Trump vs Biden 2020, And the winner is.......... (pt 4) Read OP

Necro

super_furry wrote: »

I'll tell you who's doing well out of this election - Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Everyone's already forgot that United got spanked by a farmer's league team.

Leo's not doing so badly either, during another media cycle he'd be under much, much more pressure with his leaks.

Hey! Arsenal aren't that bad :pac:

Smee_Again

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Trump looks to be holding PA ,

The % share that Biden needs to win PA is falling with each count release. It started up in the high 70s and is now in the low 60s.

Even just looking at Philadelphia, Biden is winning 79% of the votes and with 30% (or c 200K) left to count he could gain an extra 160K votes on Trump there alone.

Eric Cartman

deathbomber wrote: »

indeed, getting close in Georgia although the ballot count is dwindling. I am picking up Biden will almost certainly take PA, although Trump is somewhat more prevalent than expected in the postal ballots

I still dont think any of those are likely to flip. Its all going to be about AZ and NV in the end

Doctor Jimbob

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Trump looks to be holding PA , because of provisional balloting and voting machine issues, theres still a sliver of hope in NV or AZ for trump. Biden needs both to win, trump only needs 1 and the gap is closing a lot more in AZ.

Its still anyones race

Is this 2020's version of "but maybe the electoral college go against the vote"?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I still dont think any of those are likely to flip. Its all going to be about AZ and NV in the end

Not according to betting agents and political experts, only according to you. He's slightly favourite to win Georgia, and overwhelmingly favourite to take Pennsylvania.

py2006

DrPhilG

Ignoring the actual live counts for a minute, whether Trump can squeak Arizona and/or Nevada, whether Biden can overtake Pennsylvania and/or Georgia...

Putting an unbiased hat on for a second, is there any scope for Trump's legal challenges? The rumour mill is in overdrive and of course the majority will be biased one way or the other and full of crap.

But so far there is rumour of:
*observers being denied the right to observe, which apparently they had been legally guaranteed
*counting rooms being boarded up with the observers on the wrong side
*vote counters openly wearing Biden/Harris masks while counting
*voter ID not being required to vote
*voted
*votes coming in from dead people

As I say most of these are probably just strop throwing by the Trump team and most people are just dismissing them. But it would be naieve to think that there is zero chance of any of it happening. And I imagine that Trump would only need to prove a little bit of it in order to cast doubt on the whole process.

So I'm not asking what you think will happen, or hope will happen, I'm asking what actually could happen here. America is a highly litigious place and Donald has shown that he'll fight to the death to hold on.

Tippex

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Georgia, alaska and N Carolina just havent declared but are all trump. The two boys are even ish at this point.

Lets get all pedantic the reality is none of the states have formally declared the media have called the results. Yes its all to play for but your assessment is wide of the mark.

Quin_Dub

Skeetur wrote: »

Anyone know if the late voting swing might give the democracts a majority in the house/Senate? Talk yesterday was Biden may win but wouldn't be able to enact much change. Anything changed with that?

No , it won't.. But.

At least 1 of the Georgia Senate seats is headed for a run-off election in January and the other one has an outside chance of doing the same.

If it's both , then the Democrats *could* get control of the Senate by winning them , but it'll probably only be one seat in a run-off and that likely will favour GOP.

Although Loeffler is a bit of a nutter having gone full Q-Anon in recent weeks , so it will probably be very very close.

Smee_Again

DrPhilG wrote: »

But so far there is rumour of:
*observers being denied the right to observe, which apparently they had been legally guaranteed
*counting rooms being boarded up with the observers on the wrong side

These 2 in particular seem to be a load of crap and relate to 1 place where there was roughly 3 times the number of allowed observers inside the building (a mix of Dem, Reps and Inds) and so no more were allowed in until people left. I read that there were 400+ observers when only 130ish were allowed.

In addition, once people were stopped from entering they started recording through windows which (I think) is illegal and so some windows were blocked while others weren't.

brick tamland

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Georgia, alaska and N Carolina just havent declared but are all trump. The two boys are even ish at this point.

Stop spreading complete lies

Bass Reeves

py2006 wrote: »

Hope to f@@k he dose not come to Ireland

super_furry

DrPhilG wrote: »

But so far there is rumour of:
*observers being denied the right to observe, which apparently they had been legally guaranteed
*counting rooms being boarded up with the observers on the wrong side
*vote counters openly wearing Biden/Harris masks while counting
*voter ID not being required to vote
*voted
*votes coming in from dead people

What's the source of these rumours? Is there anything credible to them? Who stands to benefit from them?

declanflynn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I still dont think any of those are likely to flip. Its all going to be about AZ and NV in the end

Binden will make it to 288

Penn

DrPhilG wrote: »

But so far there is rumour of:
*observers being denied the right to observe, which apparently they had been legally guaranteed
*counting rooms being boarded up with the observers on the wrong side
*vote counters openly wearing Biden/Harris masks while counting
*voter ID not being required to vote
*voted
*votes coming in from dead people

Just going by some of what I've seen, in some states there's a limit on how many observers are allowed, so those not being allowed to observe were ones who were over that limit. Counting rooms being boarded up were ones where there were observers in the counting room, and it was people in an adjacent room whose view was being blocked off because some of them were trying to record the count and intimidating the counters.

I'm just saying, there is disinformation floating about all over the place in this. Standard protocols being played off as being cheating while ignoring the actual processes in place to ensure the count is fair. Notice how these accusations are only being levelled at places where things haven't gone Trump's way and where they need to challenge the result specifically there in order to win. That's all it is.

drunkmonkey

Has counting stopped in Georgia, when's it expected to resume can't be many votes left.

km991148

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ignoring the actual live counts for a minute, whether Trump can squeak Arizona and/or Nevada, whether Biden can overtake Pennsylvania and/or Georgia...

...

But so far there is rumour of:
*...
*...
*...
*...
*voted
*...

As I say most of these are probably just strop throwing by the Trump team and most people are just dismissing them. But it would be naieve to think that there is zero chance of any of it happening. And I imagine that Trump would only need to prove a little bit of it in order to cast doubt on the whole process.

So I'm not asking what you think will happen, or hope will happen, I'm asking what actually could happen here. America is a highly litigious place and Donald has shown that he'll fight to the death to hold on.

Rumours spread because they are given attention.

Edit to add: There is zero chance of no fraud. But it it most likely to be statistically insignificant.

This talk of fraud is just more Trump.. "Leading" with the stick of fear.

DrPhilG

Smee_Again wrote: »

These 2 in particular seem to be a load of crap and relate to 1 place where there was roughly 3 times the number of allowed observers inside the building (a mix of Dem, Reps and Inds) and so no more were allowed in until people left. I read that there were 400+ observers when only 130ish were allowed.

In addition, once people were stopped from entering they started recording through windows which (I think) is illegal and so some windows were blocked while others weren't.

OK well that should be easy enough to disprove then. Giuliani was claiming that the observer wasn't allowed to set eyes on a single ballot. Presumably there will be recorded evidence to show that this is a lie.

But I wouldn't be surprised if some dead voters ballots were returned by family etc.

The question is, how much of that list of accusations does Trump need to prove in order to make any realistic claim for a dud vote?

py2006

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Has counting stopped in Georgia, when's it expected to resume can't be many votes left.

I'd say 3pm our time?

Bass Reeves

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Has counting stopped in Georgia, when's it expected to resume can't be many votes left.

I imagine counting has stopped in most states it 4, or 5 am in the morning there.

Doctors room ghost

Is cnn on sky

Peregrinus

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ignoring the actual live counts for a minute, whether Trump can squeak Arizona and/or Nevada, whether Biden can overtake Pennsylvania and/or Georgia...

Putting an unbiased hat on for a second, is there any scope for Trump's legal challenges? The rumour mill is in overdrive and of course the majority will be biased one way or the other and full of crap.

But so far there is rumour of:
*observers being denied the right to observe, which apparently they had been legally guaranteed
*counting rooms being boarded up with the observers on the wrong side
*vote counters openly wearing Biden/Harris masks while counting
*voter ID not being required to vote
*voted
*votes coming in from dead people

As I say most of these are probably just strop throwing by the Trump team and most people are just dismissing them. But it would be naieve to think that there is zero chance of any of it happening. And I imagine that Trump would only need to prove a little bit of it in order to cast doubt on the whole process.

So I'm not asking what you think will happen, or hope will happen, I'm asking what actually could happen here. America is a highly litigious place and Donald has shown that he'll fight to the death to hold on.

There are lots of rumours, and there are lots of assertions by various Trumpy figures. But, so far as prospects of success inlegal proceedings are concerned, legal twitter is pointing out:

(a) that rumours and assertions are irrelevant; what matters is what is stated in the pleadings and proven in evidence; and

(b) the pleadings in Trump's various court filings are online, and there is a striking gap between what is be said in rumours and assertions, and what is stated in the pleadings; the pleadings are making very cautious, very limited claims about improprieties.

The explanation for this is that lawyer are exposed to penalties and other sanctiuons for making false claims, or claims that cannot be proven, in court proceedings. So they only put in claims which they think might be true, and provable. And most of the rumours and allegations that you hear do not fall into that category.

Now, although the pleadings are online, I haven't read them myself, so the story that they actually allege little or nothing in the way of electoral improprieties may itself turn out to be false; it could itsel be just another rumour. But the basic point holds good; rumours and allegations will have no bearing at all on the outcome of Trump's various court cases; if it isn't in the pleadings, and supported by evidence, it won't affect the outcome. So if you really want to know what the outcome might be, ignore the rumours and allegations; just look at what's in the pleadings. And if you want to know whether rumours and allegations that you're hearing are true, again, look at the pleadings. If they aren't in the pleadings, the likely reason is that they are untrue or unfounded.

Smee_Again

DrPhilG wrote: »

OK well that should be easy enough to disprove then. Giuliani was claiming that the observer wasn't allowed to set eyes on a single ballot. Presumably there will be recorded evidence to show that this is a lie.

But I wouldn't be surprised if some dead voters ballots were returned by family etc.

The question is, how much of that list of accusations does Trump need to prove in order to make any realistic claim for a dud vote?

I stopped reading at Giuliani.

lawred2

Does Biden actually have a chance to take Georgia now? Seems really tight and the momentum is definitely going with him. Not many more votes to count though.

TheValeyard

I strongly believe Trump will run again for 2024. He will not let this defeat be his legacy. He cant handle it. And his support base are almost cult of personality in support of him.

flatface

km991148 wrote: »

His tactics are obvious at this stage. No hope or positivity. Destroy, blame, subterfuge, repeat.

The other guy, the other people, the system, the networks. Whoever or whatever, but not himself.

The quicker he goes the better. Hopefully now and not in 4 years time.

I think therein lies Trumps appeal. Many identify with his style and see themselves allowed to be selfish, blaming others for their problems. Sure I do it myself.

Not what I would look for in a leader but I can see the appeal in those feeling downtrodden, hopeless, or just that their views are not in line with right on Democratic views that are normally expected. Pc bridage is such a common complaint these days and they see Trump as someone saying hey your views don’t have to be suppressed or demonized.

JazzyJ

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ignoring the actual live counts for a minute, whether Trump can squeak Arizona and/or Nevada, whether Biden can overtake Pennsylvania and/or Georgia...

Putting an unbiased hat on for a second, is there any scope for Trump's legal challenges? The rumour mill is in overdrive and of course the majority will be biased one way or the other and full of crap.

But so far there is rumour of:
*observers being denied the right to observe, which apparently they had been legally guaranteed
*counting rooms being boarded up with the observers on the wrong side
*vote counters openly wearing Biden/Harris masks while counting
*voter ID not being required to vote
*voted
*votes coming in from dead people

As I say most of these are probably just strop throwing by the Trump team and most people are just dismissing them. But it would be naieve to think that there is zero chance of any of it happening...

There's always an element of some of these in any election. In Ireland I've seen voter ID not being required and people receiving multiple voting cards at different addresses. I'm sure there's probably cases of votes coming in from dead people too. It's impossible to get things 100% correct.

I'd have big issue with observers not being allowed access if this was true. But I haven't seen anything verifiable detailing this.

Smee_Again

TheValeyard wrote: »

I strongly believe Trump will run again for 2024. He will not let this defeat be his legacy. He cant handle it. And his support base are almost cult of personality in support of him.

Run for parole maybe.

listermint

DrPhilG wrote: »

OK well that should be easy enough to disprove then. Giuliani was claiming that the observer wasn't allowed to set eyes on a single ballot. Presumably there will be recorded evidence to show that this is a lie.

But I wouldn't be surprised if some dead voters ballots were returned by family etc.

The question is, how much of that list of accusations does Trump need to prove in order to make any realistic claim for a dud vote?

None of this is neutral hat as you made out in your opening post.


It's spreading disinformation . Nothing more. None of it is factual it's fabricated lies.

It's nothing but partisan.

Loafing Oaf

lawred2 wrote: »

Does Biden actually have a chance to take Georgia now? Seems really tight and the momentum is definitely going with him. Not many more votes to count though.

Bookies putting him round 4/6-4-7 favourite