Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

bb1234567

Widdensushi wrote: »

Where are you getting that figure
?

Worldometers says 409,000 active cases in Belgium at the mo

Out of total 447,000 confirmed cases in the country

mandrake04

speckle wrote: »

Wow impressive cv there. thanks for reply. Yes been searching to find answers, have had a brillant conversations with a couple immunologists over the years, was waiting for more scientific knowledge to appear always... seem to be non responders... have had everything you can thing of... some more than once.. second /third time etc always milder. Now decades upon decades later still immune/antibodys tests etc via medical testing. Always thought there might be something ancestral interestingly enough also. So fans of genealogy and always wondered if it might be able help others in any way. Have mentioned here before also have innate TB immunity. And potentialy a previous vespertillo induced disease.

I know more about testing than vaccines and immunity, I have a M.E in Biomedical engineering but I know a lot about testing for serum properties, antibodies, hormones and viruses.

I used to pull the instruments apart and put them back together for shits and giggles....well not just for shits and giggles I got what most people would describe as really good coin. Most of my colleagues have PhDs in particular fields. Even they don’t know everything about everything lol.

Widdensushi

bb1234567 wrote: »

Worldometers says 409,000 active cases in Belgium at the mo

Out of total 447,000 confirmed cases in the country

Common sense says that is not relevant 7 months after the virus started, obviously the recovered don't notify in any country

speckle

Widdensushi wrote: »

What was your landing zone? Or is this a contribution?

landing zone... just some posts seemed in wrong threads tonight... like gaa here blanks in orther threads ..maybe election is overloading the site? took a break seems ok now now.. we will see...thanks

speckle

mandrake04 wrote: »

I know more about testing than vaccines and immunity, I have a M.E in Biomedical engineering but I know a lot about testing for serum properties, antibodies, hormones and viruses.

I used to pull the instruments apart and put them back together for shits and giggles....well not just for shits and giggles I got what most people would describe as really good coin. Most of my colleagues have PhDs in particular fields. Even they don’t know everything about everything lol.

Haha, I used to do that as a kid with tvs and radios etc. when parents were not looking!
Went on to do hons physics, chemistry and biology LC, loved science, then joined a band and that was the end of that. But did do a short course in forensic science with J.H/ state pathologist, that was definetly interesting. was hoping to take a year off to do a masters this year in music/ then take up a deferred doctorate in medical anthroplogy.

So a little about everything and alot about nothing.! But learning loads of interesting new things this year like a lot of people are, both here on boards and about myself. Find your posts very informative and you are very generous in sharing your knowlege.

Have a friend or two that fly around the world doing a modern version of your tinkering installing/programming ct/mri's etc. Lovely job satisfaction, hard work, travel and good pay.

Well I am always amazed these days at the so many different types of careers there are and new ones all the times. It is becoming niche specialization in the workplace but maybe we are lacking people then who can see the overall picture and who are not afraid to say they dont understand something and to ask questions of those who do and assimilate all that information together to see what needs to be done in the present and plan forwards.

Oh just saw you mentioned serum... had a bit of a nasty run in when tiny with a particular serum... but thats a story for another time

mandrake04

speckle wrote: »

Have a friend or two that fly around the world doing a modern version of your tinkering installing/programming ct/mri's etc. Lovely job satisfaction, hard work, travel and good pay.

That’s what I do lol, I’m a Technical Specialist in APAC (Asia/Pacific) Japan, China, SE Asia and Pacific Islands but mainly Australia these days.

speckle wrote: »

Oh just saw you mentioned serum... had a bit of a nasty run in when tiny with a particular serum... but thats a story for another time

I used to work in Serum work Area analysers mostly ClinChem which is the cornerstone of any hospital laboratory, testing for bodily functions and immunoassay. I also worked in Molecular and NAP which is all part of microbiology.

spookwoman

speckle wrote: »

Haha, I used to do that as a kid with tvs and radios etc. when parents were not looking!
Went on to do hons physics, chemistry and biology LC, loved science, then joined a band and that was the end of that. But did do a short course in forensic science with J.H/ state pathologist, that was definetly interesting. was hoping to take a year off to do a masters this year in music/ then take up a deferred doctorate in medical anthroplogy.

So a little about everything and alot about nothing.! But learning loads of interesting new things this year like a lot of people are, both here on boards and about myself. Find your posts very informative and you are very generous in sharing your knowlege.

Have a friend or two that fly around the world doing a modern version of your tinkering installing/programming ct/mri's etc. Lovely job satisfaction, hard work, travel and good pay.

Well I am always amazed these days at the so many different types of careers there are and new ones all the times. It is becoming niche specialization in the workplace but maybe we are lacking people then who can see the overall picture and who are not afraid to say they dont understand something and to ask questions of those who do and assimilate all that information together to see what needs to be done in the present and plan forwards.

Oh just saw you mentioned serum... had a bit of a nasty run in when tiny with a particular serum... but thats a story for another time

I think people with that type of mindset, wiring of the brain, who have background in tech, engineering seem to have a better ability to see the bigger picture.

Polar101

Widdensushi wrote: »

Common sense says that is not relevant 7 months after the virus started, obviously the recovered don't notify in any country

Yeah. But they had 124k cases until a month ago (Oct 3rd), and now they're up to 447k - so 323k confirmed cases in a month. So a big chunk of the total cases are still 'active'.

Starting to look like they've peaked, though.

Vicxas

Thinking out loud here but seeing as there's numerous people now saying that the vaccine will be ready by December do we think the government will just stick us at level 2 until its rolled out to the vulnerable.

Derek Zoolander

caveat emptor wrote: »

Accounts out of Germany and Belgium worrying.

Issues with staffing levels due to burnout.
Younger patients in ICU.
surpassing previous wave

https://www.aerzteblatt.de/nachrichten/117975/Mehr-junge-COVID-19-Patienten-auf-den-Intensivstationen-als-im-Fruehjahr

Belgium in a bad way but that report about treating 30 year olds instead of 50 year olds is a Dutch doctor relaying second hand info - hardly a reputable source...

The German source is at least a direct source

mandrake04

Belgium got sucked into the whole False positive and 'Casdemic' narrative, they stopped community testing and ditched masks and 14 day isolation down to 7.

This was a bad move getting sucked in like fools they are.


https://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/could-we-be-witnessing-casedemic-number-2-202009241245

caveat emptor

EU's common approach to cover-19 travel measures sounds like a step in right direction. Given the current situation in Europe we have a lot of time to adopt these measures in a practical way. Freedom of movement is really important but not so important if nobody wants to go anywhere.

Seems like a handy plan to align the measures taken by individual states regarding testing and quarantine. Of course some did this before a retrospective infographic was published as is their right.

Member states should in principle not refuse entry to persons travelling from other member states. Those member states that consider it necessary to introduce restrictions could require persons travelling from non-green areas to:

undergo quarantine
undergo a test after arrival
Member states may offer the option of replacing this test with a test carried out before arrival.

Member states could also require persons entering their territory to submit passenger locator forms. A common European passenger locator form should be developed for possible common use.

more info:
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/10/13/covid-19-council-adopts-a-recommendation-to-coordinate-measures-affecting-free-movement/

wadacrack

mandrake04 wrote: »

Belgium got sucked into the whole False positive and 'Casdemic' narrative, they stopped community testing and ditched masks and 14 day isolation down to 7.

This was a bad move getting sucked in like fools they are.


https://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/could-we-be-witnessing-casedemic-number-2-202009241245

The "cranks" eg Sikora, Gupta etc have been complaining about being attacked for having an opinion but their bizarre bias that the pandemic was over was very dangerous and people being very angry with them understandable. Its embarrassing that RTE had Gupta on Primetime sharing her illogical idea's. She claimed at one stage that the IFR was 0.1% in Britain but changed her mind when it would mean that everyone in the UK would have had to have been infected. People claiming that this virus wouldnt spike again etc should just admit they got it very badly wrong and apologize . Its clearly a serious virus. Im sure countries in Europe are looking at the situation here with some envy, especially if a vaccine and better testing is soon available.

Jim_Hodge

Widdensushi wrote: »

They are doing better than, Italy, Spain, Belgium, UK etc, unfortunately there are alot of countries not doing well, there seems to be an obsession with making out they are the worst.

Correct, for Belgium, Spain, UK and Italy but you said most similarly sized countries . They are certainly not better than most and not better than most similarly sized.
They have the sixth highest death rate in Europe. They're not the worst but by no means anything to aspire to either.

Widdensushi

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Correct, for Belgium, Spain, UK and Italy but you said most similarly sized countries . They are certainly not better than most and not better than most similarly sized.
They have the sixth highest death rate in Europe. They're not the worst but by no means anything to aspire to either.

I said they are doing far worse than many but sure just pick the bits you want and change it, same as most articles etc that are quoted on here

Jim_Hodge

Widdensushi wrote: »

I said they are doing far worse than many but sure just pick the bits you want and change it, same as most articles etc that are quoted on here

It was quite clear

they are doing far better than many similar size countries

I'm not getting into pedantics but that is simply not true.

MelbourneMan

Vicxas wrote: »

Thinking out loud here but seeing as there's numerous people now saying that the vaccine will be ready by December do we think the government will just stick us at level 2 until its rolled out to the vulnerable.

Hello.

No, it will be a modified version of Level 3.

We hope, apart from possibly minor short-term local tweaks of increased restrictions, that this formula will maintain a medium to long term steady state of virus suppression, until we have a secure and validated step change in our armoury against the virus, such as a vaccine.

caveat emptor

wadacrack wrote: »

The "cranks" eg Sikora, Gupta etc have been complaining about being attacked for having an opinion but their bizarre bias that the pandemic was over was very dangerous and people being very angry with them understandable. Its embarrassing that RTE had Gupta on Primetime sharing her illogical idea's. She claimed at one stage that the IFR was 0.1% in Britain but changed her mind when it would mean that everyone in the UK would have had to have been infected. People claiming that this virus wouldnt spike again etc should just admit they got it very badly wrong and apologize . Its clearly a serious virus. Im sure countries in Europe are looking at the situation here with some envy, especially if a vaccine and better testing is soon available.

In my opinion it was much easier to hold illogical views based on personal circumstance in the summer. It was easy to justify no end of argument with cases and deaths low etc. More recently the arguments centred on us going to restrictions too quickly. Seeing what is occurring in the rest of Europe and given that we are only really at the start of winter those opinions aren't being put forward as much.

Arguments ranged from full on denialism to issues with specific metrics which were well founded. Thread might get a lot quieter in winter if there is not much debate to be had. I'm glad "the great Barrington declaration" has been proven to be dangerous wishful thinking. Based on the premise of protecting the vulnerable which clearly doesn't work. Watch it morph into "dying old people is natural and totally expected"

Prof Chris Whitty told MPs on the science and technology committee that the Great Barrington declaration, put forward by three scientists at Oxford, Harvard and Stanford universities, would lead to a very large number of deaths and was unlikely to achieve such widespread immunity that the epidemic would fizzle out naturally.

https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1323769934200082433?s=20

Widdensushi

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

It was quite clear

I'm not getting into pedantics but that is simply not true.

Easier to quote the whole post, but why not put in the extra effort to misrepresent it!!!!

Paddygreen

I think it is time we said our goodbyes to Belgium guys. Thanks for Jean Claude Van Dam, Stella, French fries, and lots of other things that I can’t remember right now.

Jim_Hodge

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello.

No, it will be a modified version of Level 3.

We hope, apart from possibly minor short-term local tweaks of increased restrictions, that this formula will maintain a medium to long term steady state of virus suppression, until we have a secure and validated step change in our armoury against the virus, such as a vaccine.

Can I ask who this "we" you keep using refers to?

Dr. Bre

Paddygreen wrote: »

I think it is time we said our goodbyes to Belgium guys. Thanks for Jean Claude Van Dam, Stella, French fries, and lots of other things that I can’t remember right now.

Chocolate?

caveat emptor

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Can I ask who this "we" you keep using refers to?

intriguing . I'd like to know that too. I usually use we when I refer to me, myself and Irene or when I'm trying to share the blame for a bad decision.

https://www.pm360online.com/beware-of-the-use-of-we-in-the-workplace/

Dr. Bre

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Chocolate?

Leffe and Duvel

I hadn't realised that Belgium's case numbers was so high. Their population is 11.5 million and theyve had over 200,000 cases in the last 2 weeks.

Its hardly affecting us here by comparison.

Funsterdelux

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Can I ask who this "we" you keep using refers to?

The "royal we"?

Eod100

I'd say NPHET will express opposition to this.

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1323949129354137601

Funsterdelux

Paddygreen wrote: »

I think it is time we said our goodbyes to Belgium guys. Thanks for Jean Claude Van Dam, Stella, French fries, and lots of other things that I can’t remember right now.

I know I'll miss Tintin

Seamai

Funsterdelux wrote: »

I know I'll miss Tintin

I'll miss Captain Haddock.

ArthurDayne

caveat emptor wrote: »

In my opinion it was much easier to hold illogical views based on personal circumstance in the summer. It was easy to justify no end of argument with cases and deaths low etc. More recently the arguments centred on us going to restrictions too quickly. Seeing what is occurring in the rest of Europe and given that we are only really at the start of winter those opinions aren't being put forward as much.

Arguments ranged from full on denialism to issues with specific metrics which were well founded. Thread might get a lot quieter in winter if there is not much debate to be had. I'm glad "the great Barrington declaration" has been proven to be dangerous wishful thinking. Based on the premise of protecting the vulnerable which clearly doesn't work. Watch it morph into "dying old people is natural and totally expected"




https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1323769934200082433?s=20

The argument that people dying at life expectancy age is a tolerable outcome is hardly a new one which is waiting in the wings to be unleashed. It seems to be false prescience to predict the emergence of an argument which is already being made. It is perfectly valid for people to ask why years of socioeconomic misery, and all the issues that will come with it, is a price worth paying in a fight against a virus where the median age of death exceeds our average life expectancy.

The undeniable advantage your argument has is simply that the lines of causation in your argument are shorter, clearer and more direct. Sure, it will be hard for the likes of me to come back to you and say “hey, this major socioeconomic problem / healthcare issue / rise of extremism / addiction problems / mental health issues / outbreak of violence is a direct result of what we did in the Covid crisis” — but that doesn’t make it any less real. It’s simply a case that the lines of causation are more complex, but still pose a real threat if one looks holistically at it.

Your argument has the advantage of a clear immediate threat and the luxury of a moral high ground. As the years drag on, it will be interesting to see whether you stand by all that unfolds and confidently stand by the argument that the price we paid was worth it.