The 2020 U.S. Election Irregularities.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120360342#Comment_120360342

That is a lot of words to say "I don't know". Revenue losses feed into compensatory damages. punitive damages have nothing to do with revenue or the actual loss incurred. they are imposed as punishment.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361164#Comment_120361164

I asked you if you read my post and it's clear you didn't as you keep mentioning punitive damages and I said this.

A quarter of a billion and a full apology at primetime, written by the injured party, would be very hurtful in every sense and send a strong message that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

Seeing as you think you know so much, can you tell me where I can find revenue figures?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361183#Comment_120361183

they are not relevant to the amount of compensation asked for. They make up only a tiny percentage of the compensation claimed.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361195#Comment_120361195

It's hugely important. It affects every part of the claim because it's part of the basis for it.

If it wasn't mentioned in the claim that's totally different but the fact that it is means it has to be proven and it therefore affects punitive and all other damages.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361309#Comment_120361309

JFC. it is like talking to the wall. their revenue has no bearing on the amount of punitive damages claimed. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361323#Comment_120361323

Do you know who awards damages in New York?

Do you think it's a judge?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361352#Comment_120361352

Juries do. do you still not understand what punitive damages are and why any actual loss suffered is irrelevant to them?

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361366#Comment_120361366

Did you read what I showed you from the first post of mine which you quoted? A public apology, money to show this type of behaviour is unacceptable. What type of damages do you call that?

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361121#Comment_120361121

Literally type "Dominion Voting Systems Revenue" into Google and you'll get your answer

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361517#Comment_120361517

do you still not understand what punitive damages are and why any actual loss suffered is irrelevant to them? Clearly not.

28064212

Now type "Fox Annual Revenue" into Google, and consider which figure is more relevant when it comes to considering what amount constitutes a punishment on Fox

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361731#Comment_120361731

while I get your point even that isn't necessarily the upper limit. Hulk Hogan sued Gawker for over 100M. The jury awarded him 115M in compensatory damages and 25M in punitive damages. Gawkers revenues at the time was between 40M and 50M. Hogan eventually settled for 35M, which is a nice chunk of change for the world seeing 2 minutes of you having sex.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361717#Comment_120361717

It's clear you that doesn't understand what punitive damages are if you can't see from my post that an apology and money to show that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable is punitive.

Damages, not punitive, are related to loss of income and defamation of character/reputation and some other stuff.

Punitive is extra penalties given to show this behaviour is unacceptable or because the penalties are not severe enough.

eagle eye

So the revenue of the firm is important because it not only relates to the ordinary damages but affects punitive damages as well. A jury will always reflect on the ordinary damages, as they should , before deciding on a punitive amount.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361955#Comment_120361955

All while secretly backed by billionaire Peter Thiel who wanted revenge on Gawker. An actual real conspiracy.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364279#Comment_120364279

Yea but he's a conservative right wing type. So conspiracy theorists have no interest in him or his activities for some reason.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361607#Comment_120361607

Did you try that? I've tried it and many other titles but have had no luck. Only thing I came across was the Fox claim in court that they currently have revenue approaching $100 million.

I found in another court session where Fox claimed that Smartmatic were losing money over the five years prior to the election.

I want to get the annual yearly figures for both companies but I can't find them anywhere.

And I'm not looking for profit/loss figures, just revenue.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364397#Comment_120364397

Seems like you need to buy a new computer or phone seeing that it refuses to search the internet. . @28064212 and I found it by doing exactly what he/she said. Google!

sydthebeat

Smartmatic has subsideries in many different countries, so you'd need to find the revenues for each subsideray as well. Then you'd also need to predict the company growth over it's lifetime, to include access into others countries where it doesn't have at the moment. Then predict the income of all these existing and future companies plus their predicted revenue growth over time

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364756#Comment_120364756

I just need revenue for the firm who conducted activities in the 2020 election.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364699#Comment_120364699

Can you share a link to what you found please?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364279#Comment_120364279

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364345#Comment_120364345

Everybody involved in that, Hogan, thiel and gawker, were all terrible. I'm not sure it was much of a conspiracy. Gawker outed Thiel as gay and he wanted revenge. I dont think the fact he was backing cases against Gawker was ever a secret.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364978#Comment_120364978

I've only read Holiday's book on it, but from that it seems they didn't twig what was going on until it was too late, and even then it was pure speculation on their side who Hogan's backer was. Thiel hid his tracks well.

Anyway back to the elections, have to love that opening statement by Smartmatic in their lawsuit

1. The Earth is round. Two plus two equals four. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the 2020 election for President and Vice President of the United States. The election was not stolen, rigged, or fixed. These are facts. They are demonstrable and irrefutable.

2. Defendants have always known these facts. They knew Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the 2020 U.S. election. They knew the election was not stolen. They knew the election was not rigged or fixed. They knew these truths just as they knew the Earth is round and two plus two equals four.

3. Defendants did not want Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to win the election. They wanted President Donald Trump and Vice President Michael Pence to win re-election. Defendants were disappointed. But they also saw an opportunity to capitalize on President Trump’s popularity by inventing a story. Defendants decided to tell people that the election was stolen from President Trump and Vice President Pence.

4. Defendants had an obvious problem with their story. They needed a villain. They needed someone to blame. They needed someone whom they could get others to hate. A story of good versus evil, the type that would incite an angry mob, only works if the storyteller provides the audience with someone who personifies evil.

5. Without any true villain, Defendants invented one. Defendants decided to make Smartmatic the villain in their story. Smartmatic is an election technology and software company. It was incorporated in Delaware and its U.S. operations are headquartered in Florida. In the 2020 U.S. election, Smartmatic provided election technology and software in Los Angeles County. Nowhere else. Smartmatic had a relatively small, non-controversial role in the 2020 U.S. election.

6. Those facts would not do for Defendants. So, the Defendants invented new ones. In their story, Smartmatic was a Venezuelan company under the control of corrupt dictators from socialist countries. In their story, Smartmatic’s election technology and software were used in many of the states with close outcomes. And, in their story, Smartmatic was responsible for stealing the 2020 election by switching and altering votes to rig the election for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

7. Having invented their story, and created their villain, Defendants set about spreading the word. In November and December 2020, Fox News broadcasted thirteen (13) reports stating and implying that Smartmatic had stolen the 2020 U.S. election. They repeated the story in articles and social media postings. Night after night, publication after publication, Fox News reached out to its millions of viewers and readers around the world with a story: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris did not win the 2020 election; Smartmatic stole the election for them.

8. Defendants’ story evolved over time as they claimed evidence had come to their attention supporting the story. The story came to consist of eight themes: 

Smartmatic’s election technology and software were widely used in the 2020 U.S. election, including in six states with close outcomes;  Smartmatic’s election technology and software were used by Dominion Voting Systems Corporation (“Dominion”) during the 2020 U.S. election; 

Smartmatic’s election technology and software were used to steal the 2020 U.S. election by rigging and fixing the vote;

Smartmatic’s election technology and software sent votes to foreign countries for tabulation and manipulation during the 2020 U.S. election;  Smartmatic’s election technology and software were compromised and hacked during the 2020 U.S. election; 

Smartmatic was previously banned from being used in U.S. elections; 

Smartmatic is a Venezuelan company that was founded and funded by corrupt dictators from socialist and communist countries; and, 

Smartmatic’s election technology and software were designed to rig and fix elections.

9. Defendants’ story was a lie. All of it. And they knew it. But, it was a story that sold. Millions of individuals who saw and read Defendants’ reports believed them to be true. Smartmatic and its officers began to receive hate mail and death threats. Smartmatic’s clients and potential clients began to panic. The company’s reputation for providing transparent, auditable, and secure election technology and software was irreparably harmed. Overnight, Smartmatic went from an under-the-radar election technology and software company with a track record of success to the villain in Defendants’ disinformation campaign.

10. Smartmatic’s loss was Defendants’ gain. Fox News used the story to preserve its grip on viewers and readers and curry favors with the outgoing administration – one of their anchors was even able to get a pardon for her ex-husband. Ms. Powell used the story to raise money and enrich herself. Mr. Giuliani used the story to guarantee himself a flow of funds from the sitting President and to sell products. Defendants knew the story could not change the outcome of the election. It could, and did, make them money.

11. The story, of course, did more than just make Defendants’ money and jeopardize Smartmatic’s survival. The story undermined people’s belief in democracy. The story turned neighbor against neighbor. The story led a mob to attack the U.S. Capitol. Defendants started a fire for selfish and financial reasons and they cared not the damage their story caused to Smartmatic, its officers and employees, and the country.

12. With this action, Smartmatic says: Enough. Facts matter. Truth matters. Defendants engaged in a conspiracy to spread disinformation about Smartmatic. They lied. And they did so knowingly and intentionally. Smartmatic seeks to hold them accountable for those lies and for the damage that their lies have caused.

13. Smartmatic brings sixteen (16) claims against Defendants for defamation and disparagement. Smartmatic seeks to recover in excess of $2.7 billion for the economic and noneconomic damage caused by Defendants’ disinformation campaign as well as punitive damages. Finally, Smartmatic seeks a declaration requiring Defendants to fully and completely retract their false statements and implications. 

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361183#Comment_120361183

I don't think their revenue history is the only determinant for the damages claimed in the lawsuit. There will be 'reputational' and 'opportunity' damages, i.e., the plaintiff (Dominion) is asserting the harm that will be done to the corporation by the scurrilous accusations of the defendant. It's a projection - e.g., 'we earned $1million last year, but these lies destroyed the next 100 years of our business worth eleventy million-billion dollars.' You can probably dig out Dominion's balance sheet if they're publically traded. A quick google, seems they're based in Canada and not publicly traded. When the penalty phase of the lawsuit comes up, this data will probably be made available to the judge/jury.

Now, this differs from the punitive damages. If you look at what's happened to Alex Jones in his various lost lawsuits about Sandy Hook, punitive damages are a separate thing; this is the damage the judge imposes because you broke the law (libel and slander I think in the case of Dominion, probably something similar for Jones.) Punitive damages can be whatever the Judge imposes in most states, some states (Texas, where Jones wanted one of his trial) have some low limits, relatively speaking. Connecticut, another state where Jones went to trial, didn't and the punitive damages were billions. He's appealing I expect.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365416#Comment_120365416

When they put it like that.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365504#Comment_120365504

I have no disagreement with you as regards other damages. They mentioned the affect on revenue which makes it a huge part of the claim.

You see while you mention the next 100 years might be affected by this, a term which is ridiculous btw, this happened in 2020/21 so there's been a full year since then and looking at revenue for that year is important as will the years '18, '19, '20 and '21.

In New York the judge doesn't give punitive or any other damages, it's decided by the jury.

Punitive damages are more extensive or punishment damages. For instance a public apology can be ordered as punitive but not as ordinary. A decision by the jury that the maximum allowed under normal damages is not enough can be given as punitive, a decision by the jury that a message must be sent to ensure that it's clear that this type of behaviour is unacceptable is also punitive, that's normally in the form of more money too and a message accompanying the award explaining why it was given.

The jury has a lot of power and can order a lot of different punitive awards.

The fact that revenue is part of the claim makes it very important and that's why I'm looking for those figures. As I've already said I'm not looking for profit and loss figures, the only figures that matter are revenue. The reason I'm looking for these figures is to try and gauge why the amounts being looked for are so high.

I just want to see if they are reasonable claims or completely ridiculous.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365416#Comment_120365416

That can't possibly be part of the lawsuit. It could be an opening statement to a jury but it can't be filed as part of the legal argument.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366886#Comment_120366886

"Ridiculous" is of course a matter of opinion. In a US case, I don't think you have to justify what you ask for in a lawsuit; its when the suit's decided that the numbers get real. Here is the 'prayer' from Smartmatic from the filing (https://www.smartmatic.com/uploads/Smartmatic_Complaint_Against_Fox_Corporation.pdf) , which is the request to the Court to be 'made whole.'

---

Compensatory damages in an amount to be determined at trial;

b. Actual, consequential and special damages in an amount to be determined

at trial, but no less than $ 2.7 billion;

c. Punitive damages;

d. Reasonable and necessary attorneys’ fees;

e. Reasonable and necessary costs of the suit;

f. Prejudgment and post-judgment interest at the highest lawful rates;

g. Declarative and injunctive relief; and

h. Such other and further relief as this Court deems just and appropriate. 

---

Yes, '100 years' was meant as simply an example of 'the foreseeable future'. 'Actual, consequential and special damages' when determined will make that 'real.' Smartmatic's not going to put any limits on what they ask for - what they'll actually get remains to be seen.

It's a doozy of a filing, their lawyers have done a very detailed job of enumerating Fox's shenanigans, why they were wrong and even why Fox knew they were wrong in some cases. 285 pages, not exactly light reading.

Igotadose

And a bit more from paragraph 471 (!) of the filing, showing where Smartmatic got its numbers from:

"For the five-year period ending December 31, 2025, the Smartmatic election technology business line forecasts over $500 million in lost profits under base contracts alone as a result of Defendants’ disinformation campaign. This does not include the profits that Smartmatic would have enjoyed from add-ons or other services that almost always accompany such base contracts, which Smartmatic estimates as not less than $190 million. Smartmatic’s election technology business enterprise value has likewise suffered, with its election-related brand, reputation, and enterprise value losing over $2.4 billion as a result of the disinformation campaign. In total, the entire SGO Corporation enterprise value – which includes the election technology business as well as Airlabs and Folio business lines – has been damaged by not less than $2.7 billion"

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120367058#Comment_120367058

The ridiculous relates to 100 years. There is no basis with modern technology and how quickly it improves to forecast this business will still be active in 25 let alone 100 years and furthermore if they cannot recover their reputation in 10 years then there is a problem with the company not related to Fox news.

Anybody who thinks they can get away with a period beyond 10 years is going to create doubt with a jury as there are plenty of facts which can be brought up by the defense to berate those arguments.

As regards their projections up to the end of 2025, this is the reason that revenue figures are important. They have to prove that their revenue since 2018 points to the projections up to the end of 2025. For example if they only show a growth of 5% annually from 2018 through 2019 and no loss since then the jury are not going to accept exorbitant growth projections over the next couple of years. If they show growth similar to or above that from 2018 through 2019 that's a big problem too.

Any business that does not trade with the name Smartmatic is going to be challenged and most likely successfully by the defense unless Fox named these other businesses.

Just to make it clear, I want Fox to suffer and I'm looking at this from the point of view that you shouldn't look for too much in case it destroys your case.