Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

No, he is answerable to the law. However, the law - Official Secrets Act - allows him to share a confidential document. Furthermore, so long as the purpose he is sharing it for - advancing the Government's interest in this case - is not for his or others' personal gain, then the law - Corruption Offences Act - says he is not committing an offence.

Now, all of that is based on what is publicly known to date. I cannot see any way that he has committed an offence. Now, if Michael Smith, the man with the biggest chip on his shoulder in Ireland, has something more, let's see what it is.

Do you agree then that the Gardai need to look at this very closely?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Nope, don't think there is.

He is the Taoiseach, who should he ask for permission? As I said before, he hardly writes memos to himself, should be look in the mirror?

A civil servant has to ask a Minister, but who should the Taoiseach ask?

What a load of scutter blanch, and you dam well know it.

The Taoiseach isn't some divine being, where he or she can ride roughshod over any one or thing the like.

If they "didn't need permission from anyone" sure then why bother with laws and regulations at all.

Sir Oxman

Andy454 wrote: »

McEntee is useless, allowed a bill through the dail that effectively allows hearsay as evidence of a debt - shocking stuff!!

https://www.matheson.com/news-and-insights/article/a-new-statutory-exception-to-the-rule-against-hearsay

Jesus Christ!

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

There are questions about appropriateness, but to date, all we have is O'Tuathail's representations to Bowes about his personal relationship to Leo. Many a person has bigged up their personal relationship to Ministers etc.

The true nature of the relationship is unknown.

It was used to increase O Tuathail's standing in his organisation.

I Am The Law

blanch152 wrote: »

No, he is answerable to the law. However, the law - Official Secrets Act - allows him to share a confidential document. Furthermore, so long as the purpose he is sharing it for - advancing the Government's interest in this case - is not for his or others' personal gain, then the law - Corruption Offences Act - says he is not committing an offence.

Now, all of that is based on what is publicly known to date. I cannot see any way that he has committed an offence. Now, if Michael Smith, the man with the biggest chip on his shoulder in Ireland, has something more, let's see what it is.

Diggin, diggin, diggin,......... diggin’ our way to Annascaul.

seamus

Leo's backchannel shenanigans finally biting him the arse.

If it doesn't look like he's committed any actual offence and if the "not best practice" defence holds up, I think this will backfire on whoever had the knives out for Leo on this one. He'll be able to spin this as him working clever behind the scenes to secure better agreements for the state.

Whatever the outcome here though he'll be a lot more careful in future about stirring the pot behind the scenes.

THE_SHEEP

Maybe , Leo's intention was to help save " his buddies " union , from going tits up ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/creditors-meeting-hears-nagp-has-almost-400-000-in-debts-1.3933532

Floppybits

Sir Oxman wrote: »

She's simply a drone, nothing special at all.

Its a bit worrying having a drone as the Minister for Justice.

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

It was used to increase O Tuathail's standing in his organisation.

An organisation that no longer exists?

The content of the document was already in the public domain.

weldoninhio

blanch152 wrote: »

Nope, don't think there is.

He is the Taoiseach, who should he ask for permission? As I said before, he hardly writes memos to himself, should be look in the mirror?

A civil servant has to ask a Minister, but who should the Taoiseach ask?

They don't have to "ask" anyone, but all official documentation should have a paper trail and record of who/when it has gone to, for audit purposes.

Shouldn't Micheal Martin know who has been sent what documentation as part of a smooth handover of office? And whoever follows him?

ooter

Lads, the document wasn't couriered according to Patrick o donovan, it was posted, so it's grand.

caveat emptor

Floppybits wrote: »

Its a bit worrying having a drone as the Minister for Justice.

That is scary.

s1ippy

seamus wrote: »

Leo's backchannel shenanigans finally biting him the arse.

If it doesn't look like he's committed any actual offence and if the "not best practice" defence holds up, I think this will backfire on whoever had the knives out for Leo on this one. He'll be able to spin this as him working clever behind the scenes to secure better agreements for the state.

Whatever the outcome here though he'll be a lot more careful in future about stirring the pot behind the scenes.

Michael Smith who wrote the article says there is more on Leo to come. I would imagine on Tuesday afternoon to just coincide with the Dáil questions.

He's finished, all the damage control they're doing now is a waste of time.

smurgen

Deleted User wrote: »

An organisation that no longer exists?

The content of the document was already in the public domain.

He didn't sent it to the organization he sent it to his friends house.

Sir Oxman

Varadkar undermining other ministers didn't just start when he landed the top job.
It's how he got there and I hope FGers understand that.

s1ippy

"The son of a migrant, he knows the issues facing refugees better than anyone."
- Patrick O'Donovan on Claire Byrne.

That just turned my stomach.

timmyntc

blanch152 wrote: »

At what stage does a document widely in circulation no longer be confidential?

Remembering that a secret is not a secret if two people know it, how many people can have or be authorised to have a document before it is no longer confidential?

These are the factors that a court would have to consider.

When it's published by the Author(s) and reclassified as non-restricted.
Doesn't matter how many people have it, or if it's already been leaked. It's still an offence.

wirelessdude01

s1ippy wrote: »

"The son of a migrant, he knows the issues facing refugees better than anyone."
- Patrick O'Donovan on Claire Byrne.

That just turned my stomach.

He does in his ar$e.

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

He didn't sent it to the organization he sent it to his friends house.

Such a close friend that he didn’t know his address?

Mad_maxx

Doctors are the biggest clique in this country, no surprise whatsoever here

FrancieBrady

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Varadkar undermining other ministers didn't just start when he landed the top job.
It's how he got there and I hope FGers understand that.

Could be Coveney's time to bite back here as the ultimate undermined FGer. Any word from him?

Sir Oxman

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Could be Coveney's time to bite back here as the ultimate undermined FGer. Any word from him?

Nothing, zilch.
RTE Junior star Donohoe was wheeled out yesterday though.

Topgear on Dave

seamus wrote: »

Leo's backchannel shenanigans finally biting him the arse.

Indeed. Hoist by his own petard as the saying goes. :pac:

elefant

Deleted User wrote: »

Such a close friend that he didn’t know his address?

I would say I don't know a single one of my friends' full addresses off the top of my head.

Are you trying to suggest Leo doesn't actually know the guy very well?

seamus

s1ippy wrote: »

Michael Smith who quote the article says there is more on Leo to come. I would imagine on Tuesday afternoon to just coincide with the Dáil questions.

He's finished, all the damage control they're doing now is a waste of time.

Really depends on how much the mainstream want to pick up on it. To a certain extent the ability of any story to grow legs has a lot to do with how much people want to hear it.

A few revealing articles in a niche magazine will hang in the air, but may not have a lasting impact if the main papers don't pick up on it.

When a politician is popular, often people just prefer not to hear things they don't want to hear. Look at Haughey and Bertie. Their shenanigans were well know and often reported on at the time, but their popularity let them just brush past it.

Varadkar and FG are at the heights of their popularity at the moment. This stuff could end up being water off a duck's back.

s1ippy

Sorry didn't mean to cut across you to lie about it being public information, in spite of the fact that there are publically available statements from Stephen Donnelly and many others from the time criticising that they hadn't been given the details.

The question of how many times he has done this before is going to be the crucial one in the Dáil tomorrow. Because he doesn't know what else Michael Smith has on him and when he lies, he is going to get caught.

Pearse Doherty on Claire Byrne is currently being grilled about the rent that accidentally went to Sinn Féin.

smurgen

Deleted User wrote: »

Such a close friend that he didn’t know his address?

I don't know my friends postal address. Have to even look up my own Eircode most times.:)

Signore Fancy Pants

blanch152 wrote: »

The claims of criminal behaviour are completely hysterical. Those making those claims haven't a clue about the law.

This wasn't a cabinet document, so there is no issue in relation to the constitutional imperative around cabinet confidentiality. Secondly, the Official Secrets Act allows any Minister to authorise the circulation of any document. As the Taoiseach, it was well within his power to circulate any document, confidential or not. So no breach of the law.

Was it appropriate, well that is what we are to hear tomorrow.

There are protocols regarding the dissemination of security classified documents, regardless if you are authorised to release them.

Without going into detail, there needs to be a legitimate chain of custody. In this case, there is none and in this case, it appears the reciever was not authorised to recieve the document.

If this was all above board, it would not have occurred the way it did and there would be no issues.

There are bigger issues at play here and anyone who see's no issue with the leader of the country, ignoring security protocols and leaking information to preferred individuals, is quote frankly and idiot!

FrancieBrady

Harris needs to decide what side he is on here.


https://mobile.twitter.com/McConnellDaniel/status/1323209033466208256

Dubh Geannain

blanch152 wrote: »

Nope, don't think there is.

He is the Taoiseach, who should he ask for permission? As I said before, he hardly writes memos to himself, should be look in the mirror?

A civil servant has to ask a Minister, but who should the Taoiseach ask?