :rolleyes:

Knowing who the complainants are,I'm with the government on this one
No precedent should be set for any tom dick or...with unrelated axes to grind
Set it and you're on the road to anarchy
I appreciate thats not what you'd like me to say
But as I said varieties of opinion are always available

Really?
You don't think the lesson here is that a government official shouldn't leak documents marked confidential? No. Matter. What.
To be honest, I'm a lot surprised that, that needed to be a lesson at all.
That Leo even thinks he can just declare it a nothing, and decide no law was broken is arrogant enough, but if he is truly convinced of that, then (at risk of sounding repetitive), step aside.

I think considering he was entitled to mouth the document word for word to any stakeholder gp,whose signing up to it was to everyones benefit,that its not surprising that the bulk of the noise about this is coming from the pirate flag set and the finegaelists
Plenty of the latter here,but at the end of the day,countries cannot be governed by ignoring large sets of voters
The finegaelists,the sinn fein batterer's and the socialists will be working together in various guises in the future like they do on the ground,because none of them are going away

Larbre34

Absolutely right.

This is nothing more than a vexatious attempt by a butt hurt narcissist to even a score. I mean how dare official Ireland not embrace him as the entrepreneurial and technological messiah that he clearly is!!

Poor auld Bowes is just along for the ride.

Farce.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

GSOC are not able to investigate the conduct of an investigation because of whether an uninvolved party likes the outcome or not.


It's an uninformed and ignorant angle, so you can safely put it out of your mind.

The complainant in this case would be able to complain to GSOC that the gardai didn't take his complaint seriously or deal with it appropriately.

Wasn't Ian Bailey able to make a complaint? I would expect Bowes and Cosgrave to make a complaint about the handling to GSOC.

McMurphy

Ahhhh, hard to beat an auld bit of whistleblower character assassination.....

It's like the Maurice McCabe saga all over again.

Wonder if Bowes name has been "accidentally" copied and pasted into any TUSLA files yet?

Suckit

Marine Layer wrote: »

Knowing who the complainants are,I'm with the government on this one
No precedent should be set for any tom dick or...with unrelated axes to grind
Set it and you're on the road to anarchy
I appreciate thats not what you'd like me to say
But as I said varieties of opinion are always available

He set any precedents in this ongoing distraction when he leaked the material.
The correct and right thing to do by him, when there is a criminal investigation into his antics, is to step aside. That is nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Paddy Cosgrave or anybody else.
You can play the blame game for as long as you want, but it is pointless. Nobody else sent the confidential document while taking it upon themselves to decide what is or isn't against the law. This is all Leo's own doing. He should step up, hold his hands up and step aside for the criminal investigation to complete. Why wouldn't he?

Marine Layer wrote: »

I think considering he was entitled to mouth the document word for word to any stakeholder gp,whose signing up to it was to everyones benefit,that its not surprising that the bulk of the noise about this is coming from the pirate flag set and the finegaelists
Plenty of the latter here,but at the end of the day,countries cannot be governed by ignoring large sets of voters
The finegaelists,the sinn fein batterer's and the socialists will be working together in various guises in the future like they do on the ground,because none of them are going away

The bulk of the relevant 'noise' as you put it, is coming from the media that are printing the ongoing saga. The nothing story is not a nothing story, and would be over all the sooner if he stepped aside. I have no idea what the pirate flag crew's agenda is (or in fact who they are), nor do I care.
The only thing relevant here is that the Tanaiste is under criminal investigation.
If he could have mouthed the document word for word, then WhyTF didn't he? Or at least give a summary and a link to it online?
Why didn't he whatsapp the document, as he seemed to be using that particular messenger a lot.
Stepping aside for the investigation means just that. Nobody is asking him to resign, or anything else. This ongoing investigation must surely be a burden on him, he could step aside and help them. It must be taking it's toll on other TD's too.

We are going around in circles now. The blame lays on Leo, nobody else. New developments in the case or Leo stepping aside until the investigation concludes are the only real way that this conversation can move forward with it.
You and others constantly blaming people on twitter is ridiculous. The majority of people don't use twitter, and as has been mentioned many times in these forums, it is a cesspit of crap. Admittedly there are some (few) accounts that are relevant and have some information. But for the majority that you speak of, the pirates etc. they also will have no bearing on the outcome, so you can ignore them.

Shebean

Marine Layer wrote: »

Maryann's comment is childish
Maithú's texts weren't exactly too clever/adult like either in my opinion
I'd support the investigation being as thorough as possible
The explanation on the handing over of the document is plausible
A Taoiseach would have been perfectly entitled to call in anyone involved to update them on the contract as it affects them and to solicit support for it
We've learned in this process that if you are taking short cuts with no malicious intent and someone spurned in business dealings or whatever gets their hands on an angle,it gets messy untill its cleared up
Thats my opinion
Other opinions may vary

The health department was engaging in confidential negotiations with one union and Varadkar leaked a copy of the confidential, not yet finalised, negotiation document to the head of a rival union, not engaged in those negotiations. He was also an acquaintance of that rival union head.
It was inexcusable and crony behaviour. It likely damaged trust for future negotiations. It set a very bad precedent ongoing.
It may even be criminal.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Ahhhh, hard to beat an auld bit of whistleblower character assassination.....

It's like the Maurice McCabe saga all over again.

Wonder if Bowes name has been "accidentally" copied and pasted into any TUSLA files yet?

I was expecting your reply
Are you saying no consideration at all should be taken of motivation
Free for all, I don't like you, so I'll jump out from the long grass and mess with you?

Shebean

Shebean wrote: »

The health department was engaging in confidential negotiations with one union and Varadkar leaked a copy of the confidential, not yet finalised, negotiation document to the head of a rival union, not engaged in those negotiations. He was also an acquaintance of that rival union head.
It was inexcusable and crony behaviour. It likely damaged trust for future negotiations. It set a very bad precedent ongoing.
It may even be criminal.

That's being economical with the facts, the contract was to be offered to all gp's and needed to be accepted by a majority of gp's or not be worth a tuppeny damn
That objective was achieved

blanch152

Shebean wrote: »

The health department was engaging in confidential negotiations with one union and Varadkar leaked a copy of the confidential, not yet finalised, negotiation document to the head of a rival union, not engaged in those negotiations. He was also an acquaintance of that rival union head.
It was inexcusable and crony behaviour. It likely damaged trust for future negotiations. It set a very bad precedent ongoing.
It may even be criminal.

A one-eyed description of events.

Larbre34

McMurphy wrote: »

Ahhhh, hard to beat an auld bit of whistleblower character assassination.....

It's like the Maurice McCabe saga all over again.

Wonder if Bowes name has been "accidentally" copied and pasted into any TUSLA files yet?

Any reason it should have?

No, don't answer that, I'd hate to have to accuse you of assassinating the character of a whistleblower.

Suckit

Suckit wrote: »

He set any precedents in this ongoing distraction when he leaked the material.
The correct and right thing to do by him, when there is a criminal investigation into his antics, is to step aside. That is nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Paddy Cosgrave or anybody else.
You can play the blame game for as long as you want, but it is pointless. Nobody else sent the confidential document while taking it upon themselves to decide what is or isn't against the law. This is all Leo's own doing. He should step up, hold his hands up and step aside for the criminal investigation to complete. Why wouldn't he?


The bulk of the relevant 'noise' as you put it, is coming from the media that are printing the ongoing saga. The nothing story is not a nothing story, and would be over all the sooner if he stepped aside. I have no idea what the pirate flag crew's agenda is (or in fact who they are), nor do I care.
The only thing relevant here is that the Tanaiste is under criminal investigation.
.

LOL, that this has nothing to do with Paddy Cosgrave, who it is reported introduced Bowes to the village and was interviewed by the team
LOL, that the noise is coming from the media, they are reporting the facts of the investigation as told to them by their sources
LOL at the notion the bulk of the noise isn't coming from the pirate flag set who think they're relevant, but like me and you, they aren't, they're niche's on the Internet, seen too much by you and me as we hang around in the same space
Apologies in advance for my use of the Lol there, it's just, I hold a polar opposite opinion to you here and ain't offended by your opinions, disagreement is healthy

McMurphy

Larbre34 wrote: »

Any reason it should have?

No, don't answer that, I'd hate to have to accuse you of assassinating the character of a whistleblower.

That was your whoosh moment Lar....you seem to be confusing Cosgrave with Bowes, Bowes is the actual whistleblower in this case, because Paddy Cosgrave may not be a Leoite, doesn't take any legitimacy away from what Bowes blew the whistle about.

There has been earlier attempts at character assassination of OTuathail also in this thread, also by Leoites, and that's for no other reason than OTuathail seems to have been the one that got sloppy, and landed Leo in the crap.

Cosgrave not being a fan of Leo's has the square root of absolutely nothing to do with the veracity of Bowes revelation's, and whether or not Leo has committed any offence, that's the job of the DPP and our courts to decide. Not Cosgrave, Leo or randomners on the internet thankfully.

Bit more context and details surrounding the reasons the latest phones have been seized and why the fundraising event was mentioned - the publican etc etc.

The garda investigation into the leaking of a confidential government contract by Leo Varadkar is examining statements he made to officers and the Dail.

The tanaiste has publicly played down his friendship with Maitiu Ó Tuathail, the doctor who obtained a copy of a confidential government contract from Varadkar in 2019 when he was taoiseach. Ó Tuathail told gardai the two were friends and often met socially.

This has become a central line of investigation for the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation, which is investigating Varadkar for passing a copy of a proposed contract between the Department of Health and the Irish Medical Organisation to Ó Tuathail, a former leader of the rival National Association of General Practitioners (NAGP).

Detectives are examining whether the leak constitutes a breach of the Official Secrets Act or the Criminal Justice (Corruption Offences) Act 2018, which makes it an offence to provide documents bestowing influence to friends.

In a statement to the Dail about the issue last November, Varadkar said “people like to exaggerate the nature of their relationships” and “inflate their own influence” after details of the leak were published in the Village magazine.


Officers begin quizzing people who texted GP in Varadkar leak inquiry
Leo Varadkar rejected as “false and without foundation and deeply offensive” any suggestion that he had anything to gain personally from disclosing a government contract
Leo Varadkar rejected as “false and without foundation and deeply offensive” any suggestion that he had anything to gain personally from disclosing a government contract
SAM BOAL/ROLLINGNEWS.IE
John Mooney
Friday May 14 2021, 12.01am BST, The Times
The garda investigation into the leaking of a confidential government contract by Leo Varadkar is examining statements he made to officers and the Dail.

The tanaiste has publicly played down his friendship with Maitiu Ó Tuathail, the doctor who obtained a copy of a confidential government contract from Varadkar in 2019 when he was taoiseach. Ó Tuathail told gardai the two were friends and often met socially.

This has become a central line of investigation for the National Bureau of Criminal Investigation, which is investigating Varadkar for passing a copy of a proposed contract between the Department of Health and the Irish Medical Organisation to Ó Tuathail, a former leader of the rival National Association of General Practitioners (NAGP).

Detectives are examining whether the leak constitutes a breach of the Official Secrets Act or the Criminal Justice (Corruption Offences) Act 2018, which makes it an offence to provide documents bestowing influence to friends.

In a statement to the Dail about the issue last November, Varadkar said “people like to exaggerate the nature of their relationships” and “inflate their own influence” after details of the leak were published in the Village magazine.

“Friends and acquaintances and supporters may claim to be closer to you than they really are. This is clearly a big part of this story,” Varadkar told the Dail.

The tánaiste also said he passed on the document only to encourage the NAGP to sign up to the same deal but he rejected as “false and without foundation and deeply offensive” any suggestion that he had anything to gain personally from the disclosure.

Statements provided by both men to gardai are being checked against witness statements, and data and call logs extracted from their mobile phones to establish the veracity of both Varadkar’s and Ó Tuathail’s statements. Gardai have already concluded that on occasion both men mixed in the same circles and sometimes attended the same social events. The inquiry has also established that Ó Tuathail is a good friend of Matt Barrett, Varadkar’s partner.

Gardai have now begun questioning people who texted and called Ó Tuathail at relevant times in an attempt to gather more information on the issue.

Detectives yesterday interviewed one witness because he texted Ó Tuathail when information about the leak was first published. The witness had urged Ó Tuathail to say nothing if questioned in what amounted to a passing remark. The witness, from Galway, was identified from texts extracted from a mobile phone which Ó Tuathail surrendered to gardai after he was questioned last month.

Yesterday it emerged that gardai seized a mobile phone from another witness, a Dublin publican who Ó Tuathail texted about his friendship with Varadkar last year. The texts concerned a tweet about a charity fundraiser which Varadkar shared on his official account at Ó Tuathail’s request. This witness was questioned about whether he believed Ó Tuathail was a close friend of Varadkar’s, or just an acquaintance.

Detectives paid the witness €1,066 in compensation to purchase a replacement Microsoft One phone before using a warrant to seize the phone to lawfully obtain the texts. Such payments are occasionally made by gardai to witnesses to replace technology, which gardai believe contains important evidence.

Gardai are due to interview more witnesses today as part of the investigation into the unauthorised disclosure.

OTuathail is most definitely Leo's weak link in this. Not being a politician, he most probably hasn't covered his tracks enough, and it's his interactions with others that seem to be what is exposing them.

Any wonder Leo looks like he's aged about ten years lately, I'd say he's feeling the pinch here.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

There has been earlier attempts at character assassination of OTuathail also in this thread, also by Leoites

In all honesty,MoT has been character assinated by the pirate set too...
I've no issue commenting that his texts look needy and immature

OTuathail is most definitely Leo's weak link in this. Not being a politician, he most probably hasn't covered his tracks enough, and it's his interactions with others that seem to be what is exposing them.

That presupposes mallace aforethought in all this,which of course hasn't been established at all

Any wonder Leo looks like he's aged about ten years lately, I'd say he's feeling the pinch here.

I don't think he's aged at all tbh,he was looking well the other day with the new hair cut actually
If you are a politician who goes up for election ,you have to expect and be able for hassle like this episode
I personally wouldn't do it for love or money but admire anyone that does regardless of their hue

McMurphy

Marine Layer wrote: »

In all honesty,MoT has been character assinated by the pirate set too...
I've no issue commenting that his texts look needy and immature

Not seen much of (if any at all) that myself, can you provide any examples?

That presupposes mallace aforethought in all this,which of course hasn't been established at all

Eh.

I don't think he's aged at all tbh,he was looking well the other day with the new hair cut actually
If you are a politician who goes up for election ,you have to expect and be able for hassle like this episode
I personally wouldn't do it for love or money but admire anyone that does regardless of their hue

From the Irish Times story today.



June 2020.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Not seen much of (if any at all) that myself, can you provide any examples?

Yes,the leo the liar tag,I don't think you've missed it

Eh.



From the Irish Times story today.



June 2020.

The one on top was pre hair cut
If I took a photo of you ,months without a haircut whilst frowning,you'd probably ask for deletion

tobsey

Shebean wrote: »

The health department was engaging in confidential negotiations with one union and Varadkar leaked a copy of the confidential, not yet finalised, negotiation document to the head of a rival union, not engaged in those negotiations. He was also an acquaintance of that rival union head.
It was inexcusable and crony behaviour. It likely damaged trust for future negotiations. It set a very bad precedent ongoing.
It may even be criminal.

The negotiations were confidential up until 5 days before varadkar leaked the document, when the main details were printed in all the national newspapers. There was no victim here, not the state, not the GP unions, nobody was at a loss over this. There’s a potential gain that in doing so he helped get the deal passed, but we may never know that. Some are seeing this as an opportunity to weaken varadkar, that’s all. There’s no great injustice that needs to be resolved.