US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

harr

He will probably pack up and go over Christmas and go off sulking down to one of his resorts. It will be hard to see having any interaction with Biden at all.
His rants and his families rants on Twitter must be starting to become an embarrassment for some republicans at this stage.
You would wonder what hold he has over Giuliani

Spanish Eyes

440Hertz wrote: »

I would reckon that absolutely everyone with any sense will try to avoid that.

The Republicans will ultimately have to weigh in heavily too, should they want to retain any shred of dignity. There’ll come a point where enough is enough.

I think this vista of Trump refusing to leave the WH is over egged. He is a despicable moron, but I don't think he is stupid enough to take it that far. Seems more of a Dem Dream scenario to me.

Anyway he can stay there until the Inauguration and the interregnum could be the danger zone for manchild Trump to get revenge. That's my concern.

breezy1985

harr wrote: »

He will probably pack up and go over Christmas and go off sulking down to one of his resorts. It will be hard to see having any interaction with Biden at all.
His rants and his families rants on Twitter must be starting to become an embarrassment for some republicans at this stage.
You would wonder what hold he has over Giuliani

Well we don't know how he has him on such a short leash but at least we now know where he buys the leashes from : )

440Hertz

To be honest I don’t think the Dems would want to see anything of the sort.

He’s going to try and pardon as many of the cronies as possible and then protect himself and his immediate family.

The next few weeks will be entertaining, as I think you’ll see a lot of cronies being thrown under the bus and suddenly he’ll never have heard of them or only vaguely knew them.

He’s also reputed to be someone who’ll try and get revenge & attribute blame, so you can be sure he’ll go out in a storm.

He, or Ivanka and Jarred and the inner circle will now be trying to come up with an exit strategy.

If it goes down to him locking himself in the White House in January, I think then we really would be crossing into la la land stuff and it would just be hugely embarrassing for him, rather than anything of constitutional consequence. His legacy would be in the toilet, and I suspect that does matter to him.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he snubs the inauguration though.

Mr.Nice Guy

It's just getting sad now, and what makes it worse is Trump doesn't have the self-awareness to realise that.

As regards Biden, I didn't realise he regarded Wolfe Tone as his political hero.

https://twitter.com/jlpobrien/status/1325212974726803457

StringerBell

breezy1985 wrote: »

What happens if he physically refuses to leave the White House. At what stage in the tantrum do the security just pick him up and drag him out by the arms and legs

12.01pm January 20th 2021

prawnsambo

Almost 24 hours without concession. Must be getting close to a record. Anyone know if this has happened before?

Exclamation Marc

prawnsambo wrote: »

Almost 24 hours without concession. Must be getting close to a record. Anyone know if this has happened before?

2000 is the obvious example which took 35 days in theory.

prawnsambo

This according to Maggie Haberman of the NYT. I assume these would be people well enough up in the administration to be familiar enough with her to send her texts.

prawnsambo

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

2000 is the obvious example which took 35 days in theory.

Point taken. But there was no incumbent involved and it was a very close race. I'm more thinking of a clear-cut victory like this.

ExMachina1000

Brian? wrote: »

Give over. Bide never supported defunding the police.

This is what I was referring to yesterday when I spoke about fringe elements.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1325289842247299073?s=20

They have started already. It's only 2 minutes long. Listen to their gripes and why they are there.

"You shouldn't be out here celebrating. Unless you are with this movement go home"

"We are just getting started "

Exclamation Marc

prawnsambo wrote: »

Point taken. But there was no incumbent involved and it was a very close race. I'm more thinking of a clear-cut victory like this.

Apologies, didn't mean my response to sound so bullish

And in a way, it's a special case again because Gore did concede but then took it back.

firemansam4

440Hertz wrote: »

To be honest I don’t think the Dems would want to see anything of the sort.

He’s going to try and pardon as many of the cronies as possible and then protect himself and his immediate family.

The next few weeks will be entertaining, as I think you’ll see a lot of cronies being thrown under the bus and suddenly he’ll never have heard of them or only vaguely knew them.

He’s also reputed to be someone who’ll try and get revenge & attribute blame, so you can be sure he’ll go out in a storm.

He, or Ivanka and Jarred and the inner circle will now be trying to come up with an exit strategy.

If it goes down to him locking himself in the White House in January, I think then we really would be crossing into la la land stuff and it would just be hugely embarrassing for him, rather than anything of constitutional consequence. His legacy would be in the toilet, and I suspect that does matter to him.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he snubs the inauguration though.

I think this may have been mentioned a few times before but I wonder will Trump even see through the remaining term of his presidency now?

He may just decide to resign just before handover and leave that to Pence.

He will claim that he doesn't want to take part in a sham from a fraudulent election and will vow to devote his time to uncovering the "truth" of how he sees he was robbed of power.

Capt'n Midnight

440Hertz wrote: »

It depends how far it goes. If he’s trying to remain in the White House beyond 12:00 noon (Washington DC time) on 20 January he would be open to being physically evicted from the White House.
...
The mechanics of it have probably never been considered, but it would likely be a case of being escorted off the property by White House security.

The mechanics could be as simple as not letting him back in after a trip to a golf course. And that could be as simple as having a warning light on the helicopter forcing an immediate landing in the middle of nowhere.

Another approach is that he gets arrested and has to do the perp walk. Plenty of stuff he could be accused of, especially if people thing he's lost his power and influence.

Brussels Sprout

Famously, Hillary Clinton would have won the 2016 election had she just won another 80k votes across Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania.

Well just looking at the numbers as they currently stand this election was even closer then that.

The current, total cumulative margin in Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia & Nebraska's 2nd district is only 71k votes. Flipping the 4 of those would have been enough to give Trump a narrow 270-268 win.

That margin is likely to come down further still as votes come in in Arizona.

Thanks to the Electoral College, this was about as tight as they come.

Capt'n Midnight

firemansam4 wrote: »

I think this may have been mentioned a few times before but I wonder will Trump even see through the remaining term of his presidency now?

He may just decide to resign just before handover and leave that to Pence.

He will claim that he doesn't want to take part in a sham from a fraudulent election and will vow to devote his time to uncovering the "truth" of how he sees he was robbed of power.

He could save 130,000 lives during the rest of his term by following medical advice and promoting masks.

https://www.dw.com/en/us-could-see-half-a-million-coronavirus-deaths-by-end-of-winter-study-warns/a-55379763

But he's still president and if he stepped down then Pence gets the job and I can't see any US politician refusing that.

Conspiracy theory would be that the first thing Pence would do is give Trump a presidential pardon. But that won't stop the civil or local stuff.

Girly Gal

Some people on here live in fantasy land, Trump will eventually have to accept the result, he definitely won't barricade himself in the White House. He might be a crass individual, but, he's not stupid, he probably knew this was a strong possibility and this is his last stand. As for him facing charges, that won't happen, there might be an "attempt" by the Biden administration to go after him, but, it'll all be for show and nothing will come of it, mainly because they know in 4 year's time the Republicans would do the same to them. On both sides there's too many skeletons that may come to light if they do presue Trump, so it'll be a case of letting sleeping dogs lie.

StringerBell

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

2000 is the obvious example which took 35 days in theory.

Well, Gore conceded on the night and then withdrew it when the landscape changed.

Edit: I see it's been dealt with

prawnsambo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

He could save 130,000 lives during the rest of his term by following medical advice and promoting masks.

https://www.dw.com/en/us-could-see-half-a-million-coronavirus-deaths-by-end-of-winter-study-warns/a-55379763

But he's still president and if he stepped down then Pence gets the job and I can't see any US politician refusing that.

Conspiracy theory would be that the first thing Pence would do is give Trump a presidential pardon. But that won't stop the civil or local stuff.

You can't pardon somebody for crimes they haven't been charged with yet. Like it's not a get out of jail free card. And certainly not for crimes committed and indicted for at state level.

Carfacemandog

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Famously, Hillary Clinton would have won the 2016 election had she just won another 80k votes across Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania.

Well just looking at the numbers as they currently stand this election was even closer then that.

The current, total cumulative margin in Wisconsin, Arizona, Georgia & Nebraska's 2nd district is only 71k votes. Flipping the 4 of those would have been enough to give Trump a narrow 270-268 win.

That margin is likely to come down further still as votes come in in Arizona.

Thanks to the Electoral College, this was about as tight as they come.

In a nation of 350mn, this is an excellent example of one of the key reasons that the US is fundamentally broken.

Carfacemandog

Girly Gal wrote: »

Trump will eventually have to accept the result, he definitely won't barricade himself in the White House. He might be a crass individual, but, he's not stupid,

Actually... He kind of is. Seemingly every time we hear "he won't do [X], he's not stupid" he immediately come flying out doing X, as if he needs to prove how stupid he is on a frequent basis. I expect that this won't be much different.

StringerBell

prawnsambo wrote: »

You can't pardon somebody for crimes they haven't been charged with yet. Like it's not a get out of jail free card. And certainly not for crimes committed and indicted for at state level.

You can actually, federally. Nixon for example was pardoned for crimes he had not been charges with in relation to Watergate. The pardon can be used for presumptive future cases like that, incredibly. No pardon at all for state level to my knowledge.

looksee

He is setting the stage for everyone to forgive him all his iniquities in exchange for going quietly and not riling up his base. He thinks.

abff

looksee wrote: »

He is setting the stage for everyone to forgive him all his iniquities in exchange for going quietly and not riling up his base. He thinks.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was using refusal to concede as a bargaining chip for a presidential pardon from Biden. Whether Biden would go for it or not is another question entirely.

Brussels Sprout

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Can't ever see AOC ever getting a run at president. She is too much of a turn off for the moderates that can flip between Dem and Rep. Some Democrats believed the high visibility of AOC and the squad was a big problem for Biden's campaign.

Conservative media have had their sights on her since she came to prominence 2 years ago. She's their favourite bogey-(wo)man. I can't imagine the likes of CNN & MSNBC would be big fans of her democratic socialism ideas either. She hasn't a hope of winning a national election unless the electorate radically changes in the coming decades.

I see her path instead leading to the Senate which could be a long term home for her.

murpho999

Carfacemandog wrote: »

In a nation of 350mn, this is an excellent example of one of the key reasons that the US is fundamentally broken.

How
People are entitled to vote for who the want?

I don't see how close election results means a country is broken?

everlast75

abff wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was using refusal to concede as a bargaining chip for a presidential pardon from Biden. Whether Biden would go for it or not is another question entirely.

He has zero cards.

His bluff game is awful.

Poor baby has never been told "no" in his life.

Can't bully his way out of it this time.

Girly Gal

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Actually... He kind of is. Seemingly every time we hear "he won't do [X], he's not stupid" he immediately come flying out doing X, as if he needs to prove how stupid he is on a frequent basis. I expect that this won't be much different.

All of that is playing to his support base, they lap it up, I'd say he doesn't give a toss for them, they were just a means to an end. This is the same "stupid guy " who managed to become president despite having no real political experience and a Republican party that grudgingly gave him their support when they realised he might win. It's that kind of attitude to him that the Democrats learned to their cost in 2016 and almost repeated this time, but, were probably saved by the Coronavirus, which tipped things in Biden's favour. The margin of victory is actually quite small despite the huge turnout. It's not the clear cut victory the media would have you believe. Biden takes over a deeply divided country which will remain divided even with Trump gone.

prawnsambo

I feel the time is right to add 'totally landscaped' to the dictionary. Meaning attempting something so badly that you end up having to settle for something greatly inferior. "We were supposed to book a nice holiday abroad but were totally landscaped into Butlins".

Brussels Sprout

murpho999 wrote: »

How
People are entitled to vote for who the want?

I don't see how close election results means a country is broken?

...but it's not really a close election - only in the contorted, anachronistic world of the electoral college.

At the same time as that 71k margin is being whittled down by votes coming in in Arizona the overall total margin is increasing by millions in California and New York. Millions of people are disenfranchised by the Electoral College. The USA is the only country where their main election by-passes all of their major cities.

Just because it's the convention doesn't make it any less democratic.