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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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    #392
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm not interested in history. I'm interested in public works projects being delivered under the proper planning process, in a transparent way, under proper democratic scrutiny and participation and with clear budgetary oversight.


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    #393
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I'm not interested in history. I'm interested in public works projects being delivered under the proper planning process, in a transparent way, under proper democratic scrutiny and participation and with clear budgetary oversight.

    The consultation was pretty democratic. Pretty similar to the American election where the trump tried legal routes to block the will of the majority


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    #394
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    ted1 wrote: »
    The consultation was pretty democratic. Pretty similar to the American election where the trump tried legal routes to block the will of the majority

    Lazy Ted, lazy.

    We talked about this yesterday. Hazel Chu herself said at the most recent Area Committee meeting that she considered the input from locals should be weighted above those making submissions about the cycleway from Donegal or Cork, or Ulan Bator. Yet she is happy for the so-called trial to proceed without that weighting having happened.

    The City Council itself holds formal plebiscites when it comes to extending paid parking controls. Thats democratic. As you say yourself, what happened in the Strand Road and Beach Road cases was only pretty democratic.


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    #395
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Lazy Ted, lazy.

    We talked about this yesterday. Hazel Chu herself said at the most recent Area Committee meeting that she considered the input from locals should be weighted above those making submissions about the cycleway from Donegal or Cork, or Ulan Bator. Yet she is happy for the so-called trial to proceed without that weighting having happened.

    The City Council itself holds formal plebiscites when it comes to extending paid parking controls. Thats democratic. As you say yourself, what happened in the Strand Road and Beach Road cases was only pretty democratic.
    She’s says a lot of stuff. Lost any respect for her. When she openly accused the Gardai of racism. ( what happened to her after wasn’t right either )

    Localism has no problem in place in a city where people commute. There lots of stakeholders involved.
    What’s the definition of a local ? Some one within a 5 Km radius ?
    Someone born in the area? Someone who commutes through it? Someone who works there? Someone rents there? Someone who has property but rents it out ? Someone who goes to school ?


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    #396
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Someone being one vote for every household within a cordon of neighbourhoods likely to be affected by the displacement of traffic caused by blocking one direction of traffic on a designated regional route. Thats how plebiscites currently work.

    If it were up to me, I'd hold a plebiscite of all residents east of Merrion Road from Merrion gates as far as the Canal and back east to include Irishtown and Ringsend as far as the River.


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    #397
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Someone within a cordon of neighbourhoods likely to be affected by the displacement of traffic caused by blocking one direction of traffic on a designated regional route.

    If it were up to me, I'd hold a plebiscite of all residents east of Merrion Road from Merrion gates as far as Canal and back to include Irishtown and Ringsend as far as the River.

    What about all the other stakeholders? It’s a capital city.

    Would locals not want gates put at all access routes and keep all the riff raff out.


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    #398
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    People in Greystones should vote for the DART to skip Sandymount, Sydney Parade and Lansdowne Rd in a plebiscite. Stopping at those stations slows down their journeys.


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    #399
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    donvito99 wrote: »
    People in Greystones should vote for the DART to skip Sandymount, Sydney Parade and Lansdowne Rd in a plebiscite. Stopping at those stations slows down their journeys.

    Well a half dozen residents in Raneleagh blocked the metro upgrade. Which was planned when the LUAS was built


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    #400
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,113 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    People were going nuts over car restrictions in the Phoenix Park saying the park shouldn't only be for locals. Now the same people are saying locals should have the final say on another project.
    I will never be rich enough to live in Sandymount or its surrounds but I still visit that area regularly and go to a gym there, there's no room for that level of localism in the running of a city.


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    #401
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Someone being one vote for every household within a cordon of neighbourhoods likely to be affected by the displacement of traffic caused by blocking one direction of traffic on a designated regional route. Thats how plebiscites currently work.

    If it were up to me, I'd hold a plebiscite of all residents east of Merrion Road from Merrion gates as far as the Canal and back east to include Irishtown and Ringsend as far as the River.

    Displacement of traffic is only one aspect of proposed changes but it's telling that you see it as the only one worth voting on.


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    #402
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,619 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Someone being one vote for every household within a cordon of neighbourhoods likely to be affected by the displacement of traffic caused by blocking one direction of traffic on a designated regional route. Thats how plebiscites currently work.

    If it were up to me, I'd hold a plebiscite of all residents east of Merrion Road from Merrion gates as far as the Canal and back east to include Irishtown and Ringsend as far as the River.

    One vote per house how very undemocratic. James Craig would be very proud of you


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    #403
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    One vote per house how very undemocratic. James Craig would be very proud of you

    Its a plebiscite not an election.


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    #404
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,113 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    If we were to operate in that way, we wouldn't have an M50, a Luas, the new runway at the airport...


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    #405
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,619 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Its a plebiscite not an election.

    So what. Everyone who will be affected should get a vote not just one person per house and by everyone all the workers should get a vote too if they use the road to get into the area


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    #406
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I'm not interested in history. I'm interested in public works projects being delivered under the proper planning process, in a transparent way, under proper democratic scrutiny and participation and with clear budgetary oversight.

    As we have already established, this above is merely a screen under which you (the collective you) get to object to things you don't personally like.


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    #407
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    MojoMaker wrote: »
    As we have already established, this above is merely a screen under which you (the collective you) get to object to things you don't personally like.

    Exactly as happened with the Educate Together schools in Sandymount.

    I’d like to know whose pocket is being lined with the funds they are raising. It all seems to be about money now and gathering as much as possible.


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    #408
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,973 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't want the plebiscite at all lads, I want the Part 8. It was Hazel Chu that agreed a weighting ought to be given to locals in the non statutory consultation and then shrugged when it didn't happen.

    I'm in an echo chamber of obtuse cycling zealotry here, so I'm going to step out for the most part until the pending actions have run their course and let the planning board and the courts decide which of us is right.

    Try not to be too disappointed if the "trial" doesn't come to pass. If anything, the silver lining might be that it could compel the various authorities and agencies to get serious about some joined up thinking and comprehensive solutions, through the appropriate planning process, rather than this disjointed experimental nonsense, the kind of thing that Mr O'Brien was even forced to concede is "unorthodox".


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    #409
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    "Larbre34 wrote: »
    I'm in an echo chamber of obtuse cycling zealotry here, so I'm going to step out for the most part until the pending actions have run their course and let the planning board and the courts decide which of us is right.

    It has been six weeks and there's still no section 5 referral by Sandymount residents on An Bord Pleanála's website. Still waiting for the much anticipated actions to start. It's been all threats so far.


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    #410
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Peregrine wrote: »
    It has been six weeks and there's still no section 5 referral by Sandynount residents on An Bord Pleanála's website. Still waiting for the much anticipated actions to start. It's been all threats so far.
    Correction: It's been all well-funded threats so far.


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    #411
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    .... a weighting ought to be given to locals in the non statutory consultation.

    Thats not how it works
    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I'm in an echo chamber of obtuse cycling zealotry here

    Welcome to the Cycling forum
    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I'm going to step out for the most part until the pending actions have run their course and let the planning board and the courts decide which of us is right.

    The suspense......dun! dun! dun!!!
    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Try not to be too disappointed if the "trial" doesn't come to pass.

    Again, welcome to the Cycling forum. LA's & NIMBY's have been spreading disappointment here for years. This project has brought a ray of hope for the future of cycling infrastructure. Many here are hoping other councils follow suit.
    Larbre34 wrote: »
    If anything, the silver lining might be that it could compel the various authorities and agencies to get serious about some joined up thinking and comprehensive solutions, through the appropriate planning process, rather than this disjointed experimental nonsense, the kind of thing that Mr O'Brien was even forced to concede is "unorthodox".

    Or show them that they have the full legal basis to continue on unabated across the length and breadth of the country, implementing protected cycling infrastructure everywhere and reducing motor traffic to the lowest priority in terms of mobility, behind pedestrians, cyclists & buses, in that order.


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    #412
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    If anything, the silver lining might be that it could compel the various authorities and agencies to get serious about some joined up thinking and comprehensive solutions

    As long as all that joined up thinking doesn't result in something you (collective again) don't like.


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    #413
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,117 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    when the incinerator was being proposed there were lots of objections centered around the argument that the Strand road would resemble airfield runways during the Berlin airlift. Suddenly the yoke went up and silence after, and nothing anyone would notice in terms of truck volume

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #414
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    silverharp wrote: »
    when the incinerator was being proposed there were lots of objections centered around the argument that the Strand road would resemble airfield runways during the Berlin airlift. Suddenly the yoke went up and silence after, and nothing anyone would notice in terms of truck volume

    A friend attended a local community meeting to object to the incinerator. He was amazed by the number of objectors rushing out for their smoke at the end of the meeting.


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    #415
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,113 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    How the hell did they get that incinerator built there? Ruining the view of so many affluent Sandymount bürgers?
    I'd say most of them would take another plant being built there rather than have their driving in any way restricted.


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    #416
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,491 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    How the hell did they get that incinerator built there? Ruining the view of so many affluent Sandymount bürgers?
    I'd say most of them would take another plant being built there rather than have their driving in any way restricted.

    You’ve got a poo factory, an incinerator, cement store and 2 power plants. Wouldn’t fancy living on the bottle site.


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    #417
    PaulieC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,193 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    silverharp wrote: »
    when the incinerator was being proposed there were lots of objections centered around the argument that the Strand road would resemble airfield runways during the Berlin airlift. Suddenly the yoke went up and silence after, and nothing anyone would notice in terms of truck volume

    The incinerator came with bags of cash for all local clubs and businesses. Hard to loudly object when your club is getting a million quid for a new clubhouse. It doesn't matter if the money is coming, in a very roundabout way, from the local's own pockets.


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    #418
    brucky
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭brucky


    Will it be open in March or will they be commencing works?


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    #419
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,117 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    fly in the ointment?

    https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1362399104995885059

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #420
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,072 ✭✭✭buffalo


    You may remember Peter Carvill from the staggeringly long letter to the IT last year: https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/closure-of-strand-road-to-northbound-traffic-1.4436309


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    #421
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    silverharp wrote: »
    fly in the ointment?

    https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1362399104995885059

    Local naysayer councillor Mannix Flynn and Fianna Fáil anti-abortion activist Peter Carvill. Interesting. Where are the other opponents? The ones who raised the money?


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