Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Augme

So Leo will be making a statement later. Resignation? Very difficult to see how he will get through this without resigning or else caused by huge damage to himself and fine gael.

StupidLikeAFox

Looks like Michael is trying to play it down a bit based on this tweet summary (not sure how to embed the link):

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1323224878510710787

I still fail to see what the actual impact of sharing the document was - it didn't really cost anybody anything, didn't impact negotiations, didn't give anybody an advantage (open to correction on this). If he can play it off as a one time mistake where he should have followed a procedure but didn't then he might get away with a mea culpa, a tarnished reputation and a few lost points in an opinion poll. Secretly this is probably what FF and GP want aswell

However if there is a drip feed of things going to come out over the next week as hinted by village magazine then he is goosed. It's unlikely but maybe he will just say **** it tomorrow and resign, Europe calling and all that

ooter

Looking forward to lunch in the next hour or so, share and potato soup, luvly.

Cluedo Monopoly

seamus wrote: »

They don't want to look stupid. They don't want to offer a defence of Varadkar that he himself might contradict in the Dáil.

They probably don't want to look like they're avoiding the topic, but it's foolish of them to agree to talk about it unless they've actually been briefed on it.

Yeah he should have got out ahead of it instead of sending clueless TDs and supporters to defend him.

joemurt

ooter wrote: »

Looking forward to lunch in the next hour or so, share and potato soup, luvly.

A fresh bowl of Leo and Michael soup please. Extra salty.

Get Real

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Looks like Michael is trying to play it down a bit based on this tweet summary (not sure how to embed the link):

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1323224878510710787

I still fail to see what the actual impact of sharing the document was - it didn't really cost anybody anything, didn't impact negotiations, didn't give anybody an advantage (open to correction on this). If he can play it off as a one time mistake where he should have followed a procedure but didn't then he might get away with a mea culpa, a tarnished reputation and a few lost points in an opinion poll. Secretly this is probably what FF and GP want aswell

However if there is a drip feed of things going to come out over the next week as hinted by village magazine then he is goosed. It's unlikely but maybe he will just say **** it tomorrow and resign, Europe calling and all that

I get what you're saying and fair play for being open to opinions on it. I agree that ff and the green party probably want to play it down too, given that it'd risk Sinn Féin getting elected into govt.

I do think it gave O'Tuthail an advantage though, or gave him the possibility of an advantage. Using that document to get other GP's to sign up to the union. Increasing revenue to the union and solidifying his position within it, and making connections.

If it's something you can only get because the Taoiseach is your mate and it can be used to your advantage, it's a big deal IMO.

Let's face it, Leo loves to portray a certain persona on Twitter. He'd have been first to post this deal if it was public and revel in its success.

I think given the current political climate, he'll get away with it. But his reputation is gone for me.

FrancieBrady

seamus wrote: »

They don't want to look stupid. They don't want to offer a defence of Varadkar that he himself might contradict in the Dáil.

They probably don't want to look like they're avoiding the topic, but it's foolish of them to agree to talk about it unless they've actually been briefed on it.

Inappropriate for the MoJ to be getting involved as we could be dealing with criminality.

PokeHerKing

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Looks like Michael is trying to play it down a bit based on this tweet summary (not sure how to embed the link):

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1323224878510710787

I still fail to see what the actual impact of sharing the document was - it didn't really cost anybody anything, didn't impact negotiations, didn't give anybody an advantage (open to correction on this). If he can play it off as a one time mistake where he should have followed a procedure but didn't then he might get away with a mea culpa, a tarnished reputation and a few lost points in an opinion poll. Secretly this is probably what FF and GP want aswell

However if there is a drip feed of things going to come out over the next week as hinted by village magazine then he is goosed. It's unlikely but maybe he will just say **** it tomorrow and resign, Europe calling and all that

It just looks like a fairly run of the mill abuse of power to me. He wanted his mate to get a heads up, just like doing a favour for your mate, puts you in good standing with that mate. Means you can call in a favour of your own in the future.

Standard enough business/social norms provided there's no ethical/law breaking. Otherwise its corruption. To me this looks like corruption, he abused his position and shared data he had only through said position through at the very least muddied channels.

blanch152

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Incorrect, if it is classified as Confidential...it's um Confidential. It's self-explanatory really and you can't argue against it, even trying to is ridiculous. It doesnt matter if you dont agree.



Incorrect, a document which has been security classified, remains security classified until it is either returned to the originator or a destruction certificate is issued to the originator. The only person who can downgrade a security classified document is the originator....it is irrelevent if an update or a new draft of the document has been disseminated while the original is still in circulation, the original document is not downgraded by default.

This document was never security classified.

There are levels of confidentiality. For something that is security classified, there are numbered copies, and chains of custody. The document in this case was never at that level of security or confidentiality.

ohnonotgmail

blanch152 wrote: »

This document was never security classified.

There are levels of confidentiality. For something that is security classified, there are numbered copies, and chains of custody. The document in this case was never at that level of security or confidentiality.

It was still confidential. Leo broke that confidence.

paw patrol

seamus wrote: »

They don't want to look stupid. They don't want to offer a defence of Varadkar that he himself might contradict in the Dáil.

They probably don't want to look like they're avoiding the topic, but it's foolish of them to agree to talk about it unless they've actually been briefed on it.

100% , we still remember the poor Dermot Ahern from FF denying the IMF was in town while the top brass in FF who forced him to face the media with this bull**** out knew differently

Leaky Leo aside, what about the use of language in the tweets.. LEO doesn't give a F**K about direct provision..was he paraphrasing something Leo said?
or is he so close to Leo as to speak indirectly almost for him between friends, on matters of government..

This O toole lads needs speaking to I think..sitting up there on the TV virtue signaling his arse off whilst sharing a Watsap boys club dismissing government issues on big LEO's Behalf.

StupidLikeAFox

When is Leo speaking to the dail?

StupidLikeAFox

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

When is Leo speaking to the dail?

he'll let us know by twitter later today!!:rolleyes:

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

This document was never security classified.

There are levels of confidentiality. For something that is security classified, there are numbered copies, and chains of custody. The document in this case was never at that level of security or confidentiality.

Do you have a link showing the confidentiality level of the document at the time it was shared?

joemurt

https://twitter.com/TodaywithClaire/status/1323230760564854785

"The IMO is the representative body, they negotiated in good faith & got a good deal, so I think it was right and proper the deal was done with the IMO and that's the appropriate way we should have done our business" - @SimonHarrisTD
on #TodayCB now

Harris is the sliest of dogs. The IMO negotiated in good faith. Yes they did. Where as the Government did not negotiate in good faith. They extorted a result by leaking confidential documents. Bad faith, every day, all day.

How can any country or organization looking to negotiate a contract or agreement with a Fine Gael partnered government have confidence with Varadkars behaviour.

The Goverment has zero credibilty going forward. If FF, FG and the Greens are happy to proceed, it tells you everything you need to know.

Its all a laugh and a game to them. They fill their pockets either way before riding off into the private sector rewards gig.

caveat emptor

Yeah there was no quid pro quo so it's grand. It looks like he canvassed for Leo but that was a specifically different thing.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1323244145704607744?s=20

elperello

I see Joe Duffy is taking a run at the story on Liveline in an hour's time.

Should be interesting.

joemurt

People who follow Varadkar on twitter - Was it unusual for Varadkar not to make hay and tweet about the SF repayment story last week (other than the regina retweet)? or is it a rarity he personally attacks SF through twitter?

May indicate how long he new this was coming? Harris pretty quiet too.

dresden8

paw patrol wrote: »

100% , we still remember the poor Dermot Ahern from FF denying the IMF was in town while the top brass in FF who forced him to face the media with this bull**** out knew differently

When Sky news was broadcasting the IMF guys walking down Kildare Street. RTE news didn't spot that though, little Dermo's word was enough for them.

joemurt

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1323244145704607744

''Photographs of the campaign launch show Dr Ó Tuathail at the event wearing a 'Leo' T-shirt while holding a placard with Mr Varadkar's name on it.''

Which would be better meme - the bag of cash emoji - the f+ck refugees comment - I broke the law in a limited and specific way.

I'd go with the refugee comment.

stockshares

joemurt wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TodaywithClaire/status/1323230760564854785

"The IMO is the representative body, they negotiated in good faith & got a good deal, so I think it was right and proper the deal was done with the IMO and that's the appropriate way we should have done our business" - @SimonHarrisTD
on #TodayCB now

Harris is the sliest of dogs. The IMO negotiated in good faith. Yes they did. Where as the Government did not negotiate in good faith. They extorted a result by leaking confidential documents. Bad faith, every day, all day.

How can any country or organization looking to negotiate a contract or agreement with a Fine Gael partnered government have confidence with Varadkars behaviour.

The Goverment has zero credibilty going forward. If FF, FG and the Greens are happy to proceed, it tells you everything you need to know.

Its all a laugh and a game to them. They fill their pockets either way before riding off into the private sector rewards gig.

It might also be that the rest of Gov thought they were negotiating in good faith without knowing that Varadkar was undermining them behind their backs.

I'm saying this assuming that Harris was telling the truth in saying he did not know.

McMurphy

Truthvader wrote: »

Well the gaelacised name should be a clue

A clue to what?

What's the issue of having a "gaelacised name"

Leo certainly has no issue with it.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1323244145704607744?s=19

ooter

https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1323250111682650113?s=19

omega man

Still so many getting hung up on the use of a confidential stamp. You can literally add that to any document or email, however that doesn’t give it any legal status.
I’m not saying this document didn’t have an official level of confidentiality assigned but it’s quite possible it didn’t other than a generic stamp.
I’m no political analyst that’s for sure but I really don’t believe this is a smoking gun and it seems many are caught up in their dislike for LV and FG in general.

Bubbaclaus

Lads, whatever about anything else, can we please stop sharing Mick Caul in here. The information is out there in enough platforms already to not require the sharing of a Gemma O'Doherty supporters Twitter feed.

mickdw

Ten Pin wrote: »

Just heard Michael Martin refer to Leo as "Taoiseach" before quickly correcting himself.....the ultimate fruedian slip

Unbelieveable. Saw it myself.

Sir Oxman

joemurt wrote: »

How can any country or organization looking to negotiate a contract or agreement with a Fine Gael partnered government have confidence with Varadkars behaviour.

This is the crux of it.

gadarnol

Martin seems to be indicating support for Varadkar which is no surprise given the political calculus. The Greens will inevitably fall in line. The govt is discredited further. It really is a question of much punishment can it absorb before Green defections on an individual basis begin.

mickdw

gadarnol wrote: »

Martin seems to be indicating support for Varadkar which is no surprise given the political calculus. The Greens will inevitably fall in line. The govt is discredited further. It really is a question of much punishment can it absorb before Green defections on an individual basis begin.

Yep martin following the 'party' line.
Hearing his comments and his little slip and all we have seen of this government to date, Veradkar is the Taoiseach.