Nations cup November 2020 GENERAL THREAD

UAEguy2020

From the George neck hold, to the Launchbury tackle in the air to today England are getting so many favourable decisions.

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

Turnover good... But should surely have also been a penalty for Billy holding for a good 5-6 seconds before be eventually managed to rip it??

I really don't think that was a legal turnover anyway. Absolute madness at the end there

MaddChris

Robbery
I'd be scared now to get Brace referring a Ireland/Minster game.

UAEguy2020

MaddChris wrote: »

Robbery
I'd be scared now to get Brace referring a Ireland/Minster game.

We're safe as long as its not a provincial derby.

Utah_Saint

MaddChris wrote: »

Robbery
I'd be scared now to get Brace referring a Ireland/Minster game.

Brace is an Irish ref

fitz

Bazzo wrote: »

Turnover good... But should surely have also been a penalty for Billy holding for a good 5-6 seconds before be eventually managed to rip it??

Exactly.
Sure, play advantage to see if France benefit, but they got no advantage from it...

From the knock-on on 79 minutes, France got ridden by the ref, and likely would have won if some very clear and obvious decisions had been called correctly.

Farcical.

The Lost Sheep

MaddChris wrote: »

Robbery
I'd be scared now to get Brace referring a Ireland/Minster game.

Cant do an irish game as is an irish ref.

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I really don't think that was a legal turnover anyway. Absolute madness at the end there

Looked alright from a cursory glance but you may well be right. Don't understand how Brace could say the turnover was legal though and not also penalise Vunipola for holding on.

bilston

So tight ref calls there.

Anyway an exciting match.

England may be winners today...but long term France could be scary

MaddChris

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Brace is an Irish ref

His Welshness always has me forgetting

Utah_Saint

MaddChris wrote: »

His Welshness always has me forgetting

Aye I think he's aligned to the Munster branch

awec

The future is bright for France anyway.

The Lost Sheep

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Aye I think he's aligned to the Munster branch

Been based in Ireland 10 years. moved here originally to work as a development officer with Munster. took up refereeing 7 years when ref didnt turn up to a schools game. very similar to johnny lacey who was also a development officer and first game he did was when a ref wasnt appointed/didnt turn up for a schools game.

awec

awec wrote: »

The future is bright for France anyway.

they will be contenders in 2023 for sure

such shambolic coaching and selection they had for so long - it was unforgivable really

Ireland benefited there

Pool draw tomorrow week Dec 14th

Ireland praying for Wales in the group

clsmooth

The game is broken. You’re rewarded for not having the ball. Would love to see the kick statistics for the game. France didn’t have the ball for more than a few phases at a time from about the 35th min onwards.

awec

I don't want to repeat myself but golden points is a terrible concept. Neither team can do anything, it rewards mediocrity. Promotes a turgid kicking game as teams just need to keep the ball out of their half, which gives an enormous advantage to whoever kicks off first. If Farrell wasn't a bit dodgy today extra time would have lasted like a minute.

UAEguy2020

If anything this autumn has really shown that England winning is papering over a lot of crack just like at the start of the Jones reign, people seem to confuse that with winning in 2nd gear but just like the last time I think it’s going to take a 2018 style 6N disaster for people to realize that there are infact cracks, I initially thought England were playing in 2nd gear but as it’s gone on I’m starting to think this is just in-fact where England are and today showed just like in the RWC if England can’t beat you up (also to an extent Wales in the last 6N) they run out of ideas very quick.

France what today showed is they really do have a backbone, yes they have their individual brilliance but they can also hang in their when they need to and take their points when they come,like is said earlier you wouldn’t had thought England were the experienced team playing today, the other side to that though is it was a France team with nothing to lose and everything to gain, will be interesting at full strength when they have expectations in the 6N what they can do.

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

I don't want to repeat myself but golden points is a terrible concept. Neither team can do anything, it rewards mediocrity. Promotes a turgid kicking game as teams just need to keep the ball out of their half, which gives an enormous advantage to whoever kicks off first. If Farrell wasn't a bit dodgy today extra time would have lasted like a minute.

I'd never even heard of it in rugby before, is it just in place for the Autumn Nations cup?

razorblunt

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Is there a law for that? Is it different from England screaming at lineouts

I think I've only ever seen it penalised once.
It would have been the perfect opportunity for Owens to call for it.

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

I don't want to repeat myself but golden points is a terrible concept. Neither team can do anything, it rewards mediocrity. Promotes a turgid kicking game as teams just need to keep the ball out of their half, which gives an enormous advantage to whoever kicks off first. If Farrell wasn't a bit dodgy today extra time would have lasted like a minute.

What do you do instead. Just straight extra time and play to end of 10/20 minutes regardless?

Bazzo wrote: »

I'd never even heard of it in rugby before, is it just in place for the Autumn Nations cup?

Ive seen it in few competitions.

Not much else it could be in place for.

razorblunt

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

From the George neck hold, to the Launchbury tackle in the air to today England are getting so many favourable decisions.

George has been at that all tournament, he had 2 or 3 against Ireland alone. He was looking at the ref for the first one, knew he had carte blanche after that.

UAEguy2020

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

If anything this autumn has really shown that England winning is papering over a lot of crack just like at the start of the Jones reign, people seem to confuse that with winning in 2nd gear but just like the last time I think it’s going to take a 2018 style 6N disaster for people to realize that there are infact cracks, I initially thought England were playing in 2nd gear but as it’s gone on I’m starting to think this is just in-fact where England are and today showed just like in the RWC if England can’t beat you up (also to an extent Wales in the last 6N) they run out of ideas very quick.

World Cup final, 6N winner. One-off crappy competition winner.

Not a bad 12 months or so of crack-papering :pac:

sydthebeat

Bazzo wrote: »

I'd never even heard of it in rugby before, is it just in place for the Autumn Nations cup?

ive seen it twice this year in SH rugby

first game was where the red and the rebels played out an absolutely terrible turgid dour 20 mins of kick tennis and neither team could score.

second time was completely different, canterbury played wellington in the mitre 10.. and both teams went hell for leather at each other in 'golden time'

i think it comes down to mindset and fear of losing

Bazzo

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What do you do instead. Just straight extra time and play to end of 10/20 minutes regardless?

Ive seen it in few competitions.

Not much else it could be in place for.

Could be used in pro14 and European knockouts but fairly sure they use extra time followed by penalty shootout if required don't they? Thought that was the norm and seems a better system than golden points even if it's not perfect.

awec

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What do you do instead. Just straight extra time and play to end of 10/20 minutes regardless?

Ive seen it in few competitions.

Not much else it could be in place for.

Should just play 20 minutes extra time.

Or they could do it where the first team to score 7 points wins, to incentivise going for a try and playing a bit, but also allowing teams to defend properly and not be terrified of penalties.

In a sport where there are loads of penalties every single game, it seems silly to have golden points. It's like soccer having an extra time where the first team to win a free kick wins.

UAEguy2020

razorblunt wrote: »

George has been at that all tournament, he had 2 or 3 against Ireland alone. He was looking at the ref for the first one, knew he had carte blanche after that.

The question is where is the TMO? The TMO missed nothing when we committed a foul...

TomsOnTheRoof

clsmooth wrote: »

The game is broken. You’re rewarded for not having the ball. Would love to see the kick statistics for the game. France didn’t have the ball for more than a few phases at a time from about the 35th min onwards.

The current interpretation of the laws favours the defending team far too much. It's got to the stage where you are more likely to be punished for breaking the line than you are for one out pick and jams.

The laws didn't need to be changed. They just needed to be implemented correctly. Every game you watch you can see the defending side set their line half way up the ruck. For the most part the TJ's don't want to know about it. Another massive issue was (and is) the attacking side failing to keep their feet at the ruck. When they run a latch the supporting player goes to ground and seals off before getting back to their feet and even then their shoulders are below their hips.

I understand the logic behind the current iteration. By making the breakdown favour the defending side WR were obviously hoping that this would force teams to commit more players to the ruck in defence, leaving more space out wide. However it doesn't seem to be working.

We need to move away from tinkering with the laws every second year and focus more on actually calling out players on offside and offences at the ruck. How Williams wasn't given a red for his clear out yesterday is beyond me. It was dangerous and negligent and it is the responsibility of the officiating team to punish instances such as these rather than arguing semantics.

Ardillaun

England were lucky with the decisions there.

I wondered why France took off Woki who was causing havoc at the lineout until I saw Macalou in action. BTW is screaming a thing at lineouts as the hooker throws now? I never noticed it before Itoje and quieter stadiums. Neti made a great last-gasp shirt-grab on May. Their tackling was excellent all day. France have bucket loads of talent. The challenge is to use it at the national level. One of those good problems.

The Lost Sheep

Ardillaun wrote: »

England were lucky with the decisions there.

I wondered why France took off Woki who was causing havoc at the lineout until I saw Macalou in action. BTW is screaming a thing at lineouts as the hooker throws now? I never noticed it before Itoje and quieter stadiums. Neti made a great last-gasp shirt-grab on May. Their tackling was excellent all day. France have bucket loads of talent. The challenge is to use it at the national level. One of those good problems.

Talking/putting off hooker has always been a thing at all levels. Plenty irish do it as much as any others from elsewhere