Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118221996#Comment_118221996

I can laugh at this post because I do actually know a lot more about the back story here but will obviously be leaving you none the wiser as it's an internal FG matter,a small story of over a week ago

KfW's rejection of the request from the Village was posted on his twitter feed btw

He has the measure of them

I lol'ed anyway

He's well able to mix it with whoever said the kk yfg was full of Homophobic Hicks but will know it wasn't me

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222737#Comment_118222737

Sure there's nothing upthread or in the public domain about the KKYFG situation bar tittle tattle really

Its being dealt with internally like any party except there's less in the public domain about it than matters about other parties or indeed other issues since concluded with,in FG

It matters not a jot obviously to me that posters here wouldn't believe that I might know the back story

I don't think Anything this side of the thread says re FG or Varadkar has ever been believed by the other side

Both look bitter and twisted but of course outside of here neither side are

Fluffy adorable pets we all are really (I hope)

Now I'm bored

I'll be back when matters conclude

BKelly21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223095#Comment_118223095

But there is Information about the KKYFG branch in the public domain, I've been reading about it in this thread, others have been discussing it in this thread (including yourself might I add)

When you say "back story", from what I can garner, Foley-Walsh was among those in the Kilkenny branch calling for Varadkars resignation (Doubtful anyone in here will be lining up to assign "homophobic reasons" for him doing so mind you) he obviously is one of the YFG members who has been "terminated" by the N.E who claim he (and other Kilkenny branch YFG members actually resigned) Foley-Walsh and others publicly dispute this claim by the N.E.

As per linked to article up the thread, assumedly those "resignations" or "terminations" (depending on which story you choose to believe) led to the resignations of the "Senior Members" namely Dylan Hutchinson, Gary O'Donovan and Audrey O'Leary, who made a less than subtle statement as to their departures.

"they said the National Executive is “is dysfunctional and the thoughts and opinions of all are not welcome” and said recent decisions made without “discussion or consultation” has made their positions “untenable”.

They said they cannot associate themselves with the “current decision-making process within the current YFG Executive”.

From the same article.

The resignations come days after the Kilkenny youth branch of Young Fine Gael called on Tánaiste Leo Varadkar to resign as party leader. The branch later said that members of its committee had been removed by Young Fine Gael, however, a spokesperson for Young Fine Gael said it received notification from both the secretary and chair of the branch, announcing their resignation.

No one is asking us to accept this might be just unfortunate coincidental timing, right? Surely no one is trying to insult our intelligence here, right?

(I wonder if I was to waste even the smallest amount of my precious time, applying a bit of research here, would I "uncover" that these 3 fresh "resignees" would be ally's or supporters of Mr Foley-Walsh? )

This isn't exactly "the Butler did it with a drain pipe in the drawings room" stuff here, all the information is most probably freely available information out there on the internet.

How it appears to me - FG don't particularly appreciate dissent and outspokenness. But I'll be damned if watching them was their dirty linen in public isn't extremely entertaining.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223493#Comment_118223493

How many times do the same articles have to be quoted in support of a tired old trope?

Seriously, like, nobody has addressed the point that this is nothing compared to the wiping out of MLAs in other parties for example.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224413#Comment_118224413

I'd imagine that it's because (as you're so fond of reminding people) the subject of the thread is allegations made about Leo Varadkar. There are plenty of threads on which you can (and indeed do) discuss what happens in other parties. You're often the first to accuse others of deflection should they make a comparison to the current government parties on those, so I'm quite disappointed to see you do the same yourself on this one.

To paraphrase your usual compadre on thread, it seems an awful lot like a rabbit hole......Not terribly relevant to the Leo Varadkar story in The Village, is it? Unlike the YFG issue which is directly related; even if one believes it isn't terribly significant, it is certainly relevant.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219701#Comment_118219701

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219701#Comment_118219701

It’s of interest that some of the comments/opinions are asking for Varadkers head ie resign as Taoiseach and as leader of FG. We now know that a number of politicians were ‘ hung out to dry ‘ by boardies , audio visual media and the opposition on information that was not correct - . Such high profile cases as Francis Fitzgerald andAlan Shatter come to mind. CAN WE NOT WAIT until the current investigation comes to its conclusion and any follow up from that.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222337#Comment_118222337

Allegedly hacked a rival is worth discussing?

Where do you stand on a Taoiseach leaking confidential government negotiation documents to his friend the head of a rival union?

Its not like paddy is looking to be Taoiseach.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225789#Comment_118225789

He's been invited, and accepted something else though.

https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1463931332967469060?t=30dVzH4yAzfFhjITUmNq1A&s=19

That'll go down well lol

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118226672#Comment_118226672

Do we think Coveney was up to his old tricks to stick it to Varadkar? :)

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224803#Comment_118224803

Fitzgerald caused Varadkar to mislead the Dail. We already know Varadkar leaked. Like with Fitzgerald, there is absolutely no vindication coming.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225789#Comment_118225789

The difference here is that there is a sworn court document containing the allegations against Cosgrave. A gossipy piece in a tabloid magazine doesn't compare.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118226999#Comment_118226999

Very armchair theatre.

Weren't you talking about statements given to Garda the other week? I'm Sure they were 'sworn'.

The story was released into the public domain. Varadkar apologised. More than gossip. Did he sue? No, he never.

You are comparing some IT lad to the then Taoiseach. Are you going under the mistaken belief that what paddy does exonerates Varadkar? FYI, It doesn't.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227354#Comment_118227354

You have a very creative mind, because you are making up things I never said.

Do you have the details from those statements given to the Gardai? No, I didn't think so.

If you did, then we could have a conversation about them. However, the point I am making remains true - the evidence against Cosgrave is from sworn court documents, the evidence against Varadkar is not.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227372#Comment_118227372

You never posted about the statements made to Garda regarding Varadkar's criminal investigation?

So what? I couldn't give a fiddlers about Cosgrave. What a private citizen does has nothing on a Taoiseach leaking confidential documents to his friend.

Am I also imagining your distaste for people discussing the affairs of private citizens? Lol.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118226876#Comment_118226876

Lol, an interesting theory Bruce.

Zappone will be green with envy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227372#Comment_118227372

You were trying to imply Varadkar was (as Taoiseach) entitled to share the documents with whomever he seen fit.

You were also trying to suggest (a wet day later) Varadkar was a private citizen, and should be left alone. Do not try telling me "I'm making things up" - because everything is here in this very thread ready to be quoted.

Changes from one day to the next with you.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227424#Comment_118227424

I guess you have never heard of Article 34 of the Constitution:

" Justice shall be administered in courts established by law by judges appointed in the manner provided by this Constitution, and, save in such special and limited cases as may be prescribed by law, shall be administered in public."

Once those affadavits become court documents, they are no longer the private affairs of private citizens, unless a judge orders them sealed.

As for the Garda statements, all I posted about was their ever-changing nature according to media reports. If you do happen to have access to the latest versions, please let us know what is in them and we can discuss.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227511#Comment_118227511

Your continual attempts to try and catch out other posters by manipulating and misrepresenting their previous posts has become excruciatingly tedious at this point and only serves to distract from discussion of the real issue.

Like others, you seem to be unaware of the constitutional requirement for justice to happen in public, and that therefore when an issue goes before the courts, it is no longer a private matter of a private individual but a matter of public interest, unless the judge decides to make it a private matter.

Therefore, there is a distinction between Leo Varadkar as a private citizen not before the courts, and Paddy Cosgrave whose public business dealings are before the courts. So to sum up, you are making up a facetious comparison.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118228042#Comment_118228042

Eh there's no "manipulating" and no "misrepresenting" of what you posted. I'm sorry that you find being reminded of you not knowing if you're coming or going, but that's just tough shît.

You used "he's the Taoiseach" line to claim Varadkar was fully entitled to share confidential documents, his defence.

You also then used "he's a private citizen" as a reason we should stop discussing him. These are posts you made in this thread one contradicts the other.

Like others, you seem to be unaware of the constitutional requirement for justice to happen in public, and that therefore when an issue goes before the courts, it is no longer a private matter of a private individual but a matter of public interest, unless the judge decides to make it a private matter.

**NEWSFLASH**

It's not before the courts, and if you still want to cling to your original claim that he was entitled to share the documents as he was wearing his Taoseach hat at the time, well then, don't come swanning into the thread implying he's a "private citizen" and we should cease discussing him.

If Leo, as Taoseach, and according to you "was authorised as such to share the documents" - he's fair game to discuss in here.

If Leo is a "private citizen we shouldn't be discussing", well then there goes his "he was entitled to share it as Taoseach" defence.

You want it every which way, and are now trying to shout FOUL when that's pointed out to you.

You're gas, but rest assured little contradictions like these will be revisited by me, and brought to your attention when needs be.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227996#Comment_118227996

All i said was you were giving out about the statements made to Garda but now holdng up the ones made about your friend paddy.

You also were a champion on behalf of the private citizen not having their business aired on boards, but that was when it damaged your team of course :)

BKelly21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118228042#Comment_118228042

Blanch to be fair, you can't honestly expect to start jumping up and down in a thread accusing people of "manipulating" what you posted just because your posts are "problematic" (for want of a kinder word) or uncomfortable for you.

The post you quoted didn't even mention "Paddy Cosgraves case", nevermind try to compare it with Varadkars. (Irony overload there I'm sure)

I think pointing out the inconsistenies in your two stances on Varadkar that he is both Leo Varadkar - Taoiseach , therefore entitled to release documents and Leo Varadkar, Private Citizen so leave him alone" do indeed clash and contradict one another.

How can you, with a straight face hope to hang on to a shred of integrity claiming he's a private citizen, not before the courts, but at the same time claim as Taoseach he was entitled to do what he did?

There's a glaring contradiction there. And one doesn't need to manipulate your posts, nor misrepresent them either, in order to point out the contradictions.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118228434#Comment_118228434

(1) I have never said that people can't discuss anything in the public domain.

(2) There are court documents, extracts of which have been published by newspapers in relation to the credibility and motivations of Paddy Cosgrave. That makes them fair comment.

(3) We have no knowledge of what is in the Garda statements, I certainly am not aware of newspapers quoting from them. The most recent thing we have heard about them is that they are continually changing. They are also Garda statements, we don't know if they will lead to anything in the courts, so there should be considered carefully, they certainly don't have the status of sworn court affadavits (as anyone who has ever sworn an affadavit will attest).

(4) Yes, private citizens include the Taoiseach, and they are entitled to their privacy in relation to their private affairs. That is why I found references in the past on here to the Taoiseach's partner as grossly offensive. However, if the private business of an individual ends up before the courts, it is no longer their private business, unless the court decides to keep it private. That makes them fair comment (see 2 above). On the other hand, there was a thread on the family member of a former politician recently which had zero of public interest just prurient curiosity.

(5) There is nothing to stop you and others conversing and posting about rumours and gossip, but I can feel free to ignore it if I choose or to call it out as such.

(6) So despite some posters trying to make the thread about me, there is nothing inconsistent or contradictory in anything I have said or posted, but even if there was, so what? This isn't a court of law where a barrack-room lawyer can parse and analyse your posts to twist them into something else. The thread isn't about whether I am consistent or not, much as some might like it to be, it is about the accusations against the Taoiseach and the credibility or lack of it of those accusations, and those making those accusations.

An Claidheamh

I'd get the impression that baby blueshirt Foley, and his crew, have always disliked official FG's anti-US conservative and (occasional) refusal to fully defer to British tories, that Leo Varadkar represents eg rainbow flags, anti-Brexit, pro-EU, etc

All they have in common is their distaste for the rights of Irish people and Sinn Féin

Maybe Foley wants Flanagan to take over FG

Blueshirt Youth (like their counterparts in the UK) are actually more cultish and right wing than the elders

Sinn Féin general trend in popularity was just the most useful excuse

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232491#Comment_118232491

I've no interest in Paddy and what he says or does won't change what varadkar did.

Is Paddy not entitled to his privacy? If a public representative like Varadkar is?

No rumours. We know Varadkar leaked a confidential government negotiation document with his friend.

Pointing out your hypocrisy isn't twisting.

Not really interested in your flights of fancy. When you make contradictory comments, it'll get mentioned.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232491#Comment_118232491

The threads not about you, correct.

However, your contributions to the thread, and the contradictory nature of them are fair game and completely relevant to the discussion.

You're, on one hand claiming Leo, as Taoseach, could authorise himself to pass documents and information on to whomever he seen fit.

On the other hand, you're claiming Leo Varadkar may be a political, and people might think that means he's fair game to have a go, but you reckon those people are wrong, because he's also a private citizen too.

If you believe he was "authorised as Taoiseach" to pass the confidential information to O'Tuathail, then I'm sorry blanch, but that's it, lights out I'm afraid, you can't then have the opinion we can't be discussing what he did, as he was acting in his capacity of Taoiseach (your opinion)

If he was passing documents to O'Tuathail as a private citizen, then your "authorised himself" defence has been thrown out the window.

TLDR, we're discussing Varadkar passing information to his friend, as Taoiseach (and according to you, he could authorise himself as Taoiseach to do so)

We're not discussing private citizen Varadkar popping into the local centra to buy a packet of digestives blanch.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233021#Comment_118233021

But you aren't pointing out my hypocrisy, you are making up things about another poster. As I have pointed out, and elaborated on, not a single contradictory comment, just hysterical imagination from posters who aren't interested in discussing the issue, just other posters.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233947#Comment_118233947

What did they make up about another poster? You did post contradictory stuff about Varadkar though, that's factually correct and is in this thread ready to be quoted if you need it to be.

If you think Leo Varadkar should escape any sanction or prosecution for passing files marked as confidential to his friend because (your words) " As Taoiseach, he could authorise himself" then you cannot come back with the polar opposite view that he should be afforded privacy as he's also a private citizen. Those two stances are a contradiction of each other.

Also I take note of your claim of people not interested in "discussing the issue" which is strangely contradictory also.

Considering the "issue" (and the thread subject) is that of Varadkar passing information to his friend, which he admitted to, and that has led to him now being the subject of a criminal investigation by the NBCI, and when that gets mentioned usually is replied to with a "going over old boring ground on the head of a pin" and not forgetting being told discussing the subject was "goading and using pseudonyms" by one poster.

It's hard to keep up to be honest.

This morning's polling results will no doubt do Leo's ego wonders too.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118233947#Comment_118233947

You avoided my questions. Thats okay. Tough to be called out on inconsistencies. Coming back and saying you weren't is grand sure.

Varadkar is the type of character Kenny got in on claiming to do away with. Crony, self serving and lying.

He's managed to make FF more electable than FG and do damage to FG. Why youse want to keep him around is beyond me. But I guess when he goes he'll be dirt to youse.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118235494#Comment_118235494

I haven't avoided a single question. I haven't been inconsistent, and have detailed how that is so.

Repeating something doesn't make it true.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238961#Comment_118238961

You said Zappone had a right to privacy as a private citizen. You said Varadkar should be afforded the same.

I asked do you think paddy cosgrave shouldn't?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118238976#Comment_118238976

Of course Paddy Cosgrave has a right to privacy for private business as a private citizen. However, as I have explained repeatedly to you, once an issue is before the courts, it is no longer private business. That applies to Zappone, Cosgrave and Varadkar. Zappone isn't before the courts, Varadkar isn't before the courts, but Cosgrave is, in a civil action regarding his business affairs.

The Constitution provides that our justice system is public, so you can't have a problem with my position, unless you also have a problem with the Constitution.