4 dead and several injured after terrorist incident in Vienna, Austria

thecomedian

Akrasia wrote: »

No I didn't, and no muslims have murdered any Irish citizens. It was french and Austrian citizens who were murdered, and a bunch of Irish people are using the 'our' and 'we' pronouns to make a distinction between 'them' and 'us'


And I don't think we have 'no reason to complain' about murder victims. We should absolutely complain very harshly to the people who murdered them, and if anyone is crass enough to try to defend those murders, then those people should be investigated for any possible connection they have to the gangs (cells) who committed these crimes.

What happened to your we the West argument lol

Akrasia

Snake Plisken wrote: »

The usual bull**** from you liberal lefties blaming the catholic church we are in the here and now not in the past and the threat is islam! Cop yourself on and show some respect to the victims of tonight's attacks!

The catholic church is covering up abuse of children right now not in the past, it's still doing it, today.

My point is that you are not responsible for the crimes of the church even though you are most likely from a catholic background if you are irish. And even if you are a devout catholic, you are still not responsible for the crimes of those scumbags who raped children or failed to speak out against known rapists.

You are not responsible for the crimes of other irish catholics, just like the vast majority of muslims are not responsible for the crimes of these terrorists.

and we all have relatives who may have held overly conservative views in the past. It doesn't mean we share those views, nor does it mean that those relatives are guilty of the crimes carried out by rapists and abusers.

My point is, that you cannot tar a whole population with the crimes of it's worst members, because if you do, then you need to consider yourself guilty of the crimes of the worst people in Irish society, and we have nothing to be proud of there.

Akrasia

thecomedian wrote: »

What happened to your we the West argument lol

You should go back and read it again. I think you might not have followed it entirely

Akrasia

thecomedian wrote: »

Are you one of them radicals? Do you believe in murdering innocents?

Of course not, why would you think that?

Europeans have the right to pick and choose who we allow into Europe. If this carry on continues more right leaning politicians will be elected and eventually migration from Islamic countries will cease.

Debating migration policies has nothing to do with race. I see also no issue with stopping people with the religious shackles of Islam from coming in. Why import problems needlessly? We can pick and choose people with more aligned beliefs.

Nor should anyone have to apologise for that stance. Its a common sense approach. Incumbent citizens safety comes first. Refugees and migrants should be returned to where they came from. An Islamic country would be a more appropriate destination for them anyway.

Australia got slated for their 'return the boats' policy but it worked and stopped the flow. Europe has even more reason now to take a similar hardline approach.

Rubberchikken

It may be that not is a radical or terrorist but until those that are committing these atrocities stop, until the imams that are preaching hatred if the west stop, then I for one will insist that those that commit these crimes are hunted down. That those that encourage these crimes are hunted down.

Akrasia

BloodBath wrote: »

We fought for centuries to be remove that kind of radical oppression and backward thinking in Europe.

The church has lost most of it's power here as a result.

Now we're inviting an even more backwards oppressive ideology back in and being told to respect it. We didn't respect our own one. Why should we respect theirs?

I have relatives buried in unmarked graves on the edge of catholic graveyards because the parish priest refused to bury an un baptised infant on consecrated soil.
We are not very far away at all from the backwards oppressive catholic society you are attributing to our ancient past. In one generation we have embraced secularism. To claim that muslim immigrants are unable to escape the shackles of religious indoctrination just like so many Irish catholics did over the past 40 years is to underestimate these people.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

If thousands of refugee children grow up and die in refugee camps inside Europe because we as wealthy Europeans are too afraid of terrorism to help them, is that worth it to prevent a few terrorist incidents where some innocent europeans are murdered?

Europe gives plenty of money for those people to be looked after. But apparently to feel safe they must cross the Mediterranean.

Akrasia wrote: »

No I didn't, and no muslims have murdered any Irish citizens.

Yeah it was just a Japanese lad got sliced up in Dundalk sure. And a Brazilian who had her head cut off in Nice.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

To claim that muslim immigrants are unable to escape the shackles of religious indoctrination just like so many Irish catholics did over the past 40 years is to underestimate these people.

Let them do it where they are first then let them in.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

I have relatives buried in unmarked graves on the edge of catholic graveyards because the parish priest refused to bury an un baptised infant on consecrated soil.
We are not very far away at all from the backwards oppressive catholic society you are attributing to our ancient past. In one generation we have embraced secularism. To claim that muslim immigrants are unable to escape the shackles of religious indoctrination just like so many Irish catholics did over the past 40 years is to underestimate these people.

Grand when they kick off the shackles, and are democratic open societies we can allow people in, no problem with that. The reality is, however, that the Islamic world has taken many retrograde steps in recent years.

My own father was basically a refugee. He left his home because of persecution and travelled all the way across a continent passing through a bunch of countries he didn't speak the language of and settled in a country he had no connection to, didn't speak the language and had a completely different culture.
Actually no, he crossed the border as soon as he could and settled a few miles over the border in a country with a similar culture and the same language. Funny that.

coinop

Appeasement and making concessions to the Islamic community doesn't work. Mass deportations is the only solution. Thankfully there are small groups in Ireland organising against the scourge.

https://nationalparty.ie/join/

Snake Plisken

Akrasia wrote: »

I have relatives buried in unmarked graves on the edge of catholic graveyards because the parish priest refused to bury an un baptised infant on consecrated soil.
We are not very far away at all from the backwards oppressive catholic society you are attributing to our ancient past. In one generation we have embraced secularism. To claim that muslim immigrants are unable to escape the shackles of religious indoctrination just like so many Irish catholics did over the past 40 years is to underestimate these people.

You lost this argument so stop trying to move the blame onto Europeans for the bloodshed your Muslim brothers have brought to Europe

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote: »

Europe gives plenty of money for those people to be looked after. But apparently to feel safe they must cross the Mediterranean.

Yeah it was just a Japanese lad got sliced up in Dundalk sure. And a Brazilian who had her head cut off in Nice.

Their lives are not worth less than lives of asylum seekers in refugee camps, children, mothers, fathers

Humans, not subhumans

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Their lives are not worth less than lives of asylum seekers in refugee camps, children, mothers, fathers

Humans, not subhumans

Well the people who got ferried into Europe certainly seemed to think they were.

coinop

coinop wrote: »

Appeasement and making concessions to the Islamic community doesn't work. Mass deportations is the only solution. Thankfully there are small groups in Ireland organising against the scourge.

https://nationalparty.ie/join/

You're as subtle as a wrecking ball. You know what you can do with your recruitment drive.

Strumms

Rubberchikken wrote: »

It may be that not is a radical or terrorist but until those that are committing these atrocities stop, until the imams that are preaching hatred if the west stop, then I for one will insist that those that commit these crimes are hunted down. That those that encourage these crimes are hunted down.

Deleted User wrote: »

Europeans have the right to pick and choose who we allow into Europe. If this carry on continues more right leaning politicians will be elected and eventually migration from Islamic countries will cease.

Debating migration policies has nothing to do with race. I see also no issue with stopping people with the religious shackles of Islam from coming in. Why import problems needlessly? We can pick and choose people with more aligned beliefs.

Nor should anyone have to apologise for that stance. Its a common sense approach. Incumbent citizens safety comes first. Refugees and migrants should be returned to where they came from. An Islamic country would be a more appropriate destination for them anyway.

Australia got slated for their 'return the boats' policy but it worked and stopped the flow. Europe has even more reason now to take a similar hardline approach.

We simply should not allow entry to those whose beliefs, values and views are not in keeping with the beliefs, values and views of this country.

With what’s been happening in Nice, Manchester, London, Paris... are we next ? Why couldn’t we be next ? None of these four locations are backwards backwater, insular places, they are open, cosmopolitan and free... same as Austria that’s been added to the list.


https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/security/20180703STO07127/terrorism-in-the-eu-since-2015

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Their lives are not worth less than lives of asylum seekers in refugee camps, children, mothers, fathers

Humans, not subhumans

....and European lives arent worth less though Islam does have a type of class system where 'unbelievers' are lower. There are solutions for the refugees elsewhere. They do not have to come to Europe at all. There is no necessity there.

Justin Credible Darts

everytime some islamic terrorist scumbag shoots, or beheads or kills an innocent person, there is someone quick to mention anything else in the hope of using deflection tactics.

The catholics did this
or the ira did this
Trump did this
poland has this policy
etc
etc
its like the liberal lefties who love these nutjob muslims who also treat women like dirt are looking to deflect to try change the subject,
no one is buying it

James Brown

Gervais08 wrote: »

Will do f*** all good - kicking the menace out and stopping pandering to a murderous mediaeval cult should be job one.

I dunno they run a good bingo. Sure we still have the Angelus.

James Brown

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

everytime some islamic terrorist scumbag shoots, or beheads or kills an innocent person, there is someone quick to mention anything else in the hope of using deflection tactics.

The catholics did this
or the ira did this
Trump did this
poland has this policy
etc
etc
its like the liberal lefties who love these nutjob muslims who also treat women like dirt are looking to deflect to try change the subject,
no one is buying it

The issue is hypocrisy boss. Its pointing out calling all Muslims bad for the actions of a few cultist right wingers while we'd successive governments covered for rapes and selling babies.
Not right to generalise about Muslims if you're unwilling to be fair and treat others the same. Not that I agree, but be consistent at least.
Not seen anyone support or back ISIS.

Justin Credible Darts

what has this government of Ireland got to do with muslim nutters murdering innocent people all over Europe for years ?

Why do you and your ilk feel you have to bring things that have zero relevance to this thread about terrorist in Austria,
Do you think mentioning the Irish government somehow negates what happened, or mean people must just accept what happened ?

I have never seen a thread on this forum where people have condemned quarkers
Dont see no threads about the terror and atrocities committed by Amish
Dont recall reading about nutjob buddhists decapitating people in some european city
Can you point me to a thread where hoardes of atheists have opened fire on innocent people.

why is it always the Muslims ?
and then you have brain damaged people who think we should negotiate with these people, who would rather slaughter you and your family.

Look at the thread about Nice in France, there was people on there trying to blame atheists, video games, the ira, stalin, ww2, etc.....in fact blaming anything than accepting the truth.

igCorcaigh

Bowie wrote: »

The issue is hypocrisy boss. Its pointing out calling all Muslims bad for the actions of a few cultist right wingers while we'd successive governments covered for rapes and selling babies.
Not right to generalise about Muslims if you're unwilling to be fair and treat others the same. Not that I agree, but be consistent at least.
Not seen anyone support or back ISIS.

Im trying to find a balanced viewpoint about all this. But questioning the extreme views on here makes me an appeaser.

How can we prevent this situation from getting worse? Simple question, complex answer.

Some seem to prefer another Hitler.

Granadino

Let’s remember it’s a certain strand/sect of Islam that is non compatible with the 21st century. Has it been confirmed that these were ?

Rubberchikken

According to sky a gunman has been shot dead.
I'm not a violent person but I do prefer the way foreign police deal with these yobs. The Irish and uk police would probably attempt to reason with them.

igCorcaigh

Granadino wrote: »

Let’s remember it’s a certain strand/sect of Islam that is non compatible with the 21st century. Has it been confirmed that these were ?

I'm curious too if the terrorists in Europe are Sunni, as the extremists tend to be, or Shia.

creeper1

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You see it's not that easy.

By the time THAT happens it'll be too late, there will be to many of them here. You can't just revoke people's citizenship either, you can't pull their kids out of school and send them "home" at that point. Its just too late.

Poland, don't let them in in the first place is the only way to deal with them.

This is exactly what people need to realise. For Western Europe it’s over. Macron May say things like “we will never surrender our values “ but in reality nobody is really going to make fun of their prophet again while movies such as “life of Brian “ or whatever comedy ridiculing Christianity will be a ok.

All Europeans, not just poles, must defend Eastern Europe from the fascist eu’s diversification agenda.This is where we and our descendants will go to find asylum.

creeper1

creeper1 wrote: »

This is exactly what people need to realise. For Western Europe it’s over. Macron May say things like “we will never surrender our values “ but in reality nobody is really going to make fun of their prophet again while movies such as “life of Brian “ or whatever comedy ridiculing Christianity will be a ok.

That really depends on how this matter is dealt with. It's too early to tell if that's the case. People said similar things the first time, Muslims kicked off about cartoons in the Netherlands.

All Europeans, not just poles, must defend Eastern Europe from the fascist eu’s diversification agenda.This is where we and our descendants will go to find asylum.

The EU, like any organisation with too much power, will grow, and change over time. Environmental changes such as terrorism, will shape how it develops. The EU tried hard to become the cultural leader of Europe, and it's failed utterly, generating a wave of resentment throughout the continent. It's power is not absolute, and we'll see a range of 'statespeople' come into the EU who reflect a different vision over time. In the scheme of things, the EU is still a very young organisation, and it will mature into something far different than it is today.

And if Europeans ever need asylum, it'll be Asia where they go, since it's far more stable in terms of politics, and economy. (once the China question is settled)

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

Each immigrant to Europe is not 'en masse' they're a human being who as got their own story for how they had to abandon everything and seek asylum in Europe.

You really need to get your terminology straight. Asylum seeker is not the same as refugee, and refugees are, generally, not the same as economic migrants.

You want to bring it down to an individual level because at that detail, it's impossible to maintain a broad view of the situation. When we are talking about mass migration, (which it is), we have to deal with groups, or large concentrations. To do otherwise is counterproductive. Which is the point, I guess.

They are not a 'muslim' they are a human. And while there are thugs and criminals and depraved people everywhere, including plenty amongst irish society, of all levels, those people are always in the minority. For every boat load of refugees you turn back, you are dooming dozens of decent people because of you own fear and weakness

It's obvious that you haven't looked at the immigration statistics for Europe. In terms of refugees and asylum seekers, the two largest concentrations of migrants are young single males, and unaccompanied minors, ranging from kids, to teenagers. Again, mostly male.

As for dooming others, actually, no.. we're not. There are many stable economies, and societies throughout the M.East, Asia, and Africa, that these people can turn to, should they be blocked entry into Europe. We're simply blocking them from access to the easiest destination, in terms of social welfare, and governmental supports for migrants.

Europeans have the right to protect themselves. If that means turning away the majority of refugees, or migrants, then they should be free to do so. At least, until we have an effective system in place, to integrate and monitor the needs/capabilities of these arrivals. Which we currently, don't even come close to doing effectively.

The problem with your attitude is not that it's self-sacrificing, but that you're quick to sacrifice everyone else to meet your needs to be generous to others. Irrespective of the costs that migrants entail, the losses to domestic populations (economically, socially, or criminally) etc.

Gervais08

Akrasia wrote: »

No I didn't, and no muslims have murdered any Irish citizens. It was french and Austrian citizens who were murdered, and a bunch of Irish people are using the 'our' and 'we' pronouns to make a distinction between 'them' and 'us'


And I don't think we have 'no reason to complain' about murder victims. We should absolutely complain very harshly to the people who murdered them, and if anyone is crass enough to try to defend those murders, then those people should be investigated for any possible connection they have to the gangs (cells) who committed these crimes.

Tunisia for a start - ffs do some basic research before siding with these monsters.