US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

Larbre34

I think the worst thing the GOP can do is keep Trump on board for the Senate run-offs. It would just build an outraged opposition, as moderates and independents become appalled at his treatment of the Constitution.

Frankly I think Pence and the cabinet are going to have to 25 this fecker.

jimmycrackcorm

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think the worst thing the GOP can do is keep Trump on board for the Senate run-offs. It would just build an outraged opposition, as moderates and independents become appalled at his treatment of the Constitution.

Frankly I think Pence and the cabinet are going to have to 25 this fecker.

Indeed, given Georgia flipped, I can imagine that they wouldn't take too kindly to Trump telling them that they were fraudulent and their votes don't count. Americans are very evenly divided politically, but they do feel incredibly strongly about their common underpinning of democracy. Republicans vote republican despite many disliking Trump and knowing he is a pathological liar. But this might be a step too far, especially when you can't really argue about 5 million extra votes being fraudulent.

In the end play, I think Biden will win the other states he's leading and the GOP will have to push Trump to accept that it's implausible to try the fake fraud voting tactic in all these states. Many if not most Republicans are just decent Americans and not the crazy sorts we see on TV shouting about the Biden crime family mafia or whatever. They don't want to see Trump become a version of Putin holding on to power at whatever cost.

Tell me how

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think the worst thing the GOP can do is keep Trump on board for the Senate run-offs. It would just build an outraged opposition, as moderates and independents become appalled at his treatment of the Constitution.

Frankly I think Pence and the cabinet are going to have to 25 this fecker.

Ain't going to happen.

Mitch McConnell met with Barr today and came out to support Trump. They've thrown the hammer after the hatchet in terms of supporting him.

Expect Georgia turnout will break record for a run-off contest.

dogbert27

It wouldn't surprise me if he'll only concede after getting guarantees of a presidential pardon for him and his family...... or just him!

BobbyMalone

dogbert27 wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me if he'll only concede after getting guarantees of a presidential pardon for him and his family...... or just him!

Can he pardon himself? I read about that here, but not sure if it was true or not.

BobbyMalone

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Can he pardon himself? I read about that here, but not sure if it was true or not.

Technically he might be able to but wide open to being legally challenged.

errlloyd

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Can he pardon himself? I read about that here, but not sure if it was true or not.

Pretty sure he can resign and have Pence pardon him. The old Nixon Ford.

Itssoeasy

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Can he pardon himself? I read about that here, but not sure if it was true or not.

The issue of can a president pardon themselves seems to be an iffy one. I say iffy because that’s the opinions giving to Nixon before he resigned. And if I was on solid ground Nixon would have done it and he didn’t.

Just reading up on what happened overnight and shockingly what trump telegraphed is coming to pass. The GOP have a lot to answer but the don’t care.

robinph

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Can he pardon himself? I read about that here, but not sure if it was true or not.

Pence certainly could if they did a switch in the next couple of months, but half the stuff he's going to face consequences for wouldn't be covered by any pardon.

Certainly not Deutsch Bank coming after him for the debts.

everlast75

BobbyMalone wrote: »

Can he pardon himself? I read about that here, but not sure if it was true or not.

He would have to admit the crimes for which he is being pardoned.

I would say that is quite the dilemma for him.

Admit on the world stage he is a criminal and be recorded as much for time immemorial
Or
Save his bacon

prawnsambo

everlast75 wrote: »

He would have to admit the crimes for which he is being pardoned.

I would say that is quite the dilemma for him.

Admit on the world stage he is a criminal and be recorded as much for time immemorial
Or
Save his bacon

That was what Ford said about his pardoning Nixon. A pardon carries an imputation of guilt and acceptance carries an acknowledgment of guilt.

the purple tin

errlloyd wrote: »

Pretty sure he can resign and have Pence pardon him. The old Nixon Ford.

That would probably put the kaibosh on Pence ever running for prez though. They reckon the pardon is why Ford didn't get re-elected.

OhHiMark

Are the Georgia run offs statewide votes or are they only in certain counties?

Quin_Dub

OhHiMark wrote: »

Are the Georgia run offs statewide votes or are they only in certain counties?

Full State wide votes for both

Paleface

There are a couple of motives at play here why the GOP are still backing Trump in my view.

1. Trump's popularity is clearly huge amongst the electorate and they have not yet figured out how to transfer the majority of this support to the party itself. They must continue to back him until he concedes
2. They want to stoke up as much angst as possible amongst their supporters to ensure a high turnout for any Senate runoffs
3. Mail in voting is going to kill them in the long run. They knew this all along but because of the pandemic could not stop it. All they can do now is discredit its usage enough to ensure that once the pandemic is over states go back to a policy of the majority of votes being cast in person on the day

Carfacemandog

Tell me how wrote: »

Ain't going to happen.

Mitch McConnell met with Barr today and came out to support Trump. They've thrown the hammer after the hatchet in terms of supporting him.

Expect Georgia turnout will break record for a run-off contest.

It could backfire spectacularly on them all right. On one hand they would have done well to get either of the Senate seats and asking for both is a lot. But inthe other, they've got the "we take the Senate and we have all 3!" momentum going with them, Susan Abrams by the sounds of things is just an absolute machine, and now they've got republicans flailing and potentially increasing voter turnout against them as a result, like happened in wisconsin during the primaries.

Carfacemandog

Paleface wrote: »

There are a couple of motives at play here why the GOP are still backing Trump in my view.

1. Trump's popularity is clearly huge amongst the electorate and they have not yet figured out how to transfer the majority of this support to the party itself. They must continue to back him until he concedes
2. They want to stoke up as much angst as possible amongst their supporters to ensure a high turnout for any Senate runoffs
3. Mail in voting is going to kill them in the long run. They knew this all along but because of the pandemic could not stop it. All they can do now is discredit its usage enough to ensure that once the pandemic is over states go back to a policy of the majority of votes being cast in person on the day

You left one out.

4. "Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."
- Former Bush Jr advisor David Frumm.

listermint

Paleface wrote: »

There are a couple of motives at play here why the GOP are still backing Trump in my view.

1. Trump's popularity is clearly huge amongst the electorate and they have not yet figured out how to transfer the majority of this support to the party itself. They must continue to back him until he concedes
2. They want to stoke up as much angst as possible amongst their supporters to ensure a high turnout for any Senate runoffs
3. Mail in voting is going to kill them in the long run. They knew this all along but because of the pandemic could not stop it. All they can do now is discredit its usage enough to ensure that once the pandemic is over states go back to a policy of the majority of votes being cast in person on the day

Dont underestimate that fact that various players in power in this play are actual criminals. And if they lose their grip on what they have they may end up in prison or answering for serious issues. I include trump and MMcC in this amongst various other senior GOP players.

When you back a rat into a corner it is not going to go meekly

ToddDameron

Out of interest, why is it that the postal vote is dominated by Democrats? Is it purely because of Trump's attempts to discredit it in the lead up to the election?

jill_valentine

ToddDameron wrote: »

Out of interest, why is it that the postal vote is dominated by Democrats? Is it purely because of Trump's attempts to discredit it in the lead up to the election?

It's safer during the pandemic, but it also circumvents longstanding supression tactics like long queues etc that are not-uncoincidentally aimed at high Dem areas. I know people who have to take whole days off to vote in the States because it takes so long, if you're a young worker in precarious employment that's a huge ask. The stakes were so high in this election Dems were very motivated and until the DeJoy stuff emerged it seemed by far the safest way to get votes through.

L1011

ToddDameron wrote: »

Out of interest, why is it that the postal vote is dominated by Democrats? Is it purely because of Trump's attempts to discredit it in the lead up to the election?

Trump effectively ordered his base not to postal vote, so yes.

prawnsambo

ToddDameron wrote: »

Out of interest, why is it that the postal vote is dominated by Democrats? Is it purely because of Trump's attempts to discredit it in the lead up to the election?

It was rolled out as a covid-safe way of voting. Trump told his supporters to vote in person, but the Democrat message was to vote early and use mail-in ballots instead of in-person voting. Trump has basically tried to undermine the mail-in system from the start because (as has now transpired) he was going to undermine the system using the two-pronged attack of calling it a recipe for fraud and having his postmaster-general sabotage the postal system to kill it at birth.

listermint

L1011 wrote: »

Trump effectively ordered his base not to postal vote, so yes.

Except Florida, where it was deemed entirely and totally safe

Brian?

The news wind of Foxnews have fully turned on Trump now, not before time.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/whoa-fox-news-cuts-off-kayleigh-mcenany-for-votes-spiel?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I’m not checking in on the opinion wing, I assume they are still shouting “fraud”.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

The news wind of Foxnews have fully turned on Trump now, not before time.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/whoa-fox-news-cuts-off-kayleigh-mcenany-for-votes-spiel?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I’m not checking in on the opinion wing, I assume they are still shouting “fraud”.

The opinion wing are just a level above conspiracy theorists and are there to shore up the part of the republican base that can't understand big words, so yes they will be.

hirondelle

Brian? wrote: »

The news wind of Foxnews have fully turned on Trump now, not before time.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/10/whoa-fox-news-cuts-off-kayleigh-mcenany-for-votes-spiel?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


I’m not checking in on the opinion wing, I assume they are still shouting “fraud”.

It is great that they cut her off, but I'm wondering if they should have even carried an interview with her "in a personal capacity" at the RNC facility at all.

Needless to say, normal press secretaries don't normally do this sort of thing.

josip

Is the Georgian Senate election,

• 1 four-horse race for 2 seats or
• 2 two-horse races for a single seat in each?

If the former, then do the Dems need to exercise near-perfect vote management so that their candidates get a near equal number of votes?
Surely all the Republicans have to do in that case is to favour one of their 2 candidates and sacrifice the other and they'll still get one of the seats?

prawnsambo

josip wrote: »

Is the Georgian Senate election,

• 1 four-horse race for 2 seats or
• 2 two-horse races for a single seat?

If the former, then do the Dems need to exercise near-perfect vote management so that their candidates get a near equal number of votes?
Surely all the Republicans have to do in that case is to favour one of their 2 candidates and sacrifice the other and they'll still get one of the seats?

The former. It's a normal cycle race between Perdue and Ossof, but the other seat is a Special election (basically a by-election). So they are two separate races for two separate seats.

Brussels Sprout

Heard Nate Silver say on the 538 podcast that he could foresee a split result with Warnock & Perdue winning the two races. His reasoning was that Kelly Loeffler had run to the extreme right in her race and has been one of Trump's most vocal supporters. She also had a huge insider trading scandal at the beginning of the Covid period. All of those things combined might be enough to keep more moderate conservatives from voting from her whilst voting for Perdue in the other race. That of course would be enough to give the Republicans a 51-49 margin and control of the Senate.

everlast75

Just on the voter fraud, this gentleman is a long suffering fact checker and is incredible to see in action.

This was recent tweet from him setting out results of a check into the MAGA claims

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1326000431546458113?s=20