4 dead and several injured after terrorist incident in Vienna, Austria

screamer

There’s no rage, there’s discussion. As for logic, speak for yourself....

AlphaDelta1

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok. logic isn't a strong point here. haha.. ok. I'll come back when all the rage has evaporated.

Haven't spotted much rage tbh given the gravity of what these savages are doing to us (yes us as i'm very much a European). If anything we are far too hands off with Islamists in general. It's very much a weak point of our democracy that they have focused on.

bear1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok. logic isn't a strong point here. haha.. ok. I'll come back when all the rage has evaporated.

If this is to me, I was simply debating with you.

DelaneyIn

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not hard to see how the Nazi regime rose to power or how the Serbian genocide was allowed to happen.

This thread can now be summed up in one sentence;

"Some of them hate us because of religion, they are barbarians. I now hate all of those that practice that religion and advocate action against them, I am civilised."

Remind me again, which group is running around head hacking and machine gunning down innocents?

john123470

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

This thread can now be summed up in one sentence;

"Some of them hate us because of religion, they are barbarians. I now hate all of those that practice that religion and advocate action against them, I am civilised."

Ah here ..

There are also those of us who ask for the so called majority ? of 'decent' muslims to hit the streets and protest.

Show some Outrage about an old lady having her head hacked off (by one of those invited to stay in her country) for daring to breathe.

Let me see this Outrage

Go on the streets. Now. Say .. This savagery in no way shape or form represents what I and my family / friends stand for. Not just some tv soundbite and a shake of the head from some imam who got collared for an explain. Show me !

Until that happens, this cult will continue to wreak havoc. If they dont want all be tarred with the same brush - let me hear you say it ..

Come out of the mosques onto the streets

MoonUnit75

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not hard to see how the Nazi regime rose to power or how the Serbian genocide was allowed to happen.

This thread can now be summed up in one sentence;

"Some of them hate us because of religion, they are barbarians. I now hate all of those that practice that religion and advocate action against them, I am civilised."

Or, you could put the thinking about this in another way:
"Unfiltered immigration and 'diversity' are better values than preventing citizens being decapitated, shot or blown up. Besides, it's not like immigrants can afford to live in this neighbourhood and they aren't likely to be going to the local gaelscoil either. Immigration is great, just look at the choice of foodstalls at Electric Picnic these last few years."

john123470

john123470 wrote: »

Ah here ..

There are also those of us who ask for the so called majority ? of 'decent' muslims to hit the streets and protest.

I'm not sure why you think that Muslims need to come out to say anything about these crimes?
Why do you believe it is their responsibility to do anything?
Is it out responsibility as Catholics to condemn terrible actions by other catholics?
No, it is not.

If course, the fact that you write 'decent' Muslims is probably all we need to know about your attitude.

Gervais08

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think that Muslims need to come out to say anything about these crimes?
Why do you believe it is their responsibility to do anything?
Is it out responsibility as Catholics to condemn terrible actions by other catholics?
No, it is not.

If course, the fact that you write 'decent' Muslims is probably all we need to know about your attitude.

You think all Muslims are good ? Even this monster ?

Delusional posting style at best.

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not hard to see how the Nazi regime rose to power or how the Serbian genocide was allowed to happen.

This thread can now be summed up in one sentence;

"Some of them hate us because of religion, they are barbarians. I now hate all of those that practice that religion and advocate action against them, I am civilised."

The problem is, identifying the good from the bad. The .03% who would do us harm don’t walk around with a T-shirt claiming ‘ok, we are going to blow you up’. They live normal enough lives as businesses owners, working in shops, students... once they get the order there is no circuit breaker to stop it happening.

Gervais08

Strumms wrote: »

The problem is, identifying the good from the bad. The .03% who would do us harm don’t walk around with a T-shirt claiming ‘ok, we are going to blow you up’. They live normal enough lives as businesses owners, working in shops, students... once they get the order there is no circuit breaker to stop it happening.

Exactly - the “Skittles” analogy was laughed at but how do you know which of the lads on the boat will be next to you in Tesco and which will be beheading you on YouTube? You don’t - keep them all out, they’re stuck in the 1500s and not fit to live with civilised people.

Wibbs

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

"Some of them hate us because of religion, they are barbarians. I now hate all of those that practice that religion and advocate action against them, I am civilised."

Which is precisely what radical Islam says. You don't fight that with hugs unfortunately.

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think that Muslims need to come out to say anything about these crimes?
Why do you believe it is their responsibility to do anything?
Is it out responsibility as Catholics to condemn terrible actions by other catholics?
No, it is not.

Actually it is, or should be. This is one of the major problems with current European/Western culture; avoid responsibility, both person and communal at all costs, save for those demographics who have been deemed "worthy" of being responsible of course. Straight(mostly White) men for example. Remember the real Men(tm) don't let other men rape, that Men(tm) are responsible for "rape culture" and all that nonsense. That's OK, but those seen as protected groups, not so much, or more when it suits.

If adherents to any politic or faith or both have numbers among them that go against the mainstream in murderous intent and action, damn right you condemn it. Or you are tacitly condoning it. During the Troubles here people marched for peace from both sides of the conflict, hell there were calls for the Vatican to excommunicate IRA members.

imak wrote: »

I must put my view as a Muslim, i am not offend by Muhammad(pbuh) cartoon, because there is no law in Islam if some one create Muhammad cartoon should be killed. those who did it i strongly condemn it,and i am sorry those who killed. i am sick, afraid, feel pity and getting stressed out because of all this. i don't support Isis . i do believe isis was created for political reason not by Muslim. but Muslim being used . i do believe freedom of speech. but freedom of speech should not be used to joke other people with out reason. but again Islam do not teach kill people , Islam do not teach kill people because Muhammad cartoon, and i can guarantee you mostly Muslim are agree with me.

I'd largely agree with you Imak. Any Muslim guys I know when things like this have happened before have condemned it, privately at least. Though are quick to blame outside sources too and they seem to be afraid to condemn these things publicly. There is some support within the community for such crimes and that support is quite aggressive.

Donald Trump

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

Problem is there is a significant minority that don't see things your own way.

One of the cornerstones of freedom of speech is the right to ridicule any and ALL religions. Muslims should respect that right as i 100% respect their right to do as they please in their homelands.

Freedom of speech is misunderstood. It is often stated in the sense of the US concept and it is even largely misunderstood there (in the constitutional sense). It means that the state cannot curb your freedom to say things. It does not absolve you or protect you from the repercussions of saying those things.


I can come on here and say that the next poster immediately below is a paedophile. The state cannot stop me from saying that but it does not mean that there are no possible consequences to myself for saying it.


If you are walking down the road with your partner (assume you are a male) and I walk up to you and I calmly explain to you, that in my opinion, your missus is a fat ugly cunt, I expect that to provoke a reaction. The state cannot stop me from saying it. However it does not mean that I could claim surprise when you swing a punch at me!

Strumms

Gervais08 wrote: »

Exactly - the “Skittles” analogy was laughed at but how do you know which of the lads on the boat will be next to you in Tesco and which will be beheading you on YouTube? You don’t - keep them all out, they’re stuck in the 1500s and not fit to live with civilised people.

My politics have always been left of center, but where immigration is concerned it’s not.

I want to see...

Quotas - xx numbers a year only allowed to enter and apply to stay.

Background checks - we contact the police in Afganistan, check does Mr Xx have any convictions or active criminal investigations against him / her. If there even is a conviction for robbing a jar of Nutella it’s NO, good luck.

If the police from XX country cannot provide the information, tough, it’s back on the first plane outta here.

People who are verifiable, good, decent, non criminal / non terrorist... with zero links to any organization who would do us and the country harm are welcome with limits, otherwise, no entry.

10000maniacs

Pretzill wrote: »

Regardless of religion or extreme views, the people who perpetrate this level of violence against their fellow citizens shouldn't be used to raise the awareness of their own religion - no matter what diverse section of that religion it is or isn't - they should be held-up as terrorists, and opposers to free expression. All of Europe should have satirical cartoons made into flags and flown high - (I don't care who they are taking the piss out of, or who they may offend) If we lose our right to freedom of expression in a free world, these fcukers win.

The problem here is every newspaper and news outlet in Europe and the UK are afraid to publish the cartoons.
Sky News and the BBC were asked a few years ago why didn't they show the front page of Charlie Hebdo, and they said they were afraid for their staff.
So it worked. Now onto the next win for them. They will concentrate on removing pork from restaurant menus and having female only carriages on trains.
Baby steps.

myfreespirit

imak wrote: »

I must put my view as a Muslim, i am not offend by Muhammad(pbuh) cartoon, because there is no law in Islam if some one create Muhammad cartoon should be killed. those who did it i strongly condemn it,and i am sorry those who killed. i am sick, afraid, feel pity and getting stressed out because of all this. i don't support Isis . i do believe isis was created for political reason not by Muslim. but Muslim being used . i do believe freedom of speech. but freedom of speech should not be used to joke other people with out reason. but again Islam do not teach kill people , Islam do not teach kill people because Muhammad cartoon, and i can guarantee you mostly Muslim are agree with me.

With the utmost respect, the assertion that Islam does not teach to kill people, what is one to make of this from Sura 9:

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them"

I freely acknowledge that the great majority of Muslims are decent people, who reject the killing of other people.
However, the Quran does contain this problematic text, and it clearly influences some Muslims to do what it urges.

Gradius

I think a lot of people fall back on the whole idea of secularism as a means to keep some sort of moral high ground.

"I don't like any religion but..."

A spade is a spade, if one group of people are the source of beheadings and murders, you shouldn't be trying to maintain some moral superiority. It's an inherent weakness.

If one specific group wants to murder another specific group, then it's fair game. Cut the bs, get to the point, and forget the morality.

Mr. Karate

upandcumming wrote: »

Convicted of attempting to travel to Syria to join ISIS - doesn't appear he managed to get there, so he had it delivered.

We need to start sending scumbags like this off to their Allah already.

Gradius

Strumms wrote: »

My politics have always been left of center, but where immigration is concerned it’s not.

I want to see...

Quotas - xx numbers a year only allowed to enter and apply to stay.

Background checks - we contact the police in Afganistan, check does Mr Xx have any convictions or active criminal investigations against him / her. If there even is a conviction for robbing a jar of Nutella it’s NO, good luck.

If the police from XX country cannot provide the information, tough, it’s back on the first plane outta here.

People who are verifiable, good, decent, non criminal / non terrorist... with zero links to any organization who would do us and the country harm are welcome with limits, otherwise, no entry.

I don't agree at all.

There is ZERO obligation to house and feed anyone from all corners of the globe.

Starting from the point that you simply must have quota's is a losing proposition.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

You think all Muslims are good ? Even this monster ?

Delusional posting style at best.

What?
How ridiculous!
I don't think all Muslims are good, I don't think all Muslims are bad.
Pretty much in the same way that I think about all people

saabsaab

spook_cook wrote: »

Pretty sure Collective punishment is a crime.

No, I don't think so as it is often used in Schools i.e. class held back until guilty party owns up or is forced to.


Anyway no need to see it as 'punishment' rather a rehoming to a more suited environment.

tdf7187

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not hard to see how the Nazi regime rose to power or how the Serbian genocide was allowed to happen.

This thread can now be summed up in one sentence;

"Some of them hate us because of religion, they are barbarians. I now hate all of those that practice that religion and advocate action against them, I am civilised."

You are mistaken. Jewish terrorists were not going around Europe in the 1930s committing atrocities. Islamist terrorism is a real issue.

MoonUnit75

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think that Muslims need to come out to say anything about these crimes?
Why do you believe it is their responsibility to do anything?
Is it out responsibility as Catholics to condemn terrible actions by other catholics?
No, it is not.

If course, the fact that you write 'decent' Muslims is probably all we need to know about your attitude.

It's very different though. If Catholic priests in some sect were telling their parish to kill the infidel then we would expect the Pope or the bishops to excommunicate these priests and remove this sect from the church. Likewise, Catholics are not out there killing people in the name of Catholicism. If they were, Catholics would indeed be obliged to say this is an abomination and anyone who sympathises with them should be ejected from the church.

When these guys kill, they do so explicitly for the cause of islam. There should be a strong, unambiguous call to have people who believe in this cause or condone these actions to be ejected from Islamic communities.

When you think about it, even sportspeople are routinely disciplined or removed from sporting organisations for 'bringing the name of the sport into disrepute' just for doing stupid or illegal stuff that normal people do. Where is the call for these martyrs or sympathisers to be cast out of islamic communities for bringing the religion into disrepute?

saabsaab

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

It's very different though. If Catholic priests in some sect were telling their parish to kill the infidel then we would expect the Pope or the bishops to excommunicate these priests and remove this sect from the church. Likewise, Catholics are not out there killing people in the name of Catholicism. If they were, Catholics would indeed be obliged to say this is an abomination and anyone who sympathises with them should be ejected from the church.

When these guys kill, they do so explicitly for the cause of islam. There should be a strong, unambiguous call to have people who believe in this cause or condone these actions to be ejected from Islamic communities.

When you think about it, even sportspeople are routinely disciplined or removed from sporting organisations for 'bringing the name of the sport into disrepute' just for doing stupid or illegal stuff that normal people do. Where is the call for these martyrs or sympathisers to be cast out of islamic communities for bringing the religion into disrepute?

Beat me to it, well said.

biko

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't think all Muslims are good, I don't think all Muslims are bad.

Mohammed is probably one of the worst human beings to have walked this earth.
Warlord, racist, rapist, maniac, senseless killer.

Bad Muslims are bad because of Islam.
Good Muslims are good in spite of Islam.

TomTomTim

Gradius wrote: »

I don't agree at all.

There is ZERO obligation to house and feed anyone from all corners of the globe.

Starting from the point that you simply must have quota's is a losing proposition.

The big issue I have is we give a fortune to countries in aid money, and then we're expected to also house the world. I'd quite frankly rather do neither, but the fact that we're doing both is beyond absurd.

biko

On topic

A 20-year-old Islamic extremist armed with an automatic rifle and a fake explosive vest rampaged through a Vienna nightlife district hours ahead of a coronavirus lockdown, fatally shooting four people before he was killed by police, Austrian authorities said Tuesday.

The suspect in Monday night’s attack was identified as a young Austrian-North Macedonian dual citizen with a previous terror conviction for attempting to join the Islamic State extremist group in Syria.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-islamic-state-group-austria-shootings-vienna-53282a7da4f3a1903358b4b16d8a17a6

If they had shredded the passport back then they would have saved lives.

john123470

TomTomTim wrote: »

The big issue I have is we give a fortune to countries in aid money, and then we're expected to also house the world. I'd quite frankly rather do neither, but the fact that we're doing both is beyond absurd.

Not only that but when you do house them, they want you to play by Their house rules - ie the mob mentality cult they follow blindly ..

Meanwhile, the war rages on ...

Watch your back !

Granadino

10000maniacs wrote: »

The problem here is every newspaper and news outlet in Europe and the UK are afraid to publish the cartoons.
Sky News and the BBC were asked a few years ago why didn't they show the front page of Charlie Hebdo, and they said they were afraid for their staff.
So it worked. Now onto the next win for them. They will concentrate on removing pork from restaurant menus and having female only carriages on trains.
Baby steps.

Would you be one to give out about people wearing hijabs, or if a muslim kid asked if they could not have pork for their school dinner?

myfreespirit

Granadino wrote: »

Would you be one to give out about people wearing hijabs, or if a muslim kid asked if they could not have pork for their school dinner?

The wearing of overtly religious symbols is IMHO sectarian in nature and really should not be encouraged.
Muslim religious sensibilities must take second place to western norms and practices.

10000maniacs

Granadino wrote: »

Would you be one to give out about people wearing hijabs, or if a muslim kid asked if they could not have pork for their school dinner?

That is not what I am saying. If they want to wear hijabs, that's cool by me.
If they want a pork free dinner, that's cool too. But what has happened in the UK and in certain schools in Ireland is, pork is removed from the menu for ALL students because of potential offence to Muslims. Now that is not ok.