Labour's Corbyn suspended for reaction to anti-semitism report

Eric Cartman

end of the road wrote: »

never going to happen.
as much as i liked tony blair, iraq asside, his brand of labour is finished and not coming back.
corbyn's labour would be perfectly electable if britain was a grown up country with responsible politics and a responsible media focused on reporting facts rather then pushing agendas that go against the people.

dispite all of it's moving forward and there being a number of sensible voices about the place, the political and media establishment, and a vocal minority including extreme nationalists and the alt right, will insure that anyone trying to improve things for the people and end the gravey train for the few will never be in power.

The extreme nationalists / alt right have no power in britain. Labour is going to need more towards tony blair than corbyn if it ever wants to see power again. British people arent willing to destroy the middle class and the professional class to hand more money to those feeding off the welfare system.

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote:

Blairs labour looked after the working class, Corbyns labour wrote off the actual working class in favour of the benefits leeches.

Gimme a break, Blair helped push the neoliberal ideology to it's current train wreck, particularly shafting the working classes

Eric Cartman

RWCNT wrote: »

Yes, there's deflection and whataboutery about the other side, but none of them suggest that the accusations are far right propaganda. I'm sorry, I just don't like when people bullsh*t.

“George Galloway claims Jeremy Corbyn is victim of ‘Goebbelian propaganda“

And he picked Goebbels not to insinuate far right sources at all...

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Gimme a break, Blair helped push the neoliberal ideology to it's current train wreck, particularly shafting the working classes

Give me 2 examples of how blair shafted the actual working class. Nothing about benefits payments please

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Blairs labour looked after the working class, Corbyns labour wrote off the actual working class in favour of the benefits leeches.

Labour was supposed to be a broad church party for most of society, corbyns labour made the middle class enemies , backed minorities over indigenous british people and would have destroyed thousands of jobs

in what way did corbyn's labour write off the actual working class in favour of the small few "benefits leaches" ?

campaigning against racism is not backing minorities at the over indiginous british people as a whole, but rather backing victims of racism over racists which is absolutely correct. for god sake his whole manifesto was about helping indiginous british people as well as anyone else living in the country by planning to get the services they use to work properly.
and how would he have destroyed thousands of jobs exactly? answer, he wouldn't.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Every single one of them is deflecting from corbyns antisemitism and marking it as an invention of the right or only an issue on the right... its exactly my point

well we know they definitely aren't defelecting from corbyn's mythical antisemitism given he has never been antisemetic and all of the evidence throughout his life points to him not being so.
as for it being an invention of the right, the articles never made such a claim, but rather stated the right jumped on the antisemitism that did exist in the party to push their agenda, which is correct.

RWCNT

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“George Galloway claims Jeremy Corbyn is victim of ‘Goebbelian propaganda“

And he picked Goebbels not to insinuate far right sources at all...

Oh come on. He's referring to "the big lie" - absurd reach tothink he's trying to insinuate that nazis are behind it all.

Without any actual examples, I'll assume this never actually happened. Perhaps yourself and that poster are experiencing the Mandela effect

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote:

Give me 2 examples of how blair shafted the actual working class. Nothing about benefits payments please

Its clearly obvious that the traditional left parties, across the western world, have effectively walked away from their bases, this is clearly obvious in both the US and the UK, and particularly obvious in the clinton/Blair era. This was done by a multitude of ways, particularly in relation to the pursuit of so called free trade deals, which effectively just undermined the jobs and working conditions of many.

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Its clearly obvious that the traditional left parties, across the western world, have effectively walked away from their bases, this is clearly obvious in both the US and the UK, and particularly obvious in the clinton/Blair era. This was done by a multitude of ways, particularly in relation to the pursuit of so called free trade deals, which effectively just undermined the jobs and working conditions of many.

The working conditions in britain have constantly been improving, it didnt get worse under blair

bunderoon

Can anyone give actual proof and examples of his alleged antisemitism?

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The working conditions in britain have constantly been improving, it didnt get worse under blair

would you go way outta that sh1t, just like ourselves, uk workers have been experiencing the exact same outcomes, under such ideologies, increasing precariousness of employment, zero hours etc, suppression of wage inflation, de-unionisation of their workforce, and rapid rise in the cost of living, particularly in relation to property and land, rapid rise in private debt, again, directly linked to property and land prices, all effectively due to the financialization of their economies, under their respective leaders, i.e. blair in the uk, and clinton in the us, leading us to the 08 crash, and now brexit and himself!

end of the road

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The extreme nationalists / alt right have no power in britain. Labour is going to need more towards tony blair than corbyn if it ever wants to see power again. British people arent willing to destroy the middle class and the professional class to hand more money to those feeding off the welfare system.

well it seems that this isn't the case given the tory majority.
it looks like many british people are in fact happy to destroy as many classes as they can to hand more money to the small wealthy illetes feeding off the tories special wellfare system.


so yes, they are happy to see individuals get more money from a form of wellfare system, but not those who genuinely need it get it from the actual wellfare system.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Give me 2 examples of how blair shafted the actual working class. Nothing about benefits payments please

you have a ridiculous obsession with a few measly benefits payments.
the world does not revolve around benefits, you need to get over it and except they exist and will continue to do so.

Sonics2k

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He even had a forward in an antiSemitic book,

British labour needs to get back to tony blairs labour, Corbyns labour was toxic and completely unelectable

ahahaha nice try but no Eric, try harder.

Corbyn wrote a forward for a book from 1902 called Imperialism: A Study, which is itself a massively influential book at the subject of many studies in pretty much any socio-political course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism_(Hobson)

While it is certainly true that Hobson himself had some certainly unsavory and questionable views on the Jewish financial families (namely the Rothschilds), the book itself is really more about how Capitalism itself doesn't have to become Imperialism, and that redistribution of wealth was important to the strong maintenance of a society. You may as well claim that Corbyn is also a racist towards Africans as Hobson also had some highly racist views towards black people.

Here's a Guardian article (ugh) that breaks it down. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/may/02/jeremy-corbyn-hobsons-imperialism-and-antisemitism

Here's the actual forward, which includes his criticisms of the book.

http://www.spokesmanbooks.com/Spokesman/PDF/130Corbyn.pdf

fiveleavesleft

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Personally, i'm not convinced the party is on a legally solid footing in taking the action it did.

Will be interesting to watch this. Much is made of how meticulous, forensic & clinical Starmer is. So he must be confident he has everything covered but as you say things look a little off.

Tom Mann Centuria

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Personally, i'm not convinced the party is on a legally solid footing in taking the action it did.

Great rundown from Alex Nunn (who is in no way impartial but states the facts of the suspension very well indeed), this Twitter thread completely reinforces what you've posted.

https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1322886257215709185?s=20

suicide_circus

It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

Tom Mann Centuria

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

I don't think he had any involvement in deciding whether he should be suspended or not. That would be a bit of a breakdown of the process were that the case.

ExMachina1000

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Every single one of them is deflecting from corbyns antisemitism and marking it as an invention of the right or only an issue on the right... its exactly my point

Mine also

MontgomeryClift

bunderoon wrote: »

Can anyone give actual proof and examples of his alleged antisemitism?

...

RWCNT

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

...

Very antisemitic aura off those three dots.

Strumms

suicide_circus wrote: »

It's everyone's fault but Jeremy's.

Jeremy didn’t look, sound, act or appeal to people as a potential prime minister. He didn’t appeal to the electorate or his party colleagues in the end.

It’s been over 10 years since Labour have been in government. It’s been a mess.

Miliband had all the appeal of a castrated duck.

Corbyn despite up against a reasonably uninspiring Theresa May, couldn’t make an impact, didn’t have appeal at any level. A decent leader could have wiped the floor with her.

10 years of rather bland, uninspiring leadership and leadership choices. Starmer will need to up his and Labour’s game.

joseywhales

When did 'not being liked' get you suspended from your job?

Maybe that's a naive question. Shall we investigate all party members of all parties for immorality and suspend all party leaders who do not investigate and expell all those who stand accussed?

I don't care about Corbyn or british politics in general, apart from entertainment but this whole Corbyn is anti-semitic thing seems like complete BS. How long have we been hearing about it but I've yet to see evidence.

Dyr

I have to admit, I underestimated the power of the Israeli lobby, to be able to have Corbyn and his pals repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot and then in the head was quite an achievement

Labour not being able to keep a lid on the ansemitism of its far left loons and Muslim members was due to a Zionist consipriacy. Theres a nice circular logic to that.

fiveleavesleft

See Angela Rayner (Deputy Leader) has said what Corbyn said was the truth. She herself is accused of being an anti-semite for quoting Norman Finkelstein. Will Starmer move against her?

bunderoon

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

...

Seriously. Anyone?
Or is it the case he doesnt support somd of their policies and if you do that, you're labelled an antisemitie.

If a Jewish person calls him one (knowing hes not) does that make that person guilty of Anti-gentilism?
If not, why not.

Strumms

I don’t like or agree with many of the Israeli polices in the Middle East. I don’t think this makes me anti Semitic, a hater of Jewish people, Israelis... if an Israeli person was critical of Irish political views, foreign policy, whatever... it’s a democracy, doesn’t make them anti Irish. No more then it makes anybody else anti Semitic in the same context...

Anti Semitic: varying definitions but in and around...

The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews.

Hangdogroad

When Tracey Ullman did a sketch taking the piss out of him even that was labelled a Zionist conspiracy by ironically, another standup comedian, cant be bothered looking him up but dont think he was someone most people would have heard up.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t like or agree with many of the Israeli polices in the Middle East. I don’t think this makes me anti Semitic, a hater of Jewish people, Israelis... if an Israeli person was critical of Irish political views, foreign policy, whatever... it’s a democracy, doesn’t make them anti Irish. No more then it makes anybody else anti Semitic in the same context...

Anti Semitic: varying definitions but in and around...

The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. It may also include prejudiced or stereotyped views about Jews.

They have pushed for any criticism of Israel to be branded as anti semitic.

It's crazy considering Israel was discovered Interfering with British democracy and yet the UK media barely gave that any coverage compared to alleged anti semitism in the Labor party

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/investigations/2017/1/10/the-lobby-young-friends-of-israel-part-1/

Well worth watching, they did a similar documentary in the US but Israel managed to have that blocked from airing, it got leaked and is available here:

https://electronicintifada.net/content/watch-film-israel-lobby-didnt-want-you-see/25876

Tom Mann Centuria

Peter Oborne's take on the report.

https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1322463086180212736?s=20

And he certainly isn't a natural ally of Corbyn.

fiveleavesleft

He's back.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/labour-reinstates-corbyn-after-suspension-over-anti-semitism-report-1.4411940

diaper dude

Intelligent, kind, charismatic (in his way) and fair minded, but he messed up on Brexit. Was trying to appeal to both sides but should have been transparent from the start instead of leaving people guessing.The antisemitism thing was entirely concocted. The Guardian ran a constant two year smear campaign on him, no let up at all.