Discovery 3x04 - 'Forgot Me Not' **Spoilers Within**

CastorTroy

flazio wrote: »

Corkie, I don't think you got Adrias gender wrong. As far as I'm aware the actor is non binary but the character is female. The actor depicting Gray is a transgender male and Gray was definitely referred to as a "boyfriend".
LGBTQ+ communities seem to be very happy with how the characters are portrayed as far as I can see. Not the first time Star Trek has addressed non binary characters of course, I'd say an episode like The Outcast would have been received a lot differently today then it was in 1992.

I was going to say the same thing so just double checked online. Seems the character is non binary but isn't correcting people.

corkie

CastorTroy wrote: »

For the mysteriously attacked part, wasn't it an asteroid that hit them? At least it looked that way, because I was thinking it was surely something all ships take into account and likely have shields for.

For that I was quoting the linked website, so details maybe incorrect.

flazio wrote: »

Corkie, I don't think you got Adrias gender wrong. As far as I'm aware the actor is non binary but the character is female. The actor depicting Gray is a transgender male and Gray was definitely referred to as a "boyfriend".
LGBTQ+ communities seem to be very happy with how the characters are portrayed as far as I can see. Not the first time Star Trek has addressed non binary characters of course, I'd say an episode like The Outcast would have been received a lot differently today then it was in 1992.

CastorTroy wrote: »

I was going to say the same thing so just double checked online. Seems the character is non binary but isn't correcting people.

As discussed here, the actor(/ess) only came out to family during the time of filming. And character will be on the show. As human+'squid' then 'they' works.

Mr E

Some very fussy people here. That was a great episode.

Banana Republic 1

SouthWesterly wrote: »

And there was me thinking the boyfriend was very effeminate.

No doubt they will ham up the script and in doing so will do no justice to the subject. Judging by what went down in this episode it will be forced down the audiences throats. The good parts about this episode won’t be carried through.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

If Adira was on that generation ship 2 years ago that makes her 14 at the time which is possible as it never definitely said she was living with Grey but the relationship seemed a bit mature for 14 year olds and to be on a security team at 16 is even crazy by Wesley Crusher standards

Who would win in a fist fight Burnham or Adira. Stalemate,

breezy1985

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Who would win in a fist fight Burnham or Adira. Stalemate,

Tilly :mad:

Rawr

I was going to wait a few weeks before delving back in, but I needed a distraction from the US election, and it fitted the bill.

The Good:

- Saru's a great captain, the whole attempt to encourage his senior staff to open up to each other felt like a real leadership move.

- Tilly is better this season. Also...kind of feels like a better First Officer for Saru in this episode.

- We actually started to get to know the crew.

- The A / B structure of the episode felt more like Trek this time.

- The inclusion of Trill made it feel a little more like Trek.


The not so good:

- Culber's 'Grey's Anatomy' style diary opening. I really wish TV writers would stop doing this. It was also misleading me into thinking he'd have a more leading roll in Adria's story. This leads me to the next issue:

- Michael (again): Culber should have been the one to go down to Trill, but you could almost see the contrivance of the plot at play to find any slither of an excuse for Michael to go instead. In any other Trek series, this would have been a Culber episode, where we would have an A-plot with him & Adria, while the rest of the crew were in the B-plot. Instead we get Michael, because *of course* we do.

- The drawn out a boring back story of Adria, Grey and the Tal Symbiod. I had some hope that we were dealing with Dax, but even if it wasn't I was hoping with a least a link with the TNG world. Instead we get this story which I feel they are trying to present as an emotional and hard-hitting tragedy, but it just comes across as shallow. Throwing a chello in there will just give us some good music a for a few minutes folks...it does not make up for a lack of the feeling genuine loss between the characters. Alas...it was badly done.

- The joining scenes also had this problem. They had a chance to make some very good scenes here, but instead you have Adria and Michael on a green-screen screaming the bloody obvious to each other. Also, for our trouble the best we get from the past is a Picard-era Starfleet uniform? Come on guys...you can do better than that!

breezy1985

I agree with all of that except Dax. I want no more connected characters.

Tilly in particular finally feels like a starfleet officer and not some giddy teen schoolgirl

CramCycle

Rawr wrote: »

I was going to wait a few weeks before delving back in, but I needed a distraction from the US election, and it fitted the bill.

The Good:

- Saru's a great captain, the whole attempt to encourage his senior staff to open up to each other felt like a real leadership move.

- Tilly is better this season. Also...kind of feels like a better First Officer for Saru in this episode.

- We actually started to get to know the crew.

- The A / B structure of the episode felt more like Trek this time.

- The inclusion of Trill made it feel a little more like Trek.


The not so good:

- Culber's 'Grey's Anatomy' style diary opening. I really wish TV writers would stop doing this. It was also misleading me into thinking he'd have a more leading roll in Adria's story. This leads me to the next issue:

- Michael (again): Culber should have been the one to go down to Trill, but you could almost see the contrivance of the plot at play to find any slither of an excuse for Michael to go instead. In any other Trek series, this would have been a Culber episode, where we would have an A-plot with him & Adria, while the rest of the crew were in the B-plot. Instead we get Michael, because *of course* we do.

- The drawn out a boring back story of Adria, Grey and the Tal Symbiod. I had some hope that we were dealing with Dax, but even if it wasn't I was hoping with a least a link with the TNG world. Instead we get this story which I feel they are trying to present as an emotional and hard-hitting tragedy, but it just comes across as shallow. Throwing a chello in there will just give us some good music a for a few minutes folks...it does not make up for a lack of the feeling genuine loss between the characters. Alas...it was badly done.

- The joining scenes also had this problem. They had a chance to make some very good scenes here, but instead you have Adria and Michael on a green-screen screaming the bloody obvious to each other. Also, for our trouble the best we get from the past is a Picard-era Starfleet uniform? Come on guys...you can do better than that!

100% and rarely, if Michael had been left on the ship, this would have been an episode where her presence would have made sense. All that tension bubbling over, lets not kid each other, they went there for her and she doesn't even seem that bothered by it. It would have been great to have the scene with Stamets blood replaced with her blaming Michael for their misery which she barely acknowledges. This could have been a Trek classic with ease and they yet again missed the mark.

corkie

Rawr wrote: »

- The drawn out a boring back story of Adria, Grey and the Tal Symbiod. I had some hope that we were dealing with Dax, but even if it wasn't I was hoping with a least a link with the TNG world. Instead we get this story which I feel they are trying to present as an emotional and hard-hitting tragedy, but it just comes across as shallow. Throwing a chello in there will just give us some good music a for a few minutes folks...it does not make up for a lack of the feeling genuine loss between the characters. Alas...it was badly done.

There was very limited 'Trill' episodes in TNG, what we know most about them came from DS9.

corkie wrote: »

There was enough references to DS9 in this episode without a need to string a connection to 'Dax'. The only loose connection is that maybe Gray Tal or another trill host was a decedent of a 'Dax' host. <<<< @TheValeyard

Tired Gardener

It felt like a return to what Star Trek should be, however it still has a few issues.

Why are the Trill suddenly xenophobic? Of all the races in Star Trek, I have great difficulty in believing that they would act like they did in this episode.

The music felt a bit heavy handed in trying to invoke a deep emotional response to characters who have only very recent entered the show, Aditra and Gray respectively.

Shoehorning Michael Burnham to be on the away team to Trill, instead of Hugh Culter... just makes it seem more and more like we are getting Star Trek the adventures of Michael Burnham.

Phasers still don't seem to have a stun setting.

Aside from those slight annoyances it was a ok episode.

CramCycle

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Phasers still don't seem to have a stun setting.

They definitely do, one of the people she shot walks into the sacred area and the lad in red pointed out they would wake up soon. Fair enough, a bit more dramatic in their reaction to getting shot but they were all stunned.

Stark

corkie wrote: »

There was very limited 'Trill' episodes in TNG, what we know most about them came from DS9.

DS9 did a lot of ret-conning as well. Different makeup and the joined personalities in DS9 were mergers of host and symbiont personality whereas TNG showed the symbiont completely taking over the host. They also couldn't use transporters without harming the symbiont in TNG but Dax seemed to have no issues in DS9.

McGiver

Tired Gardener wrote:

Phasers still don't seem to have a stun setting.

She said "They'll be fine" when she mercilessly shot the Trill guards (so un-Federation!). Not sure if they really did get fine...

breezy1985

Stark wrote: »

DS9 did a lot of ret-conning as well. Different makeup and the joined personalities in DS9 were mergers of host and symbiont personality whereas TNG showed the symbiont completely taking over the host. They also couldn't use transporters without harming the symbiont in TNG but Dax seemed to have no issues in DS9.

Wasnt it down to Terri Farrell being seen as to sexy to put makeup on her face so they decided on a more subtle look

FunLover18

That was fine.

Like others I don't see why Culber couldn't go down with Adira and just asked Michael to come too, it's not like he was important to the dinner plot. Also maybe I misinterpreted the scene when he was asking her to go, it seemed like he was telling her to stop hoarding responsibility while at the same time making her feel responsible for Adira. It stood out to me as poor writing.

Every time it's mentioned that Michael has been in the future for (only) a year, it bothers me. There better be a good reason later on as to why it wasn't more because it just seems like such a short time for her to have gone through the massive change they're hinting at.

Rawr

FunLover18 wrote: »

Every time it's mentioned that Michael has been in the future for (only) a year, it bothers me. There better be a good reason later on as to why it wasn't more because it just seems like such a short time for her to have gone through the massive change they're hinting at.

I fear this may be due to the simple fact that the actress might not have wanted to have 10 years added to her for the run of the show.

That or the producers were too clueless to consider the idea...

breezy1985

Rawr wrote: »

I fear this may be due to the simple fact that the actress might not have wanted to have 10 years added to her for the run of the show.

That or the producers were too clueless to consider the idea...

I'm just glad they came up with an excuse to give her a bit of charisma don't care how many space years it took

Sleepy

Definitely looking like whoever it was that suggested Sonequa Martin-Green has a contract clause stating a minimum number of minutes in each episode was right. This whole episode would, once again, have been better without her. Michael was just in the way for most of the stuff on Trill and only seemed to be there to remind us that she's the star of the show.

Rawr

Sleepy wrote: »

Definitely looking like whoever it was that suggested Sonequa Martin-Green has a contract clause stating a minimum number of minutes in each episode was right. This whole episode would, once again, have been better without her. Michael was just in the way for most of the stuff on Trill and only seemed to be there to remind us that she's the star of the show.

I might be guilty there. I know I've at least aired my suspicion that Martin-Green has a contract that requires her character to be at the center of most things....if not everything. I had also aired my hope that her original contract was only a 2-year deal and that hopefully they'd re-tool it to make Season 3 a proper re-boot...alas this does not appear to be the case.

Michael's role on Trill was mostly to point out the bloody obvious and sort of fight some Trill guards. It was starkly obvious in the writing that they were reaching to give Michael a good reason to be in the Trill plot.

Culper: Michael! You've been through so much! YOU must join her on the trip to Trill! You are prefect for this.
(Says the guy who not only went through the same hell as everyone else on Discovery, but also had a relatable crisis of identity in Spore-space. But no....*Michael* is a better choice to deal with a Trill's identity crisis)

flazio

Michael Burnham, the Lewis Hamilton of Star Trek.

Culber being at dinner did matter however.
He'd been trying to reach out to Detmer for a while and to have him see her break down and lash out at his husband and still forgive her.

I don't mind that they contrived to have her on Trill. It allowed the rest of the crew grow.

It's the smashing her into the heart of every galactic event which is annoying. Let her be the star, no problem, but she's not a prophesied Skywalker-esque character who constantly is the most important person in existence.

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't mind that they contrived to have her on Trill. It allowed the rest of the crew grow.

It's the smashing her into the heart of every galactic event which is annoying. Let her be the star, no problem, but she's not a prophetised Skywalker-esque character who constantly is the most important person in existence.

Ya it's not like she is Kirk or Picard. Seriously though I do agree with you would it really be that terrible if this season it was Detmer who had the secret time travel mother or Saru who was dating a Klingon disguised as Clem Fandango

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Tilly :mad:

She would burst out crying midway through.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree with all of that except Dax. I want no more connected characters.

Tilly in particular finally feels like a starfleet officer and not some giddy teen schoolgirl

I particularly liked the scene where stamets grew a pair and hit Tilly a slap of a wet sock finally.

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

Ya it's not like she is Kirk or Picard. Seriously though I do agree with you would it really be that terrible if this season it was Detmer who had the secret time travel mother or Saru who was dating a Klingon disguised as Clem Fandango

Picard and Kirk were saved (repeatedly) by their crew. The ships were saved by others.


As I said, let her be the star but everything can not centre around her so often.

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Picard and Kirk were saved (repeatedly) by their crew. The ships were saved by others.


As I said, let her be the star but everything can not centre around her so often.

I know I have been on your side of the argument many times on other forums and but the DIS fans go nuts about any criticism and whataboutery everything

Evade

Rawr wrote: »

I fear this may be due to the simple fact that the actress might not have wanted to have 10 years added to her for the run of the show.

That or the producers were too clueless to consider the idea...

She'd be going from ~34 to ~44. They could get away with no real change to her appearance. They expect us to believe that's a year of hair growth after all.

somuj

Evade wrote: »

She'd be going from ~34 to ~44. They could get away with no real change to her appearance. They expect us to believe that's a year of hair growth after all.

They have been using tech to grow hair for as long as I've been watching trek.

Evade

somuj wrote: »

They have been using tech to grow hair for as long as I've been watching trek.

If she showed up wither hair like that it'd be fine but they showed it growing in the montage.