US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

TomOnBoard

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

AOC is a senator so while I believe she could be speaker she would be the first senator to do so. So basically, no, it'll be a representative, not a senator.

Ahem, Puss... AOC is a House Rep... New York's 14th district... Just sayin'

Itssoeasy

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

AOC is a senator so while I believe she could be speaker she would be the first senator to do so. So basically, no, it'll be a representative, not a senator.

AOC isn’t a senator. She represents a New York district. I don’t know who you’ve her mixed up with but you’re wrong.

Rjd2

Canice Picklington wrote: »

Bush was an appalling president. He went to war on a lie and crashed the economy.

But he wasn't the first US president to go to war on a lie, Lyndon Johnson did so as well, though Johnson was a far superior president to Bush in every other way.

Bush was a stepping stone to Trump. Trump could not have happened without Bush.

But however bad Bush was, and he was terrible, he didn't sell his own country out like Trump did. He wouldn't have reacted as badly to Covid if it had happened on his watch. He at least tried to govern, if only in the utterly cack handed way that a bog standard useless, corporate Republican does. He didn't hate the people of his own country like Trump does. He didn't promote hatred between the people of his own country like Trump does. He didn't glory in sadism against his own people. He didn't praise Nazis and cultivate them as a private paramilitary group. He only created a parallel world of dystopian fantasy as regards some things, rather than literally everything. He wasn't quite as corrupt as Trump. He wasn't quite as anti-science as Trump. He didn't reject democracy to quite the same extent Trump does.

Trump would no doubt have crashed the US economy without a pandemic had he had another few years at it, and probably worse than Bush did. Crashing an economy takes time - even Bush only got around to it in his final year.

Bush left America in a place where it was possible, with some serious effort, to recover from what he did. I don't think Trump has. America now has to live with a rabid mob of 50-60 million people for whom basic truths are now a mortal attack on their whole identity.

Some legacy, and it will be a legacy, because the effects will be felt for a hell of a long time.

Trump has left America in a mess, but Bush lit the middle east on fire with an illegal war. Thousands upon thousands dead , generations radicalised and ultimately no accountability which I just find astonishing.

Bush, Cheaney, Powell and all their toadies such as Frum, Kristol etc all seem to have been romanticised simply because they are not as vulgar as Trump.

I also think we should have a debate about Reagan when we discuss who was the worst president of recent times, his oversea interventionism and his horrific brand of trickle down economics which is still relevant has done so much damage not just to America but the world,,,oh and the aids crisis which he has handled just as badly Trump did covid and Bush Katrina.

Like Bush though, seems to get a pass because he isn't a vulgar pig like Trump.


Ranking from less bad....

Trump
Reagan
Bush

I will say though Trump if he had got another term could have surpassed the other two in terms of awfulness but thankfully not and his inability to put the work in when it came to oversea coups "saves " him somewhat.

Exclamation Marc

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Clear, open communication will deal with pernicious undercurrents alleging 'voter fraud'

Hahaha. Yeah. Logic will never work.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Quin_Dub wrote: »

AOC is a member of congress , not the Senate.

Technically yes , she could be speaker , but she absolutely will not be.

Not yet anyway.

Saganist wrote: »

AOC is in the house. Not a senator.

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Ahem, Puss... AOC is a House Rep... New York's 14th district... Just sayin'

Itssoeasy wrote: »

AOC isn’t a senator. She represents a New York district. I don’t know who you’ve her mixed up with but you’re wrong.

I don't know why I thought she was a senator, I'm blaming the mental fatigue of the last few days. Thankfully my forced annual leave is ending soon and I can step away from this election for a few days. Embarrassingly, I even googled AOC to confirm she was a senator before I posted what I did....

Time for bed.

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

Clinton was pretty bad and Obama had his moments but Bush Jr. I still think was a worse president from an outside view than Trump. Sure Trump talks crap but Bush started conflicts that have changed the world very much for the worse and w are dealing with it through terrorism and a refugee crisis to this day

Goes back to Bush senior and Reagan imo especially the cold war proxy conflicts like the Iran and Iraq war, and Afghanistan Soviet Union conflict.

Midlife

Yes. 9/11 was the trigger but Bush led a republican military industrial response that has literally killed millions and made large parts of the middle east and north Africa no go areas.

Then he bankrupted the country.

Trump was awful for America. Maybe the world in terms of thing like climate and generally spreading ignorance.

But mainly trump was bad for the US.

TomOnBoard

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

I don't know why I thought she was a senator, I'm blaming the mental fatigue of the last few days. Thankfully my forced annual leave is ending soon and I can step away from this election for a few days. Embarrassingly, I even googled AOC to confirm she was a senator before I posted what I did....

Time for bed.

May you not be visited by Jimmy Bones in your slsep!

letowski

Maricopa County latest vote count:

Trump 38k
Biden 31k

Not good enough for Trump again. He will lose AZ. Just one more drop left in MC.

Biden still leads by about 30k.

Mr.Nice Guy

31,000 votes for Biden out of Maricopa County.

38,000 for Trump.

Exclamation Marc

Great result for Biden in the grand scheme of things. That's the second last large drop in AZ, tomorrow's will be about 65000 more votes.

Canice Picklington

Somebody innocently throwing a piece of paper in the bin = the whole election was rigged by this deep state guy, let's make him go into hiding for his own safety

Trumpworld, a hate filled, dystopian, paranoid, reactionary world of total make believe, **** yeah

https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1324885446632083458

letowski

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Great result for Biden in the grand scheme of things. That's the second last large drop in AZ, tomorrow's will be about 65000 more votes.

As someone eloquently put it, Round 10/12 is finished and Biden is ahead on points.

Francie Barrett

I really hope that there are people out there who are keeping tabs on the active Trump enablers in all this. At least the Republicans who are silent in all this or ambivalent can come out with the cleanest dirty shirts. It's the people who've been enabling all this nonsense since Trump jumped the shark on all this that need to be targeted.

Exclamation Marc

Up to 47000 provisional ballots won't be counted in AZ til Tuesday.

Ffs it feels like this is never going to end.

Thread will need to be renamed to Judgement Week(s) at this rate.

~Rebel~

With the latest update on the numbers that there’s 126,000 ballots left in Arizona, you’d feel like Biden wins the state by about 15,000.

It’s generally been developing as Biden getting chipped away by 10% of each dump total.

Even with the provisionals after that, it shouldn’t be enough to change the state. All if the trend we’ve seen over the past few days remains of course.

What.Now

Rjd2 wrote: »

Trump has left America in a mess, but Bush lit the middle east on fire with an illegal war. Thousands upon thousands dead , generations radicalised and ultimately no accountability which I just find astonishing.

Bush, Cheaney, Powell and all their toadies such as Frum, Kristol etc all seem to have been romanticised simply because they are not as vulgar as Trump.

I also think we should have a debate about Reagan when we discuss who was the worst president of recent times, his oversea interventionism and his horrific brand of trickle down economics which is still relevant has done so much damage not just to America but the world,,,oh and the aids crisis which he has handled just as badly Trump did covid and Bush Katrina.

Like Bush though, seems to get a pass because he isn't a vulgar pig like Trump.


Ranking from less bad....

Trump
Reagan
Bush

I will say though Trump if he had got another term could have surpassed the other two in terms of awfulness but thankfully not and his inability to put the work in when it came to oversea coups "saves " him somewhat.

I'd like to agree with this that Reagan's name should be brought into this **** Fest and the romanticised version of Bush. We need to be careful in future that just because they don't look as bad as Trump doesn't mean that they are suitable for the job.

Mr.Nice Guy

538 says Philadelphia will have no further updates tonight. Unlikely there will be any significant developments in the next few hours and Biden's speech is likely to just be an update on things like last night.

In more positive news...

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1324896264677416966

letowski

~Rebel~ wrote: »

With the latest update on the numbers that there’s 126,000 ballots left in Nevada, you’d feel like Biden wins the state by about 15,000.

It’s generally been developing as Biden getting chipped away by 10% of each dump total.

Even with the provisionals after that, it shouldn’t be enough to change the state.

Yeah I'm getting about the same with my spreadsheet. Excluding Maricopa for a second, of the next 4 largest baskets left, Pima (19k), Pinal (29k), Apache (9k) and Cochise (7k), Pinal is the only red county. Only about 12k left after that then. Even if I shift the splits overly conservative, I can't see Trump get within 10k.

They should call the state after the next Maricopa drop.

Edit. I think that’s a good time to call it a night. The early morning crew will be along I’m sure keeping us updated!

AllForIt

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

In more positive news...

https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1324896264677416966

And because the race is so tight would mean what? Put your thinking cap on now.

Outlaw Pete

Midlife wrote: »

To be frank Pete. I don't even look into your posts anymore.

No need to tell me that. Fine by me.

everlast75 wrote: »

Can't help but chuckle when all of a sudden, Trump supporters care about election security and playing by the rules.

The mueller report makes it clear Trump welcomed foreign interference and yet that was a nothing burger?

There's no sudden interest in Election Security from "Trump supporters". Every single complaint about the Steele Dossier was a complaint about election interference given the objective of those who paid for it and then utilized it.

dark crystal wrote: »

Pete, can I ask why you think the Republican senate vote held up so well if the votes were fraudulent? How do you square that?

So ballots can't have been backdated because Democrats failed to take control of the Senate? That makes no sense. The claim of the postal workers is that some late ballots may have been backdated given they witnessed those instructions being given out, not that fraudulent votes were backdated. It was the backdating the ballots that made them fraudulent.

Perhaps you're asking me about ballots that are fraudulent regardless of when they were received; on time ballots, in which case: who knows why, perhaps they hate Trump more than they hate Republicans. Fraud doesn't always have to be sophisticated, it can be clumsy and obvious. Amazes me how people can so readily accept that the US Presidential candidate that campaigned the least, got more votes than any other Presidential candidate in US history.

Trump predicted this may occur:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1296597150181330944
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248031484532928514


But of course democrats fight him tooth and nail on legislation which would likely curtail the possibility of fraud. The elephant in the room is that mail-in voting always benefits democrats because of the demographics of their base. They know this. We all know this.

Interesting from Justice Alito given some States it appeared were paying no mind to the previous order re separating pre-deadline ballots:


https://twitter.com/ShannonBream/status/1324902791027044352

Somecrimesitry

Very clever by the Dems to implement this brilliant vote fraud scheme in 2020...although I'm not sure why they didn't do it in 2016??? Or against any of the previous Republican election successes. Seems pretty dumb to have the ability to falsify an election result but never use it before. Huh...must be like the enigma machine in WWII...they didn't want to let on to the Nazi's that they had cracked the code, just like in WWII:)

population

Somecrimesitry wrote: »

Very clever by the Dems to implement this brilliant vote fraud scheme in 2020...although I'm not sure why they didn't do it in 2016??? Or against any of the previous Republican election successes. Seems pretty dumb to have the ability to falsify an election result but never use it before. Huh...must be like the enigma machine in WWII...they didn't want to let on to the Nazi's that they had cracked the code, just like in WWII:)

In the past when one side lost they handed over the reins, said congratulations to the victors, licked their wounds and started to do some self reflection so as they could pinpoint what went wrong and re-group for the next election.

Now it's the fault of an East European troll factory (2016) or it's mass mail fraud. No soul searching, no acceptance of the fact that one side got their voter based energised enough to come out for them more than the other side. Nothing. We did nothing wrong. It's all everybody else's fault. Lather rinse repeat.

~Rebel~

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

So ballots can't have been backdated because Democrats failed to take control of the Senate? That makes no sense. The claim of the postal workers is that some late ballots may have been backdated given they witnessed those instructions being given out, not that fraudulent votes were backdated. It was the backdating the ballots that made them fraudulent.

Still lying about your "whistleblower" (who didn't blow any whistles) after being called out on it numerous times already?

Once again - the quote within your own video - 1 minute in exactly, go check it out;
"The Postmaster and the supervisor did not say that we're going to backdate them"

But of course democrats fight him tooth and nail on legislation which would likely curtail the possibility of fraud. The elephant in the room is that mail-in voting always benefits democrats because of the demographics of their base. They know this. We all know this.

Is this not a wonderful thing? To open up forms of voting that increase voter turnout of the American people? Especially those on the margins of society! It sounds like you're more in favour of gatekeeping the voting process to stop people that work 80+ hours a week to make ends meet from being able to get off to vote. Perhaps we place the voting booths at places only reachable by helicopter rental? I'm sure that would help the republicans.

Frankly it doesn't matter a damn who you support - as an American, allowing voting measures that increase the often embarrassingly low voter turnout in the United States should always be seen as a good thing.

Canice Picklington

There's a really good Twitter thread here by former conservative activist Matthew Sheffield which absolutely skewers the craziness and the mentality of the right-wing media bubble. I strongly recommend reading to the end.

For Sheffield, "US conservatives do not understand the purpose of journalism".

A lot of what he says is fairly self apparent to those who are familiar with the way right wing media works, but it's very interesting to see somebody who worked in that sphere call it out so clearly for the fraud it is.

Back in the 1990s there was a guy called David Brock who was one the original rabid right wing attack dogs for the right, especially against Bill Clinton, Brock then had qualms of conscience and turned completely against what he had been doing, and admitted his whole modus operandi was basically to shout as many lies as possible.

https://twitter.com/mattsheffield/status/1324913516193542145

Quantum Erasure

Biden just left his house,

~Rebel~

Canice Picklington wrote: »

There's a really good Twitter thread here by former conservative activist Matthew Sheffield which absolutely skewers the craziness and the mentality of the right-wing media bubble. I strongly recommend reading to the end.

For Sheffield, "US conservatives do not understand the purpose of journalism".

A lot of what he says is fairly self apparent to those who are familiar with the way right wing media works, but it's very interesting to see somebody who worked in that sphere call it out so clearly for the fraud it is.

Back in the 1990s there was a guy called David Brock who was one the original rabid right wing attack dogs for the right, especially against Bill Clinton, Brock then had qualms of conscience and turned completely against what he had been doing, and admitted his whole modus operandi was basically to shout as many lies as possible.

https://twitter.com/mattsheffield/status/1324913516193542145

Thanks for that, really interesting!

Brian?

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

No need to tell me that. Fine by me.



There's no sudden interest in Election Security from "Trump supporters". Every single complaint about the Steele Dossier was a complaint about election interference given the objective of those who paid for it and then utilized it.



So ballots can't have been backdated because Democrats failed to take control of the Senate? That makes no sense. The claim of the postal workers is that some late ballots may have been backdated given they witnessed those instructions being given out, not that fraudulent votes were backdated. It was the backdating the ballots that made them fraudulent.

Perhaps you're asking me about ballots that are fraudulent regardless of when they were received; on time ballots, in which case: who knows why, perhaps they hate Trump more than they hate Republicans. Fraud doesn't always have to be sophisticated, it can be clumsy and obvious. Amazes me how people can so readily accept that the US Presidential candidate that campaigned the least, got more votes than any other Presidential candidate in US history.

Trump predicted this may occur:


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1296597150181330944
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1248031484532928514


But of course democrats fight him tooth and nail on legislation which would likely curtail the possibility of fraud. The elephant in the room is that mail-in voting always benefits democrats because of the demographics of their base. They know this. We all know this.

Interesting from Justice Alito given some States it appeared were paying no mind to the previous order re separating pre-deadline ballots:


https://twitter.com/ShannonBream/status/1324902791027044352

Trump didn't predict it, he made it happen. He was against mail in ballots so GOP voters turned up the day to vote.

Mail in ballots favour Biden because more people voted for Biden by mail.

Biden is winning, because more people voted for him. End of discussion.

Manic Moran

letowski wrote: »

The military ballots in a mute point in GA. I doubt there is much returned at this stage. Nonetheless, there are military bases in and around the Savannah area where you get large young African American male population that join the military there. And give all Trump comments this year, they won't split well for Trump.

Though not really relevant, I'm not convinced by that logic. Stewart and Benning are both combat arms bases. The Army does not care where you are from when it assigns you places, and blacks disproportionately choose 'trade' jobs. (Mechanic, logistics, admin etc). The argument, for what little credence I give it, would apply more to bases like Lee or Knox.

AOC is a member of congress , not the Senate.

Senators are members of congress... just to be clear. Your statement is correct, of course.

AllForIt

Canice Picklington wrote: »

There's a really good Twitter thread here by former conservative activist Matthew Sheffield which absolutely skewers the craziness and the mentality of the right-wing media bubble. I strongly recommend reading to the end.

For Sheffield, "US conservatives do not understand the purpose of journalism".

A lot of what he says is fairly self apparent to those who are familiar with the way right wing media works, but it's very interesting to see somebody who worked in that sphere call it out so clearly for the fraud it is.

Back in the 1990s there was a guy called David Brock who was one the original rabid right wing attack dogs for the right, especially against Bill Clinton, Brock then had qualms of conscience and turned completely against what he had been doing, and admitted his whole modus operandi was basically to shout as many lies as possible.

https://twitter.com/mattsheffield/status/1324913516193542145

That's all very interesting but I classify rampant media bias and inaccurate polling as lies. And I'll bet you one thing, there won't be much analysis of woefully inaccurate polling in the final analysis except for maybe a few comments just so the media can say they covered it.