Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

caveat emptor

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Too many Hollywood films? That statement alone details that you have zero credibility in this debate rendering your opinions void and ill-educated. You have no comprehension of what a security classified document is or how they are classified. That is 100% fine if someone has no knowledge or experience, I have no issues with that at all.

However, someone like you, in this instance cannot credibly counter an argument. Your opinion is irrelevent and your ascertions are unfounded.

I'm apolitical and have no axe to grind, im not pro or anti LV. However, what he has done is black and white. He broke protocol and released a draft security classified document to someone who was not authorised to recieve it, either at that specific time or in general. If I did the same, I would be locked up. LV should be no different.

It is very clearly a sensitive document as it was security classified by the originator, it doesnt matter if you dont agree.

On the international stage, this does nothing for international relations. Having a leader of the country handling sensitive documents inappropriately. While we will never see the background fall out of this, there will be one.

Well put. Here here. Supposed to operate in his role without fear or favour. This is clearly in the latter column.

It’s fairly open and shut. He either did or he didn’t. A court will decide.

Smegging hell

Cute Hoor wrote: »

So is it OK for any Government minister to share an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' with his mates, once his intention is good

I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord please don't let me be misunderstood

Pintman Paddy Losty

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Incorrect, you should probably stop posting.

The army has a classification system. The civil service doesn't, dude. That's not incorrect.

Rothko

FunLover18 wrote: »

Then why did he scrawl "subject to amendments/change" in big writing across the top.

You won't get an answer

Plumbthedepths

Wonder how Martin will handle this, he got rid of a minister over a bite to eat. Leo has shown he can't be trusted with confidential information slightly more serious than an errant prawn cocktail and a bit of steak.

joemurt

That Business Post article about the inner workings of the NAGP earlier in the thread is an absolutely sickening read.

People should be in prison. Using money for casinos and nightclubs. Madness.

It epitomizes what's wrong with privatization of health care. Patients are nothing more than a vehicle to generate great wealth for themselves at the expense of others, nothing more.

A lot of ''medical professionals'' need to struck off the register for their criminal behaviour - Varadkar included. How could a patient have confidence in someone who behaves in such a fashion?

Cute Hoor

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The army has a classification system. The civil service doesn't, dude. That's not incorrect.

So is it OK for any Government minister to share an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' with his mates, once his intention is good

Plumbthedepths

Cute Hoor wrote: »

So is it OK for any Government minister to share an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' with his mates, once his intention is good

Only FG ones apparently. ;-)

IAMAMORON

Cute Hoor wrote: »

So is it OK for any Government minister to share an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' with his mates, once his intention is good

As I said earlier, it is fine... as long as you don't get caught.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Cute Hoor wrote: »

So is it OK for any Government minister to share an official Government document marked 'Confidential / not for circulation' with his mates, once his intention is good

It's not best practice

s1ippy

What's gotten lost in the buffoonery is that Roderic O'Gorman repeatedly lied to the Dáil in the past few weeks about the mother and baby homes. Norma Foley and Connelogue (agriculture) oversaw the distribution of sanitizer produced by a company who was not previously involved in PPE manufacture which was unsafe and did not disinfect against covid in schools.

Now it transpires that Leo is undermining trade unions and doing favours for "the lads" with regard to Direct Provision contracts.

Either we need an election or just a compete gutting of our political framework so that none of these people are responsible for any important decisions or in any sort of position of influence. The least we deserve is for accountability and resignations to take place when these sickening scandals do occur, not just Paschal Donoghue glad-handing in defense.

RTÉ also reveal themselves to be an utter waste of money in all of this.

Pintman Paddy Losty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fact,its illegal

What law is it against?

Cute Hoor

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

It's not best practice

Not best practice I know, but is it OK

Smegging hell

joemurt wrote: »

That Business Post article about the inner workings of the NAGP earlier in the thread is an absolutely sickening read.

People should be in prison. Using money for casinos and nightclubs. Madness.

It epitomizes what's wrong with privatization of health care. Patients are nothing more than a vehicle to generate great wealth for themselves at the expense of others, nothing more.

A lot of ''medical professionals'' need to struck off the register for their criminal behaviour - Varadkar included. How could a patient have confidence in someone who behaves in such a fashion?

Another piece on the NAGP here. https://www.medicalindependent.ie/a-rollercoaster-ride-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-nagp-2/

Gregor Samsa

Phishnet wrote: »

Why has the "Journal" closed all comments about this incident regarding Leo Varadkar?

Is the Journal a propaganda machine for FG?

Just find it all very unusual!

Because comments on the Journal usually descend into an absolute shïtshow of ignorance, foolishness, lies and insanity (and I’m not taking sides on this issue in saying that - you could have an article about how bunnies are cute and it would happen there), and they don’t have moderators to clean them up or keep people within even the broadest limits of legality, decency and intelligence. Unless they want to be held legally liable for what goes on in there, there sometimes reaches a point where they just have to close them up.

joemurt

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

If I did the same, I would be locked up. LV should be no different.

It is very clearly a sensitive document as it was security classified by the originator, it doesnt matter if you dont agree.

On the international stage, this does nothing for international relations. Having a leader of the country handling sensitive documents inappropriately. While we will never see the background fall out of this, there will be one.

Hear Hear.



Fine Gaels whole USP in past elections was how good they are on the international stage at making deals for the country (Brexit etc). Begs the question; Who else did Varadkar and Co provide documents too to get deals done?



Weren't the farmers shafted on deals with Brazil recently? Stinks. Garda need to react before its to late.

Signore Fancy Pants

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The army has a classification system. The civil service doesn't, dude. That's not incorrect.

Well here's an open source document from the Dept of Finance about security classification.

IAMAMORON

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Well here's an open source document from the Dept of Finance about security classification.

What Finance act does it come under ?

Simple question to answer by the way.

Bubbaclaus

Smegging hell wrote: »

Another piece on the NAGP here. https://www.medicalindependent.ie/a-rollercoaster-ride-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-nagp-2/

Interesting piece here:

Former Minister for Health Leo Varadkar gave the NAGP a cold shoulder following the under-sixes contract stand-off, despite strong pressure from NAGP members and conciliatory overtures from the Association.

However, the next Minister for Health Simon Harris took a more diplomatic approach and eventually invited the NAGP to the table on what was claimed to be a new GP contract. But, it was very clearly stated by its rival that the NAGP was only involved in “discussions and consultation as opposed to real negotiations”.

The NAGP also tried to reconcile with the IMO and made several public and private attempts to get the two organisations to work together or provide a united front, which were rebuffed by the IMO.


So it looks like NAGP had more involvement than we initially thought and it was the Minister for Health that had got them involved, according to this article at least.

This points even more to the idea that Leo providing the NAGP president with the finished document is a non story. The hurlers from the ditch may come out disappointed.

Jinglejangle69

Phishnet wrote: »

Why has the "Journal" closed all comments about this incident regarding Leo Varadkar?

Is the Journal a propaganda machine for FG?

Just find it all very unusual!

Quite the opposite.

Always stories about FG.

Never anything bad about SF or the left.

Sir Oxman

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No official document classification system in the civil service. So doesn't really matter what they called it.

The negotiations were over. The deal was done. It wasn't best practice to share the information the way he did. The guy acknowledged that. But it's not some mad conspiracy. The dude had good intentions.

BiB
Good boy, good boy.

Man with broke phone

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Interesting piece here:

Former Minister for Health Leo Varadkar gave the NAGP a cold shoulder following the under-sixes contract stand-off, despite strong pressure from NAGP members and conciliatory overtures from the Association.

However, the next Minister for Health Simon Harris took a more diplomatic approach and eventually invited the NAGP to the table on what was claimed to be a new GP contract. But, it was very clearly stated by its rival that the NAGP was only involved in “discussions and consultation as opposed to real negotiations”.

The NAGP also tried to reconcile with the IMO and made several public and private attempts to get the two organisations to work together or provide a united front, which were rebuffed by the IMO.


So it looks like NAGP had more involvement than we initially thought and it was the Minister for Health that had got them involved, according to this article at least.

This points even more to the idea that Leo providing the NAGP president with the finished document is a non story. The hurlers from the ditch may come out disappointed.

How many bag of money emojis does it take to warm Leos cold shoulder?

joemurt

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

However, the next Minister for Health Simon Harris took a more diplomatic approach and eventually invited the NAGP to the table on what was claimed to be a new GP contract..

In fact it creates even more questions. Cannot wait for Harris' involvement to appear in the group chat.



The village should do a weekly release all the way up to Christmas. When Varadkar finishes digging his hole on Tuesday I expect more damning screenshots to appear. Must be sweating bullets atm.


Why did Harris reach out to a non licensed union? Is he connected to O Tuithail too?

s1ippy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8t6KRstWIk

Bubbaclaus

joemurt wrote: »

In fact it creates even more questions. Cannot wait for Harris' involvement to appear in the group chat.



The village should do a weekly release all the way up to Christmas. When Varadkar finishes digging his hole on Tuesday I expect more damning screenshots to appear. Must be sweating bullets atm.


Why did Harris reach out to a non licensed union? Is he connected to O Tuithail too?

I'm not seeing what you are saying. Licenced to actualyl negotiate as a trade union or not, they were a body representing 40% of GPs and inviting them to the table for a GP agreement is completely logical.

If they had been kept in the cold completely then bigger questions would have been raised.

I think people need to realise also that GPs are self employed, which makes the union dynamic very different.

joemurt

And Chay Bowes the whistleblower deserves a medal for this.
What he'll get though is the McCabe treatment.

boombang

Originally Posted by boombang

RTE Radio One's This Week are covering the issue, but the news bulletin beforehand made no mention of it. I continue to be unimpressed by RTE.

Jim Root wrote: »

There’s a detailed article on the website with fresh quotes from various people this morning.

Grand, but that doesn't take away from the issue that this is a big issue and does merit making the news. Those listening to the radio news might not be reading the website.

I have so little faith in RTE.

I Am The Law

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm really surprised at the levels of outrage on this?

The document he shared wasn't sensitive. He didn't gain, financially or otherwise, from sharing it. It wasn't best practice or the appropriate channel to share, but at the end of the day, most of the information was public at that stage.

People really think he needs to resign over this? Ha!

We're not dealing with the raw greed of old school politicians here, it's a far more worrying motivation.

foundation10

tobsey wrote: »

Did the NAGP have an office? I’m not saying they did or didn’t, but if they were a small organisation then sending it to one of the directors at an address given doesn’t seem that unusual

Yes the NAGP had an office on Kildare Street, Leo could have even popped it into the letter box himself:D

thecomedian

I Am The Law wrote: »

We're not dealing with the raw greed of old school politicians here, it's a far more worrying motivation.

What are we dealing with here?