Ah lads .. taking the Micheal ..

viper123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I wonder how much of the interview footage was snipped to put a certain negative viewpoint across too?

I dont think they photoshopped in the interviewees into the pheasant pens for the interviews to be fair... a bit of cop on would have gone a long way, rte agenda or not

meathstevie

garv123 wrote: »

It came across awful on the news.. Foxes will kill the pheasants before we do??
What in gods name were they thinking.

And why did they film it in a pheasant pen? Why weren't the birds released weeks before November? Id say someone gets a few handy shots on the first when the pheasants are left off the night before... :rolleyes:

I reckon the clip on the news set the chances of it getting lifted back more than helping..

That’s why what Grizzly said is so important. A good media savvy PR pro manipulates what the media get to see and controls the narrative to a large extent. Have a look at political parties and large corporations, have a look at the likes of the GAA, the IRFU and so on. Not a hope will those organisations let anyone without media training be interviewed for radio or television. The media people play their game day in day out, you need to understand that and be able to play the game.

garrettod

All easy to say, when you've got the financial resources of the IRFU, GAA etc.

If the shooting faternity stopped the endless petty squabbling, and parked the "we're all right, so who cares about the rest" attitude for a while, then perhaps the circa 250,000 licence holders might work togeather, form a solid and professional body with PR experts, political lobbiests, researchers, education and training specialists etc, to work for the benefit of us all, along with our sporting interests.

bluezulu49

garrettod wrote: »

All easy to say, when you've got the financial resources of the IRFU, GAA etc.

form a solid and professional body with PR experts, political lobbiests, researchers, education and training specialists etc, to work for the benefit of us all, along with our sporting interests.

I don't think that throwing a lot of money at pr people is going to solve our image problem. Seems to me that the powers that be in NARGC naively jumped at the chance to be interviewed on tv. In my view tv interviews should be avoided like the plague and our point gotten over by providing succinct press statements which cover all the points we want to get across. This could have been achieved in a four or five line statement.

There seems to be a distinct lack of awareness in NARGC as to how to deal with the dissemination of information. A prime example is the fact that their recent pronouncements on Covid 19 and shooting are neither on the front page of their website, nor in their news section. Instead they are hidden under a dropdown menu under their home link. Amateur hour indeed.

dto001

I think as was said above it’s time to get a proper PR firm to start projecting all the good work the shooting world does there is never a mention of this. The RTÉ thing las night just put a picture to that image we already have. Even the interview on shannonside (which was better) but at the end the interviewer said “he got out of shooting when people started breeding birds to shoot”
Enough is enough now we really need to get our message across properly and if it takes a professional to do so then so be it!!! Enough with the “we are working tirelessly behind the scenes” Time and time again we get caught on the back foot!!

Will the next step be to fight it in the courts? And will this make us look even worse?

Also should something not be said about us being the only ones having our guns taken? You don’t see people driving out of the 5km having their cars taken!!

Feisar

garrettod wrote: »

All easy to say, when you've got the financial resources of the IRFU, GAA etc.

If the shooting faternity stopped the endless petty squabbling, and parked the "we're all right, so who cares about the rest" attitude for a while, then perhaps the circa 250,000 licence holders might work togeather, form a solid and professional body with PR experts, political lobbiests, researchers, education and training specialists etc, to work for the benefit of us all, along with our sporting interests.

The problem with that 250K is it’s not a homogeneous group of gun lovers. Strike out the farmers who own a tool* well they already have the IFA. Strike out people like my grandfather who always had an old Baikal but how often was it ever out? Then the lads who have a gun of some description but aren’t really enthusiasts. Then yer paired down to the likes of me and you. Let’s for arguments sake say 100K. Well I have five licences so by that logic there are 20K people to work with. Maybe it’s half/quarter of that I don’t know,

*not saying a farmer can’t be an avid target shooter.

Birdnuts

NARGC seem to be getting alot of heat from members and other hunters/shooters on their own social media pages over this. Many complaining about the "optics" of yesterday and the fact that duck shooters, deer stalkers etc. feel neglected compared to pheasant folk within the organisation.

useurowname

I feel sorry for them in a way. It looked to me like they were being sent up for it.
Though you have to question the thinking to agree to being interviewed in pheasant pen, beside actual pheasants. I was waiting for Ciaran Mullooly to point the mic at the pheasant and ask the bird a few questions.
Colleague in work actually sneering about it this afternoon.

Etc

At the end of the day, not being able to shoot Pheasants is a first world problem. I can't believe RTE would actually run a story on this on the news.

J.R.

bluezulu49 wrote: »

. A prime example is the fact that their recent pronouncements on Covid 19 and shooting are neither on the front page of their website, nor in their news section. Instead they are hidden under a dropdown menu under their home link. Amateur hour indeed.

1. Information is very difficult to find on the new website.......you have to search tabs and drop down menus.

2. Plus - the details about how to log in as a new member pop up every time you visit - as soon as you are logged in and registered ......that message should be gone, never to be seen again.

3. I see the NARGC shop is gone.

4. I think the banner - name of the page - bobbing up and blocking the page as you read is definitely one of the most annoying, irritating items I've seen on a website in a long time.......not an enjoyable website to visit.

bluezulu49

J.R. wrote: »

1. Information is very difficult to find on the new website.......you have to search tabs and drop down menus.

2. Plus - the details about how to log in as a new member pop up every time you visit - as soon as you are logged in and registered ......that message should be gone, never to be seen again.

3. I see the NARGC shop is gone.

4. I think the banner - name of the page - bobbing up and blocking the page as you read is definitely one of the most annoying, irritating items I've seen on a website in a long time.......not an enjoyable website to visit.

I made these points to NARGC on 30th October by email and have yet to receive an acknowledgement.

grassroot1

bluezulu49 wrote: »

I made these points to NARGC on 30th October by email and have yet to receive an acknowledgement.

The volunteers who work in the NARGC are probably busy. The optics of the phesant pen looked bad "next years breeding stock"
I understand there was a considerable lenght of time spent filming and a lot of editing.

bluezulu49

grassroot1 wrote: »

The volunteers who work in the NARGC are probably busy. The optics of the phesant pen looked bad "next years breeding stock"
I understand there was a considerable lenght of time spent filming and a lot of editing.

I appreciate that but the lack of response and of action on the website are really telling since not everyone has a facebook account.

This is the first time since the inception of NARGC that they needed to urgently convey crucial information to all of its members.

Have a look at their website. You might be forgiven for thinking they were trying to hide their covid statements of 30th and 31st October and 2nd November rather than publicise them.

At the end of the day well meaning amateurs are just that. Professional website expertise is certainly required in addition to some savvy PR advice.

Grizzly 45

bluezulu49 wrote: »

I don't think that throwing a lot of money at pr people is going to solve our image problem. Seems to me that the powers that be in NARGC naively jumped at the chance to be interviewed on tv. In my view tv interviews should be avoided like the plague and our point gotten over by providing succinct press statements which cover all the points we want to get across. This could have been achieved in a four or five line statement.

This would be the 3d time they have done this in 20 odd years and every time it is a PR mess..Why they dont have the proper training or personnel to handle this type of a situation.
Thing is; like shooting this is a skill that can be taught and learned as well by anyone willing and able to invest a few quid and some time in to become media savvy.At least to the point where they have control of certain aspects of the interview

Even if a couple of orgs wanted to chip in for training up one or two of their members,it wouldnt be so bad even if they were shared by them And while we are on optics,I would suggest a woman or someone disabled to prove we are gender-neutral and disabled welcoming...Not some old /middle-aged white guy in a baseball cap or tweed, playing into a stereotypical role for the media.:rolleyes: Optics is everything these days.
Even issuing a PR statement is a PR manager job. How many of those have been wasted by grammar, spelling and punctuation,even by corporations with professional PR is unbelievable.

I dont think they photoshopped in the interviewees into the pheasant pens for the interviews to be fair... a bit of cop on would have gone a long way, rte agenda or not

No, but they certainly could have edited out pertinent comments, chopped off others, or remastered the interview that things are taken and look out of context. Not so much in this kind of "tailer" or "and finally" type news report at the end of the main bulletin, which this was close enough to. But it's not to say it isn't or won't be done to fit an agenda or time limits. I'd bet that 5 min interview was over an hours worth of filming and takes to get this all spot on, to have 55mins worth on the cutting floor so to speak. Its something a good skilled PR person would/should be aware of.

But they shouldn’t have been moaning about in the media in the first place. In the scheme of things presently any sporting body complaining about the restrictions is getting slated.
They should try and read the room so to speak, and had they done that they should have known to keep the head down.

Yes that comes into it alot too. Been better just actually sticking with the radio interviews in this case IMO.It was enough.

I'll just leave you with this thought on PR and its importance if we had our NARGC lads up against say Chris Packham of BBC Countryfile...Who do you think would have come out on top of that debate?:(

ldc

The incompetence shown by the NARGC in this saga is unbelievable. When one looks at the timelines of the various components one can clearly see the whole debacle starting with a wishy washy statement by NARGC on the 20/10/20 which shows a sad lacking of clear guidance instead relying on words like “appears” and “follow HSE guidelines and government advice”. What members shooting away with probably no issues at all?
Then we had the amateurish TV coverage which left us looking like bloodthirsty slaughterers of tame game and then followed it up with ill advised interviews in the press moaning and complaining. Then we had the Dail debacle where firearms holders’ mental health in the present times was even needed to hear was a clear Yes go shooting or N0 you cannot. Their statement literally caused confusion and left I believe NARGC members with no option except to seek advice elsewhere and thus it grew legs from there. Had NARGC not come out with that ill written piece we would all be
mentioned. Now there is a proposal to go to court. Coupled to that there is only mention of one the courts come out on our side we will have lost all credibility with the public. Our conservation efforts which was a huge draw for us died with the TV time. Our shooting organisation has done probably irreparable damage to our sport and to our relationships with farmers, public perception, An game species, the pheasant.
Yes, I feel as a hunter that I have unnecessarily and unfairly lost out on a month’s hunting but even if Gardai and our politicians that will have long reaching implications. I think enough is enough, drop the intentions of court and manage properly the fallout from all our debacles. I understand that NARGC officials will want to gain back some credibility and a win in court would potentially do that in the short term but a loss would finish our sport.

For certain, a proper PR person is not an option, it is a necessity

grassroot1

ldc wrote: »

The incompetence shown by the NARGC in this saga is unbelievable. When one looks at the timelines of the various components one can clearly see the whole debacle starting with a wishy washy statement by NARGC on the 20/10/20 which shows a sad lacking of clear guidance instead relying on words like “appears” and “follow HSE guidelines and government advice”. What members shooting away with probably no issues at all?
Then we had the amateurish TV coverage which left us looking like bloodthirsty slaughterers of tame game and then followed it up with ill advised interviews in the press moaning and complaining. Then we had the Dail debacle where firearms holders’ mental health in the present times was even needed to hear was a clear Yes go shooting or N0 you cannot. Their statement literally caused confusion and left I believe NARGC members with no option except to seek advice elsewhere and thus it grew legs from there. Had NARGC not come out with that ill written piece we would all be
mentioned. Now there is a proposal to go to court. Coupled to that there is only mention of one the courts come out on our side we will have lost all credibility with the public. Our conservation efforts which was a huge draw for us died with the TV time. Our shooting organisation has done probably irreparable damage to our sport and to our relationships with farmers, public perception, An game species, the pheasant.
Yes, I feel as a hunter that I have unnecessarily and unfairly lost out on a month’s hunting but even if Gardai and our politicians that will have long reaching implications. I think enough is enough, drop the intentions of court and manage properly the fallout from all our debacles. I understand that NARGC officials will want to gain back some credibility and a win in court would potentially do that in the short term but a loss would finish our sport.

For certain, a proper PR person is not an option, it is a necessity

How did you get on contacting your TD?
I am hearing as you have said above that Nargc members in Dublin contact the gardai and caused this mess can you confirm?

cavan shooter

ldc wrote: »

The incompetence shown by the NARGC in this saga is unbelievable. When one looks at the timelines of the various components one can clearly see the whole debacle starting with a wishy washy statement by NARGC on the 20/10/20 which shows a sad lacking of clear guidance instead relying on words like “appears” and “follow HSE guidelines and government advice”. What members shooting away with probably no issues at all?
Then we had the amateurish TV coverage which left us looking like bloodthirsty slaughterers of tame game and then followed it up with ill advised interviews in the press moaning and complaining. Then we had the Dail debacle where firearms holders’ mental health in the present times was even needed to hear was a clear Yes go shooting or N0 you cannot. Their statement literally caused confusion and left I believe NARGC members with no option except to seek advice elsewhere and thus it grew legs from there. Had NARGC not come out with that ill written piece we would all be
mentioned. Now there is a proposal to go to court. Coupled to that there is only mention of one the courts come out on our side we will have lost all credibility with the public. Our conservation efforts which was a huge draw for us died with the TV time. Our shooting organisation has done probably irreparable damage to our sport and to our relationships with farmers, public perception, An game species, the pheasant.
Yes, I feel as a hunter that I have unnecessarily and unfairly lost out on a month’s hunting but even if Gardai and our politicians that will have long reaching implications. I think enough is enough, drop the intentions of court and manage properly the fallout from all our debacles. I understand that NARGC officials will want to gain back some credibility and a win in court would potentially do that in the short term but a loss would finish our sport.

For certain, a proper PR person is not an option, it is a necessity

I sense your frustration, but it takes a brave soul to stand up and do something in font of national media where you are being scrutinised by millions. There is an old saying "show me your success and Ill show you my failures" in other words I will have tried and failed more than you have every tried.

We have the Sports coalition who are backing the govt to the hilt and the country sports ireland whom haven't been heard of, other than shouting "down with this sort of thing....it's ok ......but can we shoot pheasants in February please" Just as they start pairing up and the woodcock are heading home....and some of ye are worried about a pen with pheasants in it at the start of a season:eek:.......

Fact is I kind of agree that we haven't the capability of dealing with the media, In fact I would say no volunteer out their would. Even an eminent solicitor was slaughtered on National TV a number of years ago on a prime time slot about Firearms. I for one would have banked that he would have been well able to handle himself and it was in hindsight quite cringeworthy to watch. I also remember a similar backlash from members and at the time, the screaming and shouting and proverbial lynch mob massing on the proverbial square. At the time, I thought it was unfair and I still do same way as I think it is unfair to comment so harshly.

I don't understand why you want to take it on the chin from the Gov, when you know what was done was wrong, Put it simply, how can walking in a field with a dog and a gun within 5km of your home be a breach of level 5 restrictions. How can I legitimately shoot ducks on Saturday 31st October within 5km of my home and the following day it becomes illegal. There is at this moment in time a fundamental flaw in the Gardais' interpretation of the restrictions and in the absence of them admitting to it then we have no choice but recourse to the courts to get clarity on the matter, one way or the other. Again, I don't see any other Organisations saying to the NARGC they will split the costs. Why have the other organisations rolled over?

On a final note, The PRO job is up for grabs in March, by the looks of things there will be 1000s going for it. The AGM is in Mayo a lovely part of the world. On a positive note it is great to see such an interest and how many good ideas their are and how things should be done differently.

bluezulu49

cavan shooter wrote: »

I don't understand why you want to take it on the chin from the Gov, when you know what was done was wrong,......

I do not want to take it on the chin from the Government but a wise man picks his battles and this one in my opinion is not worth the cost.

Going to the high court is a financially very risky and protracted process. Seems to me that there is no point in winning this battle some time next year when the shooting season is long over and covid restrictions possibly long lifted.

Chiparus

bluezulu49 wrote: »

I do not want to take it on the chin from the Government but a wise man picks his battles and this one in my opinion is not worth the cost.

Going to the high court is a financially very risky and protracted process. Seems to me that there is no point in winning this battle some time next year when the shooting season is long over and covid restrictions possibly long lifted.

Agree- this is better to bring up with your TD- but propose a solution to them -perhaps look for a 2 week extension at the end of the season?

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=cavan shooter;115197974]


Fact is I kind of agree that we haven't the capability of dealing with the media, In fact I would say no volunteer out their would. Even an eminent solicitor was slaughtered on National TV a number of years ago on a prime time slot about Firearms. I for one would have banked that he would have been well able to handle himself and it was in hindsight quite cringeworthy to watch. I also remember a similar backlash from members and at the time, the screaming and shouting and proverbial lynch mob massing on the proverbial square. At the time, I thought it was unfair and I still do same way as I think it is unfair to comment so harshly.

Which could have been avoided and never happened by a very competent and switched on PR/Media officer. Egan would have been pulled and would have walked out the door.60 secs before broadcast.

What happened that night and live debate
Willam Egan was supposed to debate gun law with a Garda Superintendent,[whether active or retired,has never been fully established] The Garda Super was "pulled" in the last minute and Egan was walked into debating with that anti-gun politician* who used emotivism Vs Logic. Which was a no-win match simply because it was like standing with a hammer when you need a saw to cut some wood.
It is a classic media "Rope a dope" trick. That any amatuer media /PR person would have called a stop to straight off by doing their job and being there to chaperone. 2 questions should have been asked
1] Who is the replacement? Why are they replaced?
2] What will they be discussing?

" Oh it's him Mr *...Come on Mr Egan we are gone!" That would have KILLED that PR disaster straight off and left RTE looking dumb,as someone had the audacity to walk out of the hallowed halls of Donnybrook and gob on the floor as they did.
That's how important and influential a professional media/PR is. A person like that is worth their weight in gold.

On a final note, The PRO job is up for grabs in March, by the looks of things there will be 1000s going for it. The AGM is in Mayo a lovely part of the world. On a positive note it is great to see such an interest and how many good ideas their are and how things should be done differently.

FFS! Make sure it is someone with some training in the subject, or willing to invest in training them up in the job. Not because he is some "good ol boy"and no one else wnts the job. Leave the position open until you get someone . In fact break the mold and give it to a woman or someone with a disability,or both. We need to change and adapt or we die.

* Who was that anti gun politico??He is so insignificant I've forgotten his name?

Grizzly 45

Strange that the Brits can do this right and keep shooting ,unlike the shambles over here.

Important note

Lockdown regulations apply throughout England from Thursday 5 November until Wednesday 2 December inclusive.

This means that we expect shooting in groups, including organised game shooting, to be able to resume from Thursday 3 December subject to local and regional restrictions.

Download the full guidance document here.


What is not permitted during the lockdown period

Driven game and other types of group shooting cannot take place from Thursday 5 November to Wednesday 2 December inclusive, as the new coronavirus regulations prevent gatherings of more than two people. England will return to a local and regional approach on 3 December and driven game shooting is expected to resume from that date subject to local and regional restrictions.

Leisure and sports facilities, including target shooting ranges and clay grounds are required to close up to and including 2 December.

What is permitted

Under the new coronavirus regulations, no person may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

Exceptions where a person may leave their home include:

Undertaking paid work, or to provide voluntary services
Animal welfare
Open air recreation

Essential bird and mammalian pest control to protect crops, livestock or conservation may continue during the lockdown period. Pest bird shooting must comply with relevant general or individual licences as applicable. Pest control services requested by a landowner or agent can be construed either as work (whether paid or unpaid) or voluntary service. The regulations do not impose any limits on how far you can travel.

Deer stalking as part of a management plan agreed with the landowner can similarly be considered as work or voluntary service. There are no legal restrictions on how far you can travel.

Game management and gamekeeping activities may continue during the lockdown period. Ensuring that birds under your care are adequately provided with food and water is important.

Recreational shooting activity such as informal rough shooting, wildfowling and recreational deer stalking may continue as ‘open air recreation’ but subject to strict legal limits on numbers. You may only participate in shooting activity with people you live with, your support bubble (if you are living alone), or one person from another household.

Government guidance advises that you should only make short journeys for the purposes of exercise and recreation – it does not define what distance they mean by this. You may not stay away from your home overnight to partake in recreational activity.

Non-essential retailers such as gun shops are allowed to trade remotely (online, mail order) and to provide “click and collect” services but customers are not allowed to enter the premises.

Other advice

When shooting during lockdown, we would advise taking a copy of your shotgun or firearm certificate with you and paperwork for your permission to shoot on the land you are on.

During lockdown local sensitivities can be high – be aware of how your recreation may appear to others. Although it is not a legal requirement you may want to log your trip in advance with Police on 101.

Everyone shooting during lockdown must consider the impact of their actions on the image and reputation of the sport. We all have a responsibility to comply with the letter and spirit of the regulations and guidance.

Government guidance can be found here: www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november with the regulations (legal text) here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1200/pdfs/uksi_20201200_en.pdf

dodderangler

Anyone explain why its ok to do pest control for crows and pigeons and fox but not pheasant or woodcock??
If anything 3 lads in a hide beside each other is more a risk but anyone out on pheasant or woodcock are not gonna be within 50 yards of each other . Like for one safety is involved
2. If shooting fir pheasant in cover or woodcock you have one or two dogs and 2- 3 lads you spread out covering all exits and a safe shot

J.R.

dodderangler wrote: »

Anyone explain why its ok to do pest control for crows and pigeons and fox but not pheasant or woodcock??

Government are claiming that vermin control is an essential service - therefore allowed and also allowed to travel beyond 5km to do it.

J.R.

dodderangler wrote: »

Anyone explain why its ok to do pest control for crows and pigeons and fox but not pheasant or woodcock??

Government are claiming that woodcock and pheasant are recreational activities - if they allow those then they will have to allow golf, tennis etc. which are also banned.

The crazy thing about it is - shooting ducks and snipe was allowed since 1st September ...then when pheasant season approaches ....all shooting stopped.

dodderangler

J.R. wrote: »

Government are claiming that vermin control is an essential service - therefore allowed and also allowed to travel beyond 5km to do it.

I know that but whats the difference. Still lads out hunting man. Crow pheasant no difference in location

useurowname

J.R. wrote: »

Government are claiming that woodcock and pheasant are recreational activities - if they allow those then they will have to allow golf, tennis etc. which are also banned.

The crazy thing about it is - shooting ducks and snipe was allowed since 1st September ...then when pheasant season approaches ....all shooting stopped.

We moved to level 5 since .

grassroot1

useurowname wrote: »

We moved to level 5 since .

we were allowed shoot ducks and deer at level 5 though

meathstevie

grassroot1 wrote: »

we were allowed shoot ducks and deer at level 5 though

Correct, the suspension of the shooting season has all appearance of an afterthought thrown in to please some agenda somewhere.

J.R.

The crazy thing about it now is:

Once within your 5 km limit you can walk up a field and bring your gundog and shotgun with you - perfectly legal and allowed.

While you are out in that field with the gun and gundog -

• If you shoot a pheasant you are breaking the law
• If you shoot a greycrow you are not breaking the law

How does such a rule prevent the spread of Covid-19?

dodderangler

J.R. wrote: »

The crazy thing about it now is:

Once within your 5 km limit you can walk up a field and bring your gundog and shotgun with you - perfectly legal and allowed.

While you are out in that field with the gun and gundog -

• If you shoot a pheasant you are breaking the law
• If you shoot a greycrow you are not breaking the law

How does such a rule prevent the spread of Covid-19?

In case a pheasant coughs on you and you get the rona