Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

McMurphy

Marine Layer wrote: »

Well,I can say that also
And guess who supported him too?
Leo


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/whistleblowers-welcome-tribute-from-varadkar-1.1732769

Wonder if Leo reckons Bowes is "distinguished", or does he reserve such niceties and compliments only for whistleblowers he can bandwagon on?

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

Wonder if Leo reckons Bowes is "distinguished", or does he reserve such niceties and compliments only for whistleblowers he can bandwagon on?

I don't think Leo classifies them as the same at all,you are right in that respect
I'd share that view
I'm not commenting anymore unless theres something new,I'll find other things to be at

blanch152

Marine Layer wrote: »

I don't think Leo classifies them as the same at all,you are right in that respect
I'd share that view
I'm not commenting anymore unless theres something new,I'll find other things to be at

I don't think anyone classifies all whistleblowers as the same. Some whistleblowing complaints are vexatious, others are frivilous, separating them from the serious ones is the issue.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't think anyone classifies all whistleblowers as the same. Some whistleblowing complaints are vexatious, others are frivilous, separating them from the serious ones is the issue.

Well duhhhh.


Sure didn't Martin Callinan think they were "disgusting" - and as per Muhahahas posts above, didn't you yourself try and cast aspersions on McCabe's character.

Rows Grower

nialler1978 wrote: »

2014, lovely, is that around the time or long before he spoke in the dáil against gay marriage and the importance of a child having a mother and father? He’s so full of integrity, I’d imagine tribute to McCabe was completely genuine.

Whoah, are you serious?

Shebean

To be fair he did change his stance when it was clear the issue for was becoming very popular.
Here he is at a pride event arm in arm with an unidentified stranger.

nialler1978

Rows Grower wrote: »

Whoah, are you serious?

FrancieBrady

Shebean wrote: »

To be fair he did change his stance when it was clear the issue for was becoming very popular.
Here he is at a pride event arm in arm with an unidentified stranger.

One of the reasons a party leader will provoke much dislike is when it becomes clear they are 'career politicians' rather than 'conviction politicians'.

Lots of leaders fake it successfully and Leo fooled some that he is a conviction politician, but the fact is, he is an out and out career politician. If it's fashionable, politically expedient or gets him to where he wants to go, then Leo will be all for it, turning volte-face on issues at the drop of a hat, if necessary.

Fann Linn

nialler1978 wrote: »

Leo speaks with forked tongue surprise.

IngazZagni

Fann Linn wrote: »

Leo speaks with forked tongue surprise.

Do people not have a right to change their opinion? I used to be against abortion. However through learning and understanding the issue more and hearing harrowing stories from women I'm now in support of it.
Do I have a forked tongue?

If you think I do then Sinn Fein also have a forked tongue as they used to be against it as well. The world modernises and opinions and views change. That's a good thing.

expectationlost

Varadkar leak inquiry widens as more people may have had access to document after leak
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/varadkar-leak-inquiry-widens-as-more-people-may-have-had-access-todocument-after-leak-40430765.html

Gardaí investigating the Tánaiste’s leaking of a confidential Government document to a friend have extended their inquiry after establishing that more people may have had access to the document after it was leaked.

are they going to investigate Matt giving it to other people? rather then investigating Varadkar.

Shebean

expectationlost wrote: »

Varadkar leak inquiry widens as more people may have had access to document after leak
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/varadkar-leak-inquiry-widens-as-more-people-may-have-had-access-todocument-after-leak-40430765.html are they going to investigate Matt giving it to other people? rather then investigating Varadkar.

I would guess the further is was spread would be more problematic for the person leaked it. Seems to be an expanding investigation.


or some effort to look into a case of wasting Garda time.

jmcc

expectationlost wrote: »

Varadkar leak inquiry widens as more people may have had access to document after leak
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/varadkar-leak-inquiry-widens-as-more-people-may-have-had-access-todocument-after-leak-40430765.html are they going to investigate Matt giving it to other people? rather then investigating Varadkar.

The Corruption legislation rather than the OSA being the main part of the investigation now?

Regards...jmcc

Rows Grower

He's starting to act even more bizarrely now, for the good of the nation it really is time for him to step aside while this ongoing investigation takes its course.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/crackdown-on-cuckoo-funds-buying-up-housing-estates-leads-to-split-in-coalition-40443325.html

Bullocks

Rows Grower wrote: »

He's starting to act even more bizarrely now, for the good of the nation it really is time for him to step aside while this ongoing investigation takes its course.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/crackdown-on-cuckoo-funds-buying-up-housing-estates-leads-to-split-in-coalition-40443325.html

I wouldn't call his behaviour bizarre or want him to step aside just for asking what he asked.
Fair enough the housing needs work done but would you kick health behind it for awhile in the middle of covid?
Indeed the government have been slack enough on their handling of this cyber attack, could be another attack around the corner that would be even more devastating and they have alot to do there.
If every TD that questioned another party was called bizarre and made step down there wouldn't be a Sinn Féin!

Suckit

Bullocks wrote: »

I wouldn't call his behaviour bizarre or want him to step aside just for asking what he asked.
Fair enough the housing needs work done but would you kick health behind it for awhile in the middle of covid?
Indeed the government have been slack enough on their handling of this cyber attack, could be another attack around the corner that would be even more devastating and they have alot to do there.
If every TD that questioned another party was called bizarre and made step down there wouldn't be a Sinn Féin!

Regardless of what he is asking etc.. He has brought an unwanted distraction to the Government, they are trying get work done, he has other things going on with the investigation, also him being in that position means the investigators can't do their job as thoroughly as they should. For those reasons and more, he should step aside until the investigation has concluded. TBH, it would probably suit Leo at this stage to step aside, he can claim he no hand in whatever follows. Unless of course people start to like and respect Cuckoo funds, then he can say he started them coming here.. :rolleyes:

Bullocks

Suckit wrote: »

Regardless of what he is asking etc.. He has brought an unwanted distraction to the Government, they are trying get work done, he has other things going on with the investigation, also him being in that position means the investigators can't do their job as thoroughly as they should. For those reasons and more, he should step aside until the investigation has concluded. TBH, it would probably suit Leo at this stage to step aside, he can claim he no hand in whatever follows. Unless of course people start to like and respect Cuckoo funds, then he can say he started them coming here.. :rolleyes:

Why can't the investigators do a thorough job while he is doing his?
As for it being an unwanted distraction I'm not sure how distracted the govt are by it TBH. I haven't seen anyone coming out saying they're unable to do their jobs because this investigation

Bullocks

Bullocks wrote: »

Why can't the investigators do a thorough job while he is doing his?
As for it being an unwanted distraction I'm not sure how distracted the govt are by it TBH. I haven't seen anyone coming out saying they're unable to do their jobs because this investigation

The posts are variations of the same venting by supporters of parties who don't share the same voter catchment as FG
Centrist or right voters meander around parties or independents that run a steady no shock ship for them
FF used have a cohort of the left voting for it,thats dwindling,sucked into parties better focused on their needs more so as opposed to wider scopes
We're here on the internet,we must expect that other peoples views will vary

Shebean

Marine Layer wrote: »

The posts are variations of the same venting by supporters of parties who don't share the same voter catchment as FG
Centrist or right voters meander around parties or independents that run a steady no shock ship for them
FF used have a cohort of the left voting for it,thats dwindling,sucked into parties better focused on their needs more so as opposed to wider scopes
We're here on the internet,we must expect that other peoples views will vary

While generalisation based on assumed party lines might be a convenient way of explaining away criticism it ignores a number of issues such as the fact that there was a huge shift in voting trends last election which goes in the face of party dictated bias for bias sake and of course the elephant in the room, the leaking of a confidential government document by a minister to a crony, how ever people might try justify it.
I'd imagine some people from all parties and none would have a legitimate issue with that. To believe it's strictly related to party lines or biases is as I say convenient but not logical.
There's a trend with FG online and in office to hand wave away any and all criticism citing bias regardless of the issue, I think you are falling for that.

Suckit

Bullocks wrote: »

Why can't the investigators do a thorough job while he is doing his?
As for it being an unwanted distraction I'm not sure how distracted the govt are by it TBH. I haven't seen anyone coming out saying they're unable to do their jobs because this investigation

The investigators would have to ask other officials that were in office at the time questions about what was going on etc. did they see xyz. With Leo sitting as Tanaiste he could easily taint any investigation. People might not come forward so quickly with information, others may not want to answer questions for fear of repercussions among other things. We have seen what happened to Kate O'Connell when she supported the other guy. We know Leo can throw a tantrum. Not even it being him, it should be common sense that he can cause obstruction being there..
People being questioned and an ongoing investigation is a distraction, Its not up to you or I to decide how much of a distraction, but a month or so ago, it was a big one. Now, it doesn't seem like much of one, but the investigation is ongoing.

Marine Layer wrote: »

The posts are variations of the same venting by supporters of parties who don't share the same voter catchment as FG
Centrist or right voters meander around parties or independents that run a steady no shock ship for them
FF used have a cohort of the left voting for it,thats dwindling,sucked into parties better focused on their needs more so as opposed to wider scopes
We're here on the internet,we must expect that other peoples views will vary

You yourself said that the investigators should be able to perform a thorough investigation.
No venting here. I have simply stated before, and since, that he should step aside so that their investigation can be as thorough as possible.
It does get to sound a little repetitive, but when the questions are similar it's hard not to.

blanch152

Suckit wrote: »

The investigators would have to ask other officials that were in office at the time questions about what was going on etc. did they see xyz. With Leo sitting as Tanaiste he could easily taint any investigation. People might not come forward so quickly with information, others may not want to answer questions for fear of repercussions among other things. We have seen what happened to Kate O'Connell when she supported the other guy. We know Leo can throw a tantrum. Not even it being him, it should be common sense that he can cause obstruction being there..
People being questioned and an ongoing investigation is a distraction, Its not up to you or I to decide how much of a distraction, but a month or so ago, it was a big one. Now, it doesn't seem like much of one, but the investigation is ongoing.


You yourself said that the investigators should be able to perform a thorough investigation.
No venting here. I have simply stated before, and since, that he should step aside so that their investigation can be as thorough as possible.
It does get to sound a little repetitive, but when the questions are similar it's hard not to.

He could easily taint any investigation? What sort of nonsense is that? It is not like he is the Minister for Justice or sits on a policing board and can influence what the police do.

Shebean

blanch152 wrote: »

He could easily taint any investigation? What sort of nonsense is that? It is not like he is the Minister for Justice or sits on a policing board and can influence what the police do.

He wasn't health minister, involved in or a party to the negotiations between the IMO and the health department when he obtained a confidential negotiation document and passed it to his friend.
It's highly naïve to think a man under criminal investigation being actively involved with colleagues on a daily basis and a party leader in government won't stifle or hinder people coming forward fearing retribution. And that's not even accusing him of trying to.

tobsey

Shebean wrote: »

He wasn't health minister, involved in or a party to the negotiations between the IMO and the health department when he obtained a confidential negotiation document and passed it to his friend.
It's highly naïve to think a man under criminal investigation being actively involved with colleagues on a daily basis and a party leader in government won't stifle or hinder people coming forward fearing retribution. And that's not even accusing him of trying to.

Do you really want to live in a democracy where an elected official has to step down when a case is being investigated against them? There haven’t even been any charges brought. Can you not see how that would be a threat to democracy if the police had to act on a complaint and then a politician had to step down.

Suckit

tobsey wrote: »

Do you really want to live in a democracy where an elected official has to step down when a case is being investigated against them? There haven’t even been any charges brought. Can you not see how that would be a threat to democracy if the police had to act on a complaint and then a politician had to step down.

Nobody is suggesting that he steps down.
It is suggested that he should step aside during the investigation. It is also the right thing to do in a situation like this. Whether or not Leo does the right thing is another matter.

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

He could easily taint any investigation? What sort of nonsense is that? It is not like he is the Minister for Justice or sits on a policing board and can influence what the police do.

Was it not Varadkar who said to McEntee that Woulfe would make a good Supreme Court Judge or words to that effect?

McMurphy

tobsey wrote: »

Do you really want to live in a democracy where an elected official has to step down when a case is being investigated against them? There haven’t even been any charges brought. Can you not see how that would be a threat to democracy if the police had to act on a complaint and then a politician had to step down.

You're trying to gloss over stuff here.

It's not just a case of "a complaint having being made" against Leo, the complaint was made, preliminary investigation took place, and have since been upgraded to a criminal investigation.

Meaning the police definitely have found evidence to take the complaint seriously at least.

Let me ask you, if your elderly parent or young child made cruelty allegations against their carer, would you be happy for that carer to remain in place, being their sole carers whilst they were investigated for the cruelty allegations made by your elderly parent or young child?

Brendan Bendar

McMurphy wrote: »

You're trying to gloss over stuff here.

It's not just a case of "a complaint having being made" against Leo, the complaint was made, preliminary investigation took place, and have since been upgraded to a criminal investigation.

Meaning the police definitely have found evidence to take the complaint seriously at least.

Let me ask you, if your elderly parent or young child made cruelty allegations against their carer, would you be happy for that carer to remain in place, being their sole carers whilst they were investigated for the cruelty allegations made by your elderly parent or young child?

Veering into the realms of mysticism and bong pipes now Randal.

Try to stay in some state of reality.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Veering into the realms of mysticism and bong pipes now Randal.

Try to stay in some state of reality.

I don't think I am at all, and it's not the first time it's been asked in this thread, why would anyone leave someone, who is the subject of an investigation in place at their role where they could interfere with the proceedings of that investigation?

Doesn't matter if it's a politician, or a carer, if they are technically able to interfere with the investigation, you ask them to step aside until the investigation concludes.

I think it's mainly the diehard Leoites that disagree with him being asked to step aside here btw, which is understandable as he's "there guy so to speak", but it doesn't mean it's ok.

McMurphy

McMurphy wrote: »

I think it's mainly the diehard Leoites that disagree with him being asked to step aside.

No, that would be the government
Their strategy is to ignore spurious complaints while the process that deals with them plays out
Meanwhile the complainants and their actors furiously dig up as many names who may have seen the file to keep the Gardai interviewing and lengthen the process as possible
Understandable as when the investigation inevitably ends in my opinion with no charges, there may be slander suits if Leo isn't the bigger man
I'd say he will be though

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

No, that would be the government
Their strategy is to ignore spurious complaints while the process that deals with them plays out
Meanwhile the complainants and their actors furiously dig up as many names who may have seen the file to keep the Gardai interviewing and lengthen the process as possible
Understandable as when the investigation inevitably ends in my opinion with no charges, there may be slander suits if Leo isn't the bigger man
I'd say he will be though

Look, I think it has been adequately pointed out that claiming it is a 'spuious claim' is a politically biased punt.

You cannot be seriously saying that you or even a government can decide that a complaint is 'spurious' before it is investigated?

You are taking a 'punt' on this, please be decent and state it with the three letter...'IMO' before your politically biased punt/bet/hope/ etc.