Discovery 3x04 - 'Forgot Me Not' **Spoilers Within**

breezy1985

Smacruairi wrote: »

I was drunk, watched a random ds9 episode, grand no problem. I can't imagine doing the same with DISCO series 2 or 3. Start of season 1 up to the mirror universe maybe though.

Season 2 up until it's revealed that it's all about Burnham again when they unlock the red angel mystery is great. Absolutely love Pike seeing his future and the early.
Problem is these guys have used the same pattern in 3 seasons so far and the mystery is always ruined by a shockingly terrible reveal. Mirror universe, Burnham's mother and Picard Vs the Reapers from Mass Effect.
And like the Abrams movies it's supposed to be doing things a little different but so far the bad guys are the Klingons, section 31 and the mirror universe so not a single new idea

AllForIt

The only stand out episodes of disco for me is the Mudd episode (S1, time repeating itself) and the second last espisode of S2, where they catch mom. The rest of my memory cells of disco have been overwritten since.

Goodshape

I'd honestly mostly forgotten about the mom. Awful rubbish really. Think I'd zoned out by then.

The Mudd episode was decent alright. And I think episode 2 from season 2 was decent? Kind of our first adventure with Pike, felt like good ol' Star Trek again for a moment.

breezy1985

AllForIt wrote: »

The only stand out episodes of disco for me is the Mudd episode (S1, time repeating itself) and the second last espisode of S2, where they catch mom. The rest of my memory cells of disco have been overwritten since.

If you don't forget certain things about that show you'll go mad. Like the fact that Burnham is Starfleets first ever mutineer and gets her job back almost straight away after pulling a gun on her captain and starting a war

Banana Republic 1

Rawr wrote: »

Ahh, but this is scifi and nothing is really dead so long as the plot requires it.
Especially when we're talking about a living computer virus that knows how to hop between different hosts. They merely killed it's last host...the virus itself could still be operating in that pool of gore we saw them clean up in Episode 2.

I'm not saying that I actually want Control to return. Like many thinks in Discovery it was an interesting idea that was very poorly executed. However I think it's possible that they would bring it back as the big-bad of this show again.

I don’t doubt it because the writers don’t se to able to come up there own ideas. Now that’s in in discovery as we saw when the computer had a conversation with Saru they have put the whole space time continuum at risk. What they should have done was fly the ship into a star and then blow up the star turning it into a black hole so nothing could escape and take the entire crew with it to be sure.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

If you don't forget certain things about that show you'll go mad. Like the fact that Burnham is Starfleets first ever mutineer and gets her job back almost straight away after pulling a gun on her captain and starting a war

Agh but the fist fight she had with the cyborg girl justifies her presence on the ship.

The crew of TNG and Voy have several fights with cyBorg and won.
Just saying

~Rebel~

This ep was ok... I liked the idea of it more than the execution. Particularly on the planet, the pacing felt weird - everyone jumping straight into delivering their cultural point of view within seconds of them landing. I feel like all that could have been stretched out much longer and made more natural and interesting, and saved all that emotional bluster for later. Could have been welcomed at first and gotten to learn a bit about the trill over the past centuries. Then we find the yellow chap plotting against them and delivering his speech about her being an abomination, with the red chap appearing to save them from death/forced separation. Then the final act would have been in the caves.

I always feel like this show doesn’t trust their audience and want to throw heavy emotion at us up front all the time to hook us in, like a CW show or something - when if there’s one audience you can trust to hang in there and appreciate a good narrative build it’s the Trek audience.

Banana Republic 1

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This ep was ok... I liked the idea of it more than the execution. Particularly on the planet, the pacing felt weird - everyone jumping straight into delivering their cultural point of view within seconds of them landing. I feel like all that could have been stretched out much longer and made more natural and interesting, and saved all that emotional bluster for later. Could have been welcomed at first and gotten to learn a bit about the trill over the past centuries. Then we find the yellow chap plotting against them and delivering his speech about her being an abomination, with the red chap appearing to save them from death/forced separation. Then the final act would have been in the caves.

I always feel like this show doesn’t trust their audience and want to throw heavy emotion at us up front all the time to hook us in, like a CW show or something - when if there’s one audience you can trust to hang in there and appreciate a good narrative build it’s the Trek audience.

The writers ham up the emotions because there faux woke and also can’t write.

Rawr

~Rebel~ wrote: »

This ep was ok... I liked the idea of it more than the execution. Particularly on the planet, the pacing felt weird - everyone jumping straight into delivering their cultural point of view within seconds of them landing. I feel like all that could have been stretched out much longer and made more natural and interesting, and saved all that emotional bluster for later. Could have been welcomed at first and gotten to learn a bit about the trill over the past centuries. Then we find the yellow chap plotting against them and delivering his speech about her being an abomination, with the red chap appearing to save them from death/forced separation. Then the final act would have been in the caves.

I always feel like this show doesn’t trust their audience and want to throw heavy emotion at us up front all the time to hook us in, like a CW show or something - when if there’s one audience you can trust to hang in there and appreciate a good narrative build it’s the Trek audience.

I like your idea Rebel, it would have been better that way I feel.

I was somewhat disappointed with what they did with Trill. I do understand that productions have limitations with time & budget, and that my own imagination has a knack of building up things...but Trill was very clearly just some generic park they had access to and looked very "Earth-like".

They've done this back in the day with earlier Trek too, but something about Trill this time seemed somewhat phoned-in / lazy on the part of the producers. This was a core Federation world, and first re-contact with Starfleet and a joined Trill happens in someone's random garden? With only 5 or 6 Trill bothering to turn up? We do have those weird Trill-caves later, but all kind of felt underwhelming. I was initially excited that they were going to Trill....and then I really wasn't...

Interesting point about them not trusting the audience regarding emotion. Trek has had some moving moments over the years, and I get that they were trying to go for one here, but they just laid it on very thick. Too thickly I'm afraid. Overly tearful goodbyes and reunions are somewhat toothless when there's not much behind them. We don't really know Grey or Adria and they hadn't done the character development needed for us to really care yet. So it felt like a lot of emotional effort for no reward. They really need to get better at these scenes or just stop doing them.

The White Wolf

This episode and the preceding one made me realise the problem I have with the show; this episode was quite good when focusing on the story that they were trying to tell, but the constant pausing, smiling at each other and exclamations of "you're awesome, no, you're awesome" is so bloody irritating.

pixelburp

The show overall may constantly break the rule of "show don't tell" but I gave this episode a free pass this once given the episode tackled the PTSD of Discovery's time jump. Kinda makes sense in this case they would be more open in admitting folks are struggling. The little moment between Detmer and Culber at the end a nice capper on that.

I did laugh how Trek once again enjoys wallowing in early 20th century culture like it was the damn zenith of civilisation's cultural output. The more pragmatic answer is likely that the Buster Keaton stuff was public domain and so cheap to use, but I've always found it weird how frozen the universe's zeitgeist is. Bar the odd Klingon opera, everyone watches old crap from the early to mid 20th century.

I'm one episode behind the curve but this was one of the strongest episode of the show to date - there's just the small sense of the production finally getting to grips with itself. Notwithstanding the by now obvious contractual obligation to make Burnham the lead (or indeed having to use Michelle Yeoh, to no obvious benefit beyond said contractual necessity).

breezy1985

The White Wolf wrote: »

This episode and the preceding one made me realise the problem I have with the show; this episode was quite good when focusing on the story that they were trying to tell, but the constant pausing, smiling at each other and exclamations of "you're awesome, no, you're awesome" is so bloody irritating.

Its always been a ship crewed by insecure people. Watch how excited they all get when Pike tells em they are special when he meets them they are like school kids. Lorca and Clem Fandango were the only 2 with real interesting mental issues and they turned them into Scooby Doo villains the rest are all completely devoid of self confidence which might be Greta from a teen drama but these are supposed to be the finest of space sailors

Banana Republic 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGEdDBbeVYE

Sesshoumaru

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGEdDBbeVYE

Do fans really think the STD show creators are trying to 'fix the problematic past that is much too white and male' ?

pixelburp

It's not enough anymore to simply not like a Thing; the Thing has to be a strawman for whatever personally affronts you.

Banana Republic 1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Do fans really think the STD show creators are trying to 'fix the problematic past that is much too white and male' ?

Apparently so, there a 3 or for bloggers like this. I’d agree about male thing but the other stuff I’d have to disagree with. I think the calibre of writing on this show is just to poor to label it agenda driven.

mikhail

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Apparently so, there a 3 or for bloggers like this. I’d agree about male thing but the other stuff I’d have to disagree with. I think the calibre of writing on this show is just to poor to label it agenda driven.

I think they do have an agenda. I don't really have an issue with that if it's well done. It's not well done.

mikhail

mikhail wrote: »

I think they do have an agenda. I don't really have an issue with that if it's well done. It's not well done.

Trek should have an agenda. It should always try to hold a mirror up to society.
They are crap at it though

CramCycle

mikhail wrote: »

I think they do have an agenda. I don't really have an issue with that if it's well done. It's not well done.

The YouTubers agenda is to get clicks and get the money in. Nothing else. I haven't watched it but I can imagine the tripe it comes out with having seen similar style channels. It's why I prefer boards and similar to talk about such shows. I may not agree with much of what's said but at least it's not clickbait sh1te with a sole purpose to rile people for views.

Sesshoumaru

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Apparently so, there a 3 or for bloggers like this. I’d agree about male thing but the other stuff I’d have to disagree with. I think the calibre of writing on this show is just to poor to label it agenda driven.

I just watched a few minutes of his live stream. Kind of shocked a bit at his commentary on episode 5. I'm not sure why this guy is watching the TV show at this stage! But there must be audience for this kind content?

ilovesmybrick

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I just watched a few minutes of his live stream. Kind of shocked a bit at his commentary on episode 5. I'm not sure why this guy is watching the TV show at this stage! But there must be audience for this kind content?

He's one of a string of youtubers whose entire stick is beating on any new Star Trek. I've seen a few of his before, and a handful of others, and they seem to be the most miserable, angry Trek watchers. Honestly I think part of it is a bit they're doing for youtube to get clicks.

Banana Republic 1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trek should have an agenda. It should always try to hold a mirror up to society.
They are crap at it though

They are now anyway.

silverharp

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

He's one of a string of youtubers whose entire stick is beating on any new Star Trek. I've seen a few of his before, and a handful of others, and they seem to be the most miserable, angry Trek watchers. Honestly I think part of it is a bit they're doing for youtube to get clicks.

without good reason or with good reason? If we are talking about Nerdrotic , he likes The Expanse , and the Orville and I assume all the old Trek series so by all accounts would be positive to SiFi shows if they stand up

There are clear reasons to see std as a fatally flawed series, why shouldnt people review it so online?

Banana Republic 1

silverharp wrote: »

without good reason or with good reason? If we are talking about Nerdrotic , he likes The Expanse , and the Orville and I assume all the old Trek series so by all accounts would be positive to SiFi shows if they stand up

There are clear reasons to see std as a fatally flawed series, why shouldnt people review it so online?

I agree the show is terrible and I do watch his reviews after I watched shows but I think he goes to far with his opinions at times. He’d say his is being sarcastic but others get a other vibes.

CramCycle

silverharp wrote: »

without good reason or with good reason? If we are talking about Nerdrotic , he likes The Expanse , and the Orville and I assume all the old Trek series so by all accounts would be positive to SiFi shows if they stand up

There are clear reasons to see std as a fatally flawed series, why shouldnt people review it so online?

Because, presuming its like similar reviewers, they don't review the show, the writing, the set pieces, flow, storyline etc. They loosely link something that shouldn't be an issue and often isn't an issue in the show and use it to drive up clicks by offending or pulling in agreeable people. i mean some of the sh1t that these channels come out with. 2 POC in high up positions in the cast, must be a desperate nod to BLM or racism, rather than, it just so happens that 2 POC were the most suitable cast members. A few females in positions of power, clearly a nod to feminism rather than, they are simply characters that happen to be women. It's complete BS and if they were genuine fans, they wouldn't notice these non existent issues, they would just critique the pacing, the poor writing and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a buffoon, and in the modern world it is important that people from various backgrounds, genders, orientations, races etc. are seen in more positive and high up roles but in regards the actual show, this does not affect the show. I am a big fan of the idea, if you can see it, you can be it, but again, this is not ssomething that affects the quality of the show. Christ on a bike, some of the sh1t spouted online, as if it was a statistical anomaly that 2 POC would bump into each other if she had to meet someone (the issue here is that I would have thought bumping into a human first was the statistically unlikely thing), or that there would be a variety of sexes and sexual orientations. People who give out about this stuff only hold a mirror up to themselves and their own lackings, I refuse to line their pockets by clicking on their youtube videos anymore
I'll give kudos to discovery in that they have more varied background characters than I remember in any other trek show ie aliens. Which makes sense, I know humans breed like rabbits but I find it hard to believe that in every ship the federation has we are in the majority.

pixelburp

Negativity sells on YouTube; rants do well, especially these days with "counter programming" material that likes to scream and shout about SJWs or whatever. Listening to one YT creator I subscribe to (Jim Sterling), he has noted that his videos where he really lays into a topic always - always - get more hits than videos with a positive slant. People like complaining, and if they don't do it themselves will get off on watching others screaming about SJWs, spoilers, continuity errors or whatever perceived "outrage" exists in the current zeitgeist. Like CramCycle I refuse to give those kind of "content" creators their hits for simply producing white noise for the sake of stirring the pot.

I doubt half the creators even believe the shít they spout anyway: they just know that ranting about POC in Discovery gets hits from all those utterly perturbed by something so utterly trivial like a bit of inclusivity. They're the same as those Fox editorial presenters; it's all well and good snarking about "woke" this and that, but there's plenty of performative demagogues out there too.

breezy1985

silverharp wrote: »

without good reason or with good reason? If we are talking about Nerdrotic , he likes The Expanse , and the Orville and I assume all the old Trek series so by all accounts would be positive to SiFi shows if they stand up

There are clear reasons to see std as a fatally flawed series, why shouldnt people review it so online?

Does The Expanse ever get much flak online for it's casting. Quite often Holden and Amos are the only 2 white people and the idea that most of the human race is mixed race is a big part of The Expanse universe.

Also if they follow the books there should be a full polygamous crew coming into the show soon

silverharp

CramCycle wrote: »

Because, presuming its like similar reviewers, they don't review the show, the writing, the set pieces, flow, storyline etc. They loosely link something that shouldn't be an issue and often isn't an issue in the show and use it to drive up clicks by offending or pulling in agreeable people. i mean some of the sh1t that these channels come out with. 2 POC in high up positions in the cast, must be a desperate nod to BLM or racism, rather than, it just so happens that 2 POC were the most suitable cast members. A few females in positions of power, clearly a nod to feminism rather than, they are simply characters that happen to be women. It's complete BS and if they were genuine fans, they wouldn't notice these non existent issues, they would just critique the pacing, the poor writing and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a buffoon, and in the modern world it is important that people from various backgrounds, genders, orientations, races etc. are seen in more positive and high up roles but in regards the actual show, this does not affect the show. I am a big fan of the idea, if you can see it, you can be it, but again, this is not ssomething that affects the quality of the show. Christ on a bike, some of the sh1t spouted online, as if it was a statistical anomaly that 2 POC would bump into each other if she had to meet someone (the issue here is that I would have thought bumping into a human first was the statistically unlikely thing), or that there would be a variety of sexes and sexual orientations. People who give out about this stuff only hold a mirror up to themselves and their own lackings, I refuse to line their pockets by clicking on their youtube videos anymore
I'll give kudos to discovery in that they have more varied background characters than I remember in any other trek show ie aliens. Which makes sense, I know humans breed like rabbits but I find it hard to believe that in every ship the federation has we are in the majority.

you might end up straw manning or cherry picking the criticism of the show. No one has a problem with inclusion in the show, Star Trek has always done that. Where recent Trek has gone “woke” is, they cant do it without taking down the white male characters. Contrast with Voyager , Janeway’s character didn’t have to belittle the male characters to somehow make her look good. This Trek does though. My memory is fading of the earlier 2 seasons but you could sum it up as Burham barking at Pike for the entirety. The show just falls into every predictable but boring modern Hollywood trope that just make shows less watchable and only seems to please a minority

Apart from all that clearly whoever made this show had little knowledge or love of any of the Trek history apart from some plot synopsis so a lot of original fans are never going to get past that.

Rotten Tomatoes are giving this series a 50% viewer rating, which is by definition meh so its not pleasing the audience.

breezy1985

silverharp wrote: »

you might end up straw manning or cherry picking the criticism of the show. No one has a problem with inclusion in the show, Star Trek has always done that. Where recent Trek has gone “woke” is, they cant do it without taking down the white male characters. Contrast with Voyager , Janeway’s character didn’t have to belittle the male characters to somehow make her look good. This Trek does though. My memory is fading of the earlier 2 seasons but you could sum it up as Burham barking at Pike for the entirety. The show just falls into every predictable but boring modern Hollywood trope that just make shows less watchable and only seems to please a minority

Apart from all that clearly whoever made this show had little knowledge or love of any of the Trek history apart from some plot synopsis so a lot of original fans are never going to get past that.

Rotten Tomatoes are giving this series a 50% viewer rating, which is by definition meh so its not pleasing the audience.

How are the white male characters belittled on Trek?