US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

pixelburp

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488

70% of surveyed republicans thought the election wasn't fair. Just in case folk thought this was simply Trump digging in his heels, the GOP voting public may yet determine the narrative here, evidence be damned. Feelings over facts is a popular mindset of the conservative block. This could make 2000 look positively refined - and at this point will absolutely get worse before it gets better.

Brian?

everlast75 wrote: »

IMHO I doubt this will happen.

These lost cases are not being appealed and so are being quickly dismissed if I've read up correctly.

This is placating the toddler-in-chief.

If any of these linger, I would expect Biden to petition SCOTUS who would take it up at a moment's notice.

I may be giving them too much credit. But i honestly believe the GOP governors will certify the election way before the deadline and move on.

Capt'n Midnight

OhHiMark wrote: »

You're forgetting that Trump isn't a Republican. Trump doesn't care about the party, or what happens in the future. His entire mindset at all times is "How can I improve my own situation here?".

The only asset he has is the "Trump" brand. So expect him to do what he thinks will keep him in the news.

Let's hope he doesn't know about the Ryanair school of publicity.

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/republicans-free-fair-elections-435488

70% of surveyed republicans thought the election wasn't fair. Just in case folk thought this was simply Trump digging in his heels, the GOP voting public may yet determine the narrative here, evidence be damned. Feelings over facts is a popular mindset of the conservative block. This could make 2000 look positively refined - and at this point will absolutely get worse before it gets better.

Any numbers on what that was like for dems in 2016?

I know the overall figures exploded in 2016 but can't find anything by party.

Again, all of this seems to be close to a repeat of what happened post 2016, aside from a president throwing a tantrum.

Manic Moran

demfad wrote: »

The Generals are obliged to take legal commands from POTUS or the Sec of Defense. All commands are legal until after Trump's last day as President.

If Trump succeeds in making the validity of the election a partisan issue, with support from the Senate and Attorney General and claims the election as illegitimate then it will be for the military to intervene or ask the opinion of the US Supreme Court...Doing nothing will see Trump remaining in power.

This is what would be dictators do. They control as much as the military as possible and then force the military to act or acquiesce.

That's why this move by Trump is so unnerving. Why else would he do it?

Not a bit of it. There are legal limitations on what the President can ask the military to do, and the military leadership has made it very clear it has no intention or authority of coming anywhere near the process for the election or the transfer of power. There are plenty enough other agencies in the Federal government with both authority and capability to see the new administration take over.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1326225961738772491

Really doubling down on this.

Harry Palmr

Through the keyhole they are.

pixelburp

They really are aiming for a putsch at this stage, right? So frustrating that this forum was intermittently filled with 4 years of Bad Faith types, or Smartest Guys in the Room fake-centrists arguing how Trump was just another president. Trump Derangement Syndrome of course the snappy put down for those sidestepping actual rigorous looks at the Trump admin. Yet here we are, in the white heat-death and the admin is actively trying to steal the election result. It's sedition by the courts, they're traitors to democracy.

Harry Palmr

Can Trump be taken to court for refusing to stop being president?!

Brussels Sprout

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can Trump be taken to court for refusing to stop being president?!

Nah sure he's President anyway until later January. After that then he's out the door regardless of whether he accepts it or not.

looksee

Were the 70% of Republicans asked what, specifically, was not fair about the elections? They had the incumbent, which gave them a head start, and a President prepared to defy covid and anything else that stood in his way, so what was 'not fair'?

demfad

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not a bit of it. There are legal limitations on what the President can ask the military to do, and the military leadership has made it very clear it has no intention or authority of coming anywhere near the process for the election or the transfer of power. There are plenty enough other agencies in the Federal government with both authority and capability to see the new administration take over.

I'd be interested in hearing who controls these agencies, whether they are loyal to trump and whether Trump cannot fire and install loyalists in the time available as he has just demonstrated with the Secretary of Defense.
Laws etc, are worth little without the will to enforce them.

Lumen

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not a bit of it. There are legal limitations on what the President can ask the military to do, and the military leadership has made it very clear it has no intention or authority of coming anywhere near the process for the election or the transfer of power. There are plenty enough other agencies in the Federal government with both authority and capability to see the new administration take over.

Regarding the election yes, but there is no legal or military limitation preventing him from launching a pre-emptive nuclear strike on another country at any time in the next 70 days, 9 hours, and 41 minutes.

everlast75

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1326225961738772491

Really doubling down on this.

That administration is full of the worst of the worst.

Kalyke

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I wonder why this tweet was deleted

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1326186765879832576

Logan act maybe?

I THINK..He sent the message before the conversation took place??

BluePlanet

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1326225961738772491

Really doubling down on this.

If you watch the video (it's kind of long), when he said that it seemed like he mis-spoke.
The next thing he was saying was that the transition would be managed so that the State Dept can fulfill it's mandate.
He said he was on the other side of the transition before.

rossie1977

everlast75 wrote: »

That administration is full of the worst of the worst.

It's the party of Nixon, Agnew, Don Regan, Gingrich, Stone, Cheney, McConnell with the likes of Limbaugh, Jones, Hannity, O'Reilly, Ailes continually egging them on.

Republicans only care about one thing and that's absolute power.

Headshot

I like that smirk from Biden when mentioning Pompeo

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1326198168091054080

This sums up all of the arguments about not calling it or asking for recounts. Worth a listen, at least to hear him stumble over his words.

AMKC

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1326225961738772491

Really doubling down on this.

Lol some one is going to have to be dragged or carried out of the White House if that's what they think lol. If that happens then he should lose his secret security too.

Brussels Sprout

This doesn't bode well for Biden's chances of winning N.C.

https://twitter.com/kendallkarson/status/1326257115451838467

Irish Praetorian

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not a bit of it. There are legal limitations on what the President can ask the military to do, and the military leadership has made it very clear it has no intention or authority of coming anywhere near the process for the election or the transfer of power. There are plenty enough other agencies in the Federal government with both authority and capability to see the new administration take over.

Tangental to this; in your experience as (iirc) an army officer, what proportion of the rank and file would support Trump or perhaps Trumpism more generally? Does it contrast much with the attitudes of the officer corps for that matter? My recollection on the matter is vague but I have memories of one navy officer telling me the armed forces in the US drew most of their manpower from either the inner cities or the rural areas with a tradition of service, does that still hold true? And I guess beneath all of this is the question, when push comes to shand, how many would cross the Rubicon with Trump or someone like him?

L1011

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

This doesn't bode well for Biden's chances of winning N.C.

I don't think anyone really thought there were any chances

everlast75

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1326198168091054080

This sums up all of the arguments about not calling it or asking for recounts. Worth a listen, at least to hear him stumble over his words.

Cal Thomas was on Today FM, same bluster without substance.

It's like arguing with flat-earthers.

froog

i wonder do republicans actually understand what would happen if trump somehow managed to steal the election. an actual civil war with no end in sight and international sanctions that would send them back to the stone age. it would be the end of the USA.

440Hertz

What they're doing is incredibly dangerous. Even though it probably will not succeed, it's sowing the seeds of a conspiracy theory that could destabilise the US for years.

Democracy depends upon having a democratic culture. They're basically dismantling a large aspect of that and what would replace it would be a period of total chaos and it could quite literally mean the end of the United States.

Americans have walked on eggshells around these conspiracy theorists and loons for far too long, failing to call them out or challenge them and this is where it winds up.

Effectively you've a president and political party in the White House that looks like it no longer recognises the legitimacy of the American democratic process.

Foxtrol

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The problem is, the longer this goes on it increases the chances of Trump and his allies pulling effectively a coup.


Here's what needs to happen for Biden to be confirmed President.

1. Counts need to finish
2. State level results get certified by the respective Governors/Secretaries of State
3. State send forward Electors
4. Electoral College Votes
5. Biden gets 270+ votes
6. He's President

There are 2 key dates.

States need to certify their results before December 8th (Safe Harbour)
Electors meet on December 14th to actually cast their votes

It is becoming increasingly clear that the Trump plan here is to flood key States with a torrent of spurious court cases to delay/prevent the results being certified by the required date.

He then hopes to get the various States to do one of the following

Do not send any Electors forward as they cannot certify the results - He'd be looking at places like Arizona and Georgia for that , with GOP Governors and SoS

Send forward competing Slates of Electors - He'd be looking at Pennsylvania for that - Dem Governor , but GOP State Legislature. The likelihood is that with two sets of electors competing , both would excluded.

The End game is that no ones gets to 270 thereby forcing a "Contingent Election"

In the event of a Contingent Election , the Senate elects the VP and the House Elects the President , but in the House it's a State by State vote not a simply majority.

As it stands right now , the GOP lead the State by State count in the house 26-24 , so they'd elect Trump and the Senate would elect Pence.

This is their plan.

Now - The Sh!t-storm this would kick off would be of catastrophic proportions and they might not get away with it.

The GOP leader of the PA House has already come out and said that they would not get involved in the Electoral College process , but let's see if they withstand the pressure they are going to come under.

It is not a coincidence that Trump just fired Esper as Sec. Of Defence either.

Esper refused to allow Trump to use the Military on the streets during the BLM protests etc.

He has now been replaced by a door-mat who will do whatever he's told including sending the Military out to suppress protests if they actually try to do this.

The potential for truly terrifying times in the US is very real right now.

Did some more reading on this and it looks like the above skips at least one step/safeguard. What I've come to is that unless the House Democrats decide to go along with the above plan then the bold simply cannot happen.

When there is a dispute over a state's electoral votes, unless the House and Senate both agree on the resolution then counting stops. Then all the dems have to do is run out time until President Pelosi takes charge.

degsie

Meanwhile, America becomes even more divided. Entertaining stuff!

Water John

Thomas Friedman had a great line on this about Pompeo and others; 'you know you're out of power when your limousine is yellow and the driver speaks Farsi'.

StringerBell

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

This doesn't bode well for Biden's chances of winning N.C.

https://twitter.com/kendallkarson/status/1326257115451838467

Tactical concession, words chosen well I think.