Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Nobotty

Fann Linn wrote: »

Come to think of it Kelly has been very quiet since this broke, wonder if he has more info.

If anyone has,he has
Let's see what goes on Tuesday
So far,mainly here in this thread is a lot of unsubstantiated respeculation of speculation

Truthvader

joemurt wrote: »

I'd imagine they would prefer that over f+ck the refugees type scum tbf.

Think Leo (whose family are immigrants) will be more sympathetic to refugees than those celebrating Bobby Story's life and times and glorying in the IRA's sensitivity to the rights and lives of others

Pintman Paddy Losty

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Was the document confidential ?

No official document classification system in the civil service. So doesn't really matter what they called it.

The negotiations were over. The deal was done. It wasn't best practice to share the information the way he did. The guy acknowledged that. But it's not some mad conspiracy. The dude had good intentions.

IAMAMORON

caveat emptor wrote: »

All pretty accurate. That’s why the mafia have omertà. Nips it in the bud. Guess they didn’t go through that ritual.

As I said, he has trusted the wrong people, that is the biggest crime going on here.

irishproduce

irishproduce wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the subtext is here.
Genuine question. I'm probably missing something but would appreciate even a one liner, what's the underlying "sting" here.

IMO were negotiating with the govt.
NAGP which had lots of members who walked out of IMO to this new union, were not included in the negotiations.
IMO and gov, agree deal.
Leo gives a copy to the NAGP leader.

All seems innocent enough folly. But I'm well aware there is something nefarious of concern here. Something that isn't said but is being poked at and will be poked at in the dail to find the answer "professionally".

What am I missing?
Appreciate it

Pitting two unions against each other by leaking info to one is pretty nefarious in my view.

Fann Linn

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No official document classification system in the civil service. So doesn't really matter what they called it.

The negotiations were over. The deal was done. It wasn't best practice to share the information the way he did. The guy acknowledged that. But it's not some mad conspiracy. The dude had good intentions.

So that's the FG get outta jail card now? ..good intentions.
You got to be winding us up here.

Pintman Paddy Losty

IAMAMORON wrote: »

As I said, he has trusted the wrong people, that is the biggest crime going on here.

Totally agree. That guy Chay Bowes seems like a nasty enough character.

RandomViewer

Jim Root wrote: »

Yeah, whatever about surviving this, find it hard to see him as the top dog again. FG need to keep in situ for the moment tho I suspect.

Think the whole 3 party deal relies on no leader changes, that's why Ryan stayed and no FFer has moved on Micky Martin,

Truthvader

Deleted User wrote: »

Leos family are from dungarvan,well abbeyside :pac:

Oh I see, why do the Shinners referring to him as "the Indian" then?

Nobotty

twowheelsonly wrote: »

He was never mentioned in any reports nor pictured at that protest. Why would you even throw that in there other than to muddy the waters ?

Poor effort at deflection. 1/10



Any government document with such stamps is by default considered to be subject to the Official Secrets Act.

I know that if I had even disclosed the contents of such a document yesterday (not to mind actually sending on the full document) I would be unemployed today. If a lowly Civil Servant would be sacked for such a breach then it follows that Senior Civil Servants and all Public Servants should be in the same boat. If he doesn't go then he has just handed everybody else a 'Get Out Of Jail' card.

How can a document brought to the members of a negotiating body on an agreement with a government be under the pervue of the official secrets act
Its no longer a state document
They couldn't be when they aren't exclusive to cabinet like say a government position paper,say stating the government's objectives in the negotiation would be for example IMO

twowheelsonly

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No official document classification system in the civil service. So doesn't really matter what they called it.

The negotiations were over. The deal was done. It wasn't best practice to share the information the way he did. The guy acknowledged that. But it's not some mad conspiracy. The dude had good intentions.

Well I deal with confidential and sensitive information every day, some of which is in the Public Domain but not all and not always all the details.

It's ok so if I share that info if I have good intentions ?

Plumbthedepths

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No official document classification system in the civil service. So doesn't really matter what they called it.

The negotiations were over. The deal was done. It wasn't best practice to share the information the way he did. The guy acknowledged that. But it's not some mad conspiracy. The dude had good intentions.

Good effort , but Leo shared information that he shouldn't have and as the leader of the then government he has no excuse whatsoever for his behaviour. It seems confidentiality is only a word used but not actually expected in government.

omega man

twowheelsonly wrote: »

He was never mentioned in any reports nor pictured at that protest. Why would you even throw that in there other than to muddy the waters ?

Poor effort at deflection. 1/10



Any government document with such stamps is by default considered to be subject to the Official Secrets Act.

I know that if I had even disclosed the contents of such a document yesterday (not to mind actually sending on the full document) I would be unemployed today. If a lowly Civil Servant would be sacked for such a breach then it follows that Senior Civil Servants and all Public Servants should be in the same boat. If he doesn't go then he has just handed everybody else a 'Get Out Of Jail' card.

In my industry there would be terms to such confidentiality, in writing and expressly understood by all parties concerned. Simply stamping a document with confidential doesn’t make it so.

Man with broke phone

How much does it cost to get a DP centre approved for yourself?

Has anybody asked Charlie Flannagan?

joemurt

Truthvader wrote: »

Think Leo (whose family are immigrants) will be more sympathetic to refugees than those celebrating Bobby Story's life and times and glorying in the IRA's sensitivity to the rights and lives of others

Hitler was an Austrian. Did he have sympathy for immigrants when he ran Germany?


Maybe you should give thinking a rest.



IRA would not exist if not for British Terrorism. Reap meet sow.

Plumbthedepths

omega man wrote: »

In my industry there would be terms to such confidentiality, in writing and expressly understood by all parties concerned. Simply stamping a document with confidential doesn’t make it so.

Stamping a document with confidential shouldn't mean share with your mates either.

RandomViewer

Truthvader wrote: »

Oh I see, why do the Shinners referring to him as "the Indian" then?

Oh! Look over there,

Pintman Paddy Losty

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Well I deal with confidential and sensitive information every day, some of which is in the Public Domain but not all and not always all the details.

It's ok so if I share that info if I have good intentions ?

Wouldn't be best practice.

Smegging hell

Truthvader wrote: »

Oh I see, why do the Shinners referring to him as "the Indian" then?

Lord Kilclooney is a Shinner?

joemurt

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

He didn't gain, financially

Has Varadkar stated categorically that he has not benefited financially from providing government documents (here or at any other time) to his mates?



Link if so?

twowheelsonly

Nobotty wrote: »

How can a document brought to the members of a negotiating body on an agreement with a government be under the pervue of the official secrets act
Its no longer a state document
They couldn't be when they aren't exclusive to cabinet like say a government position paper,say stating the government's objectives in the negotiation would be for example IMO

All Government deals with Unions are subject to confidentially clauses until officially agreed and released. The fact that this was subject to further amendments /corrections would point to the fact that it wasn't yet ready for release.
(This document probably not covered by 'Official Secrets' but would still be confidential as agreed by all negotiating parties)

twowheelsonly

omega man wrote: »

In my industry there would be terms to such confidentiality, in writing and expressly understood by all parties concerned. Simply stamping a document with confidential doesn’t make it so.

Of course it doesn't but this was negotiations between the Government and the IMO and would 99.99999% certainly be covered by confidentiality agreements as you have outlined above.

Cute Hoor

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It wasn't best practice to share the information the way he did. The guy acknowledged that. The dude had good intentions.

So is it OK for any Government minister to share an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' with his mates, once his intention is good

Signore Fancy Pants

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Hahaha! Top Secret. Watching too many Hollywood films bucko!

The document was published a few weeks later. Clearly it wasn't sensitive.

Too many Hollywood films? That statement alone details that you have zero credibility in this debate rendering your opinions void and ill-educated. You have no comprehension of what a security classified document is or how they are classified. That is 100% fine if someone has no knowledge or experience, I have no issues with that at all.

However, someone like you, in this instance cannot credibly counter an argument. Your opinion is irrelevent and your ascertions are unfounded.

I'm apolitical and have no axe to grind, im not pro or anti LV. However, what he has done is black and white. He broke protocol and released a draft security classified document to someone who was not authorised to recieve it, either at that specific time or in general. If I did the same, I would be locked up. LV should be no different.

It is very clearly a sensitive document as it was security classified by the originator, it doesnt matter if you dont agree.

On the international stage, this does nothing for international relations. Having a leader of the country handling sensitive documents inappropriately. While we will never see the background fall out of this, there will be one.

IAMAMORON

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Well I deal with confidential and sensitive information every day, some of which is in the Public Domain but not all and not always all the details.

It's ok so if I share that info if I have good intentions ?

Just don't get caught, you know the rules.

Baggly

Mod

Bubbaclaus & s1ppy threadbans lifted after discussion by pm.

twowheelsonly

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Wouldn't be best practice.

So I shouldn't be sacked for it ? Great stuff. Thanks Leo.

Signore Fancy Pants

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No official document classification system in the civil service

Incorrect, you should probably stop posting.

jackboy

If anyone did something like this in the workplace they would expect nothing less than instant sacking. Why would we have lower standards for the leader of the country?

IAMAMORON

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Totally agree. That guy Chay Bowes seems like a nasty enough character.

He is a nobody, you get the opportunity of blowing the whistle once, he has a long career ahead of him. Imagine spending the rest of your life getting your backslapped by a troop of lefties winking at you, eugh. He will never get a contract again, he is finished.

But so is Matt Tool, that should be a relief to all. Slimey enough.