Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

mloc123

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I genuinely don’t understand why they are allowed play . 15 sweaty hands touching the same ball and then going home to their families spreading it about

Never mind their families... into work the next day, sitting in an office, school etc... At least with professional sports this doesn't happen.

Rob A. Bank

Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine

He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !

One example showing clearly that government officials had been thinking about herd immunity from early on is a March 15 email sent from a retired doctor to Tegnell, the epidemiologist and architect of the Swedish plan, which he forwarded to his Finnish counterpart, Mika Salminen.

In it, the retired doctor recommended allowing healthy people to be infected in controlled settings as a way to fight the epidemic. “One point would be to keep schools open to reach herd immunity faster,” Tegnell noted at the top of the forwarded email.

Salminen responded that the Finnish Health Agency had considered this but decided against it, because “over time, the children are still going to spread the infection to other age groups.” Furthermore, the Finnish model showed that closing schools would reduce “the attack rate of the disease on the elderly” by 10%. Tegnell responded: “10 percent might be worth it?”

An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !

One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.

eagle eye

Rob A. Bank wrote:

An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !

He should be jailed imo.

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote: »

He should be jailed imo.

Jailed for what?

Widdensushi

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine

He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !



An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !

One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.

Where is the bit that says 10% mortality?

Rob A. Bank

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine

He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !



An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !

One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.

Not saying I agree with Tegnall, but the view may have been, 10% in the short term to save 20% in the long term. With a vaccine imminent it looks like an abysmal decision, but if he did not expect a vaccine within 18 to 24 months its a different picture.

Wolf359f

eagle eye wrote: »

Sweden, who many claimed had the right approach to dealing with the virus, have 10,177 new cases and 31 deaths since Friday.

And to think people in the Sweden thread, a week or so ago, when cases were low, were claiming it was due to community immunity. Not realising Sweden are just weeks behind the rest of Europe.
So cases are high, but daily deaths are the lowest in Europe, is the new thinking trend. Maybe they don't know deaths lag cases.

eagle eye

Plumbthedepths wrote:

Jailed for what?

Deciding to put people's lives at risk.

wes

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine

He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !



An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !

One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.

IMO, this amounts to crimes against humanity. These people need to be tried at the Hague.

Mullaghteelin

Elderly Swedes aren't important to the Great Swedish Multicultural Utopia that is planned.

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote: »

Deciding to put people's lives at risk.

You think he did it for kicks and giggles or prehaps he was basing his opinion on a greater good.

Plumbthedepths

wes wrote: »

IMO, this amounts to crimes against humanity. These people need to be tried at the Hague.

Would you ever cop on to yourself.

Hector Savage

0 cases in Victoria Australia,

Yet the SS thug police pepper spraying protestors ...

https://youtu.be/Ozu50sYZr7s


Disgraceful

Rob A. Bank

Widdensushi wrote: »

Where is the bit that says 10% mortality?

Here

Furthermore, the Finnish model showed that closing schools would reduce “the attack rate of the disease on the elderly” by 10%.

Tegnell responded: “10 percent might be worth it?”

I wonder what our models show about keeping schools open and it's projected mortality of the elderly ?

holdyerhorses

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Some very worrying insights into the thinking of Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response and Right Wing 'herd immunity' posterboy, from 'freedom of information' disclosures of his e-mails earlier in the year. Time Magazine

He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !



An unbelievable, unethical, irresponsible and morally unacceptable stance from that Swedish public health (so called) doctor !

One hopes that thinking like this is not behind the 'keep the schools open at all costs' political tactic here.

Well, < 24 yrs have accounted for 36% of our cases over the last 14 days, 6% of hospitalisations, and 0 deaths or ICU admittance. With it seemingly possible to achieve long-lasting immunity from infection (see other vaccine thread), then a 10% increase in mortality is minuscule and certainly within the right of a public health doctor to advocate for given their responsibly for the width/breadth of that domain.

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Here



I wonder what our models show about keeping schools open and it's projected mortality of the elderly ?

The email was from March 15th, how was the hunt for a vaccine looking then? 20/20 hindsight is wonderful.

eagle eye

holdyerhorses wrote:

Well, < 24 yrs have accounted for 36% of our cases over the last 14 days, 6% of hospitalisations, and 0 deaths or ICU admittance. With it seemingly possible to achieve long-lasting immunity from infection (see other vaccine thread), then a 10% increase in mortality is minuscule and certainly within the right of a public health doctor to advocate for given their responsibly for the width/breadth of that domain.

There is no guarantee of long term immunity. Even antibodies don't last very long in some people.

mr zulu

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no guarantee of long term immunity. Even antibodies don't last very long in some people.

Thanks for clearing that up, once and for all.

normanoffside

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no guarantee of long term immunity. Even antibodies don't last very long in some people.

Let's scrap the vaccine so and just get on with it.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no guarantee of long term immunity. Even antibodies don't last very long in some people.

What are you basing this on?

ACitizenErased

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no guarantee of long term immunity. Even antibodies don't last very long in some people.

Scientists are leaning towards long term immunity.
No antibodies means literally nothing.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/10/studies-show-long-term-covid-19-immune-response

Widdensushi

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Here



I wonder what our models show about keeping schools open and it's projected mortality of the elderly ?

10% infection is how I read that, where do you see 10% mortality?

Non solum non ambulabit

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

He wanted to keep schools open "to reach herd immunity faster" and accepted that the projected 10% increased mortality of the elderly caused by keeping the schools open "might be worth it" !

Why did you change the quote from attack rate to mortality?

ceadaoin.

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no guarantee of long term immunity. Even antibodies don't last very long in some people.

Thats normal. Its not like there are antibodies for every virus you ever had in your blood at all times. That's not how it works. Whats important is that your body remembers how to produce the antibodies for previously encountered threats if needed and there is no indication that this isn't the case for covid.

Rob A. Bank

normanoffside wrote: »

Let's scrap the vaccine so and just get on with it.

Well even Anders Tegnell seems to have 'evolved' his thinking and his keep the schools open to increase infections notion.

Anders Tegnell, the public face of Sweden’s official coronavirus response, said that it would be futile and immoral for a state to deliberately pursue herd immunity, where a large enough number of the population has been infected that the disease struggles to spread.

“There has up to now been no infectious disease whose transmission was fully halted by herd immunity without a vaccine,” Dr Tegnell told Die Zeit, a German newspaper./

It's a great pity the right wing supporters of 'herd immunity by infection' brigade are not able to have the same 'road to Damascus' conversion as Dr Tegnell !

Perhaps his change of mind is due to the shocking increase in daily cases in Sweden recently, caused by his peculiar ideas.

niallo27

eagle eye wrote: »

Deciding to put people's lives at risk.

By keeping schools open.

Widdensushi

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Why did you change the quote from attack rate to mortality?

The article clearly says attack rate, the original post says attack rate but now the quote is mortality which is misrepresentation of the article, I am not sure what exactly 'attack rate means, I would think infection but it might be lost in translation and mean mortality at a stretch.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Scientists are leaning towards long term immunity.
No antibodies means literally nothing.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/10/studies-show-long-term-covid-19-immune-response

Antibodies are only one aspect of your immune system. There's a lot more to it than that. I really don't understand why this is still an issue.

holdyerhorses

Hardyn wrote: »

Antibodies are only one aspect of your immune system. There's a lot more to it than that. I really don't understand why this is still an issue.

Ignorance of the science.

wadacrack

https://twitter.com/roinnslainte/status/1323683648948867073