V&V Forum Feedback Thread

Dizzyblonde

jh79 wrote: »

Should posts that promote quack cures based on vegan diets be allowed in any forum bar the Conspiracy Theory forum ?

I personally believe it is reckless to allow this type of posting. Take the current thread on beans, the presenter claims those that take Aromatase Inhibitors for Breast Cancer can replace them with mushroom extract.

According to the Boards site rules:

If you want to tell someone about the amazing results YOU have had with a certain medical treatment, then go ahead. What you can’t do is tell them that THEY should have that treatment.

So someone can say that they believe something helped them, but not suggest that it will help anyone else. Debates on such matters will be directed to forums better suited to them.

NcdJd

NcdJd wrote: »

I think i can see where the feed back is going from your post. Whatever ye decide I hope that this place is moderated in a balanced way and that threads put up by certain posters in here to just have a go at farmers are closed / looked at carefully.

This is a big part of the problem.

I don’t think threads are started to ‘have a go at farmers’. That’s just how they make you feel.

I also don’t think you can tell people to close threads just because you don’t like their point of view.

ganmo

I for one only pop my head in here every other month to see what's going on. I select which new threads to read based on their titles. Titles like the current hot thread or cognitive dissonance would be the ones I'd read.

As you can see most threads talking about recipes or products tend to have less than 10 posts.

Dizzyblonde

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It must be in the video someone posted? Why are you even watching or reading that thread about beans, in the veg/vegan forum? See this is another thing, farmers come in and scrutinise everything looking for flaws and holes to pick at, even in people's diets. Wtf is that all about? Why do farmers care what vegans eat?
Are farmers also in the cooking/recipes forum pointing out that certain foods are overly processed and unhealthy? It's ridiculous.

I moderate the Food forum and we don't allow anyone to criticise the calories or nutritional content of our recipes and meals. The same approach will be taken in the V&V forum with criticism of food choices, lifestyle etc.

Thelonious Monk

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

I moderate the Food forum and we don't allow anyone to criticise the calories or nutritional content of our recipes and meals. The same approach will be taken in the V&V forum with criticism of food choices, lifestyle etc.

As Unearthly pointed out earlier in this post, it currently isn't being moderated that way.

Neyite

NcdJd wrote: »

I think i can see where the feed back is going from your post. Whatever ye decide I hope that this place is moderated in a balanced way and that threads put up by certain posters in here to just have a go at farmers are closed / looked at carefully.

It will be. Behind the scenes we are looking at mods to come on board. The forum changes will be based on feedback from the users of the forum and overall boards guidelines.

ganmo wrote: »

I have agreed with posters saying that all agriculture has a degree of cruelty about it but being called evil etc is a step too far.

it seems to me that there's mud-slinging on both sides. the words 'cult' or slinging terms like child abuse around seems to me to be a step too far also.

But consisten and clear modding once the forum rules are established should sort that out - on both sides.

jh79 wrote: »

Should posts that promote quack cures based on vegan diets be allowed in any forum bar the Conspiracy Theory forum ?

I personally believe it is reckless to allow this type of posting. Take the current thread on beans, the presenter claims those that take Aromatase Inhibitors for Breast Cancer can replace them with mushroom extract.

Agreed - that's a boards site-wide rule, so one you don't need specifically here and isn't even one you could allow if you wanted to. Any medical advice is not allowed and worthy of a mod sanction. It doesn't even have a place in Conspriacy Theories, because it still falls under medical advice. The only forum that I can see it may fit would be health sciences but they require peer-reviewed scientific studies to back up a theory or discussion or it gets quickly shut down.

NcdJd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is a big part of the problem.

I don’t think threads are started to ‘have a go at farmers’. That’s just how they make you feel.

I also don’t think you can tell people to close threads just because you don’t like their point of view.

I think everyone can agree that this forum needs more active daily moderation not someone popping their head in once in a blue moon. Threads descending into train wrecks of personal attacks, mud slinging and false information does nothing for anyone other than put everyone in bad form.

As I said previously like every forum on here, moderation needs to be done in a fair and balanced way.

Lady Haywire

NcdJd wrote: »

false information.

This is my main gripe with posts in V&V. Videos which are highly edited & portrayed as common occurrences on every farm when it's anything but.
And if someone says something completely false & ludacris I'm going to call it out as such.

NcdJd

Lady Haywire wrote: »

This is my main gripe with posts in V&V. Videos which are highly edited & portrayed as common occurrences on every farm when it's anything but.
And if someone says something completely false & ludacris I'm going to call it out as such.

Totally agree with that.

auspicious

jh79 wrote: »

Should posts that promote quack cures based on vegan diets be allowed in any forum bar the Conspiracy Theory forum ?

I personally believe it is reckless to allow this type of posting. Take the current thread on beans, the presenter claims those that take Aromatase Inhibitors for Breast Cancer can replace them with mushroom extract.

There's an unmissable disclaimer at the start of the presentation.

jh79

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It must be in the video someone posted? Why are you even watching or reading that thread about beans, in the veg/vegan forum? See this is another thing, farmers come in and scrutinise everything looking for flaws and holes to pick at, even in people's diets. Wtf is that all about? Why do farmers care what vegans eat?
Are farmers also in the cooking/recipes forum pointing out that certain foods are overly processed and unhealthy? It's ridiculous.

Not farmer but am a Scientist. I don't care if you eat beans or mushrooms but do care if a youtube video claims eating them cures cancer. It's false information that has the potential to be dangerous.

jh79

Neyite wrote: »

Agreed - that's a boards site-wide rule, so one you don't need specifically here and isn't even one you could allow if you wanted to. Any medical advice is not allowed and worthy of a mod sanction. It doesn't even have a place in Conspriacy Theories, because it still falls under medical advice. The only forum that I can see it may fit would be health sciences but they require peer-reviewed scientific studies to back up a theory or discussion or it gets quickly shut down.

Cancer cures used to be a regular feature of the CT forum, that's why i suggested it.

Should i just report the video ?

Neyite

Yes, report it and one of the acting mods will take a look.

auspicious

jh79 wrote: »

Cancer cures used to be a regular feature of the CT forum, that's why i suggested it.

Should i just report the video ?

The disclaimer accounts for the content.

jh79

auspicious wrote: »

The disclaimer accounts for the content.

Up to the mods now but does it not bother you that an actual doctor has to put a disclaimer on his presentation!

Works for Dr Oz i believe. Beware of industry propaganda!

auspicious

jh79 wrote: »

Up to the mods now but does it not bother you that an actual doctor has to put a disclaimer on his presentation!

Works for Dr Oz i believe. Beware of industry propaganda!

Because medicine and the body is very complicated and we have still much to learn. Do they put disclaimers on vaccines I wonder? Would 'possible side effects' be a disclaimer?

Dizzyblonde

I've watched the video, and while it does contain a lot of useful information it also contains a claim that beans can cure early onset cancer. Even with the disclaimer in place I don't believe that the video is appropriate for Boards, where medical advice is forbidden, so I've removed it.

gozunda

I had stopped posting here due to the level of overt personal abuse being used by a small number of posters.

I am however take this opportunity to highlight a number of evidently highly dubious claims which have been made in this thread and some correct ones - as I believe they should be highlighted.

It has been suggested that posters should "feel free to not post here if you can't respect these views in a reasonable way"

And I agree with that. However in comments which have involved genuine discussion - there have been multiple incidents where other posters have faced frankly disgusting personal abuse and name calling.

That needs to be addressed urgently.

It has been claimed that "every single thread gets derailed within a few hours". This is a baseless claim.

A quick check of the forum home page shows just one or two "agriculture" related threads where the absolute majority of comments are being posted.

Currently there are just two such open agriculture related threads

Again such false flag waving is disingenuous and needs to highlighted

It has been suggested that "we all know the ‘innocent’ questions that are really baiting"

That is frankly complete and utter horlix. A discussion involves more than one comment and often involve genuine questions unless that suggestion is trying to simply shut any discussion down.

Another comment referred to posters here being called "vegan terrorists".

To-date no one has ever called anyone in this forum a "vegan terrorist" I know I have just checked.

That is yet simply yet another false claim and does not stand up to any scrutiny.

Another comment detailed that other posters should "Stop having a go at posters trying to have a constructive discussion."

And yes I'd fully agree with that - however I considering the level of abuse directed at some other posters in this forum - this should have been addressed at the very beginning in this discussion.

Food issues seem to have been mentioned frequently. However comments such as that "There is a trend that vegetarians and vegans need to be told what foods are healthy and what aren't as if we think a vegan burger is healthy"

In the active threads I've looked at generally its a fairly normal discussion with ingredients or new products being discussed. Id imagine where junk type foods are being discussed - no one is going to call junk foods healthy whether they are vegan or otherwise

I've also seen a number of comments which oddly state that posters asking where do they get (their) protein" is a common problem.

This is came up previously in previous discussion and no - its not in anyway a question which is thrown by posters as a "thrope".

Again such false flag waving is little more than disingenuous

There seems to many references to posters attacking those posting recipes etc

This again is little more than an apparent false flag . A quick check of the main recipe thread shows no such comments over the last year including the current active "bean" thread . In my experience recipes do not tend not to be discussed in the agriculture related threads

For those threads which denigrate farming or farmers in general - it is of little doubt that any discussion will be robust. That does not mean those contributing are "having a go"

Its a discussion at the end of the day and if posters can't or don't want to have a reasonable discussion then we may as well close boards down.

It remains that no matter what is being discussed - everyone is free to gloss over it, report it or discuss it in a reasonable manner.

Unfortunately reasonable discussion with some evident exceptions has not been my experience in this form and I know that others have experienced similar issues.

And that pehaps the single most important issue to be addressed imo

Edit. Basic comprehension ...

Unearthly

So in a topic about Beyond Meat burgers (available on 1st page), this was posted by Gozunda

I always presumed that the point of a whole food plant based diet is that it would be low in highly processed ingredients and additives. Tbh I really can't see the attraction of a food product which is so chemically 'enhanced' as to be unsuitable for those choosing a better / healthier diet and lifestyle (whether vegan or otherwise)

So he is

1) Lying
2) No one claimed Beyond Meat is part of a wholefoods diet.

I'd also call attention to his words "junk food" - This is something he only uses for vegan meats but doesn't do the same for the animal equivalent

gozunda

Unearthly wrote: »

So in a topic about Beyond Meat burgers (available on 1st page), this was posted by Gozund

So he is 1) Lying
2) No one claimed Beyond Meat is part of a wholefoods diet.
I'd also call attention to his words "junk food" - This is something he only uses for vegan meats but doesn't do the same for the animal equivalent

Unearthly - your response is litle more than disingenuous again and the continuous personal tirades are little more than laughable tbf

You dug up a 2 year old thread .....

The present claim discussed was


"There is a trend that vegetarians and vegans need to be told what foods are healthy and what aren't as if we think a vegan burger is healthy"
In the active threads I've looked at no one is telling them what foods are healthy."


This
is why your post is utterly disingenuous. Its a discussion.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109168347&postcount=44

And yes there are many different types of junk food as detailed (whether vegan or otherwise)



Which bit is difficult to understand?

Unearthly

So basically your point is

No one tells people what food are healthy.....except the topics where we talk about products like vegan burgers.

So my original point you are in agreement with

Dizzyblonde

Mod note:
This is the Feedback thread, not the Air Your Gripes thread. Off-topic bickering is counter productive, please stop.

gozunda

Unearthly wrote: »

So basically your point isNo one tells people what food are healthy.....except the topics where we talk about products like vegan burgers.
So my original point you are in agreement with

Nope. Unless that is you are ignoring what was said

]... Generally its a fairly normal discussion with ingredients or new products being discussed. The only exception to this which I've seen is where junk type foods are being discussed and no one is going to call junk foods healthy imo

You wish to continue any personal issue with me we can move it to pm. Thanks.

Dizzyblonde

Mod note:
gozunda, if you have something you'd like to discuss feel free to start a thread about it. If you continue to derail this one you're going to receive an infraction!

Thelonious Monk

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Mod note:
gozunda, if you have something you'd like to discuss feel free to start a thread about it. If you continue to derail this one you're going to receive an infraction!

Are you starting to see why threads are nearly impossible with certain posters involved? The amount of bad blood and animosity they've built up on this site over the years is staggering.

Faith

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Mod note:
This is the Feedback thread, not the Air Your Gripes thread. Off-topic bickering is counter productive, please stop.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Are you starting to see why threads are nearly impossible with certain posters involved? The amount of bad blood and animosity they've built up on this site over the years is staggering.

Mod note: I’d draw your attention back to Dizzyblonde’s previous mod warning. We will start handing out thread bans if people persist in attacking each other rather than contributing constructively to the discussion.

To be clear, we don’t need any more feedback pertaining to “such and such doesn’t post the way I think they should”. I don’t care whether you’re a farmer, a veg*n or an observer. We get the picture and it’s enough now.

Lady Haywire

Lady Haywire wrote: »

This is my main gripe with posts in V&V. Videos which are highly edited & portrayed as common occurrences on every farm when it's anything but.
And if someone says something completely false & ludacris I'm going to call it out as such.

This is a good example of why farmers and vegans don’t mix well.

This is a good example of why the forum would be better off if left to V&V’s as per the OP question.

First off it doesn’t matter, to me, if this is a daily occurrence or not. It’s happens. That’s enough for me.

The general defence of such videos are either ‘that’s not what really happens’ or ‘that’s not happening in Ireland’.

My take - it does happen. It’s there. On video. Unless they’re all acting ?

And I don’t care where it happens. My choices are not governed by borders. And it actually does happen it Ireland. Not that it matters. But it does as evidenced by many a video.

And finally, if video footage exists to show the cruelty involved in farming my first thoughts are - my god, how many times does this actually happen. It’s not like farming is heavily recorded. If it was recorded and available 24/7 then we would see a lot more abuse and horrible conditions.

If only more ‘vegan extremists’ could record more video footage it would put paid to any defence of the farming process being ‘normal’.

It’s not normal. It’s abhorrent to some people.

White Clover

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is a good example of why farmers and vegans don’t mix well.

This is a good example of why the forum would be better off if left to V&V’s as per the OP question.

First off it doesn’t matter, to me, if this is a daily occurrence or not. It’s happens. That’s enough for me.

The general defence of such videos are either ‘that’s not what really happens’ or ‘that’s not happening in Ireland’.

My take - it does happen. It’s there. On video. Unless they’re all acting ?

And I don’t care where it happens. My choices are not governed by borders. And it actually does happen it Ireland. Not that it matters. But it does as evidenced by many a video.

And finally, if video footage exists to show the cruelty involved in farming my first thoughts are - my god, how many times does this actually happen. It’s not like farming is heavily recorded. If it was recorded and available 24/7 then we would see a lot more abuse and horrible conditions.

If only more ‘vegan extremists’ could record more video footage it would put paid to any defence of the farming process being ‘normal’.

It’s not normal. It’s abhorrent to some people.

This post of yours is just opinion. Opinion is not the same as fact. Surely you can see the difference?
Vegans start inflamatory threads that are opinions, not facts. The fact that it's a public forum, farmers will call you out on any lies and untruths, for the reason that some impressionable people may fall into the trap of believing the Vegan propaganda.
If you want an echo chamber, it'll have to be a private forum, but as long as untruths are told on a public forum, expect to be challenged on every one of them.

Lady Haywire

Klopp the last video you posted was about 7 minutes long & was videoed over 18 months. Surely if abuse was happening all the time they'd have been in & out of the farms within days.

White Clover

White Clover wrote: »

This post of yours is just opinion. Opinion is not the same as fact. Surely you can see the difference?
Vegans start inflamatory threads that are opinions, not facts. The fact that it's a public forum, farmers will call you out on any lies and untruths, for the reason that some impressionable people may fall into the trap of believing the Vegan propaganda.
If you want an echo chamber, it'll have to be a private forum, but as long as untruths are told on a public forum, expect to be challenged on every one of them.

Oh but it is fact.

Breeding animals in to a life of imprisonment, torture and then slaughter is how I see it.

You see it differently. That’s fine by me.

But it is what it is - to me.

It’s abhorrent and cruel and unnecessary.

Don’t tell me how to think or how to feel.