Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

tomasrojo

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't a clue, I'm on the other side of the country

Just asking out of interest. It looks very good.

AndrewJRenko

First Up wrote: »

My source was Dublin City Council data that shows about 6,000 cyclists in the city centre at commuting times out of about 65,000 cyclists. No figures shown for Strand Rd but I somehow doubt it passed 34,000 a day.

What's your source for leisure motorists on Strand Rd?

I made it up, just like you did about cycling, given that the figures you quoted say nothing about leisure cyclists and nothing about Strand Road.

First Up

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I made it up, just like you did about cycling, given that the figures you quoted say nothing about leisure cyclists and nothing about Strand Road.

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

AndrewJRenko

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

You made it up. It is nonsense.

Seaswimmer

tomasrojo wrote: »

Just asking out of interest. It looks very good.

Blackrock is probably slightly different to the Strand Road scheme in that over 76% of submissions were positive so DLR council seemed to be pushing an open door. The entire infrastructure changes from Blackrock village to Sandycove would appear to be very successful and apart from a few serial complainers on various Facebook groups seem to have been accepted by most people.
Apart from Blackrock there has been extensive village improvement schemes in Monkstown, Dalkey and Glasthule and the seafront in Dun Laoghaire is thriving.
I feel the Sandymount residents are missing a trick in that anyone out for a cycle from say Booterstown to Dalkey will naturally drop in to Blackrock/Monkstown/Dun Laoire/Glasthule for a break and a coffee and/or bit of food.
If the Sandymount cycle lane was in place I would imagine Sandymount village would get a big increase in footfall especially at weekends and during holidays. Cycle along the seafront, have a walk on the beach and up to the village for refreshments.

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

You're really doing your best to scrape through the bottom of that barrell there :rolleyes:

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

Can you elucidate a little further. What do you mean 65000 cyclists? The total number of cyclists in Dublin? Why does the number in the city centre indicate the non-leisure cyclists?

I would have thought that the majority of cyclists in the city centre on any given weekday are unlikely to be leisure cyclists in any meaningful fashion, they will, in the majority be commuters (work, university, school), shoppers and people actually working.

First Up

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You made it up. It is nonsense.

Well you could look it up yourself but I know you don't like facts getting in the way.

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

Well you could look it up yourself but I know you don't like facts getting in the way.

Says the person who has some figures but decides to twist them to suit your argument :rolleyes:

First Up

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You're really doing your best to scrape through the bottom of that barrell there :rolleyes:

You mean dragging up facts produced by a website that promotes itself as independent journalism covering cycling in Ireland?

Yes, shame on me.

CramCycle

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

If you are trying to extrapolate from a piece of data about the % of commuters that are cyclists how many cyclists in Dublin actually commute by bike, I have to wonder how your thought process is working here. Or are you actually living in Dublin. Monday to Friday within the county of Dublin, not just the city, anyone who thinks the majority of cyclists on the road are leisure cyclists has to have some serious blinkers on. I imagine you actually have your reasoning backwards, most commuting or practical cyclists don't commute for leisure the majority of the time. While admittedly this forum will be biased the other way with a few exceptions, in the real world, most cyclists are cyclists for practical reasons.

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

You mean dragging up facts produced by a website that promotes itself as independent journalism covering cycling in Ireland?

Yes, shame on me.

What indy journo website says "Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage." about those figures

AndrewJRenko

First Up wrote: »

Well you could look it up yourself but I know you don't like facts getting in the way.

There are no figures to look up showing the percentage of leisure journeys for cyclists.

This might be a good time to stop digging.

First Up

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What indy journo website says "Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage." about those figures

That's my own conclusion and based on the percentage of commuters who cycle, it is a perfectly reasonable one.

But feel free to share if you have an interpretation that says most cycling is not for leisure.

First Up

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are no figures to look up showing the percentage of leisure journeys for cyclists.

This might be a good time to stop digging.

Good grief. You challenged my statement that most cycling is for leisure. I produced data that shows conclusively that it is and you tell me to stop digging?

Seaswimmer

silverharp wrote: »

Comparing Blackrock to Sandymount would suggest blocking off the Green and the village to traffic and seeing the Strand road as the "bypass". I'd be on for that. It would open up space for proper outside dining etc.

That is an excellent idea.. It would create a village atmosphere while also providing relatively quiet roads for cycling. Although I am sure you will get the " I cant drive and park right outside Tesco anymore" objections.
And where would we go when Strand Road is busy if we cant rat run through the village anymore..

I think the really sad part about all this is as numerous people have pointed out....It was only going to be a trial. if it dosent work out then go back to the original layout and think about another plan. But now we will never know.
All objectors should really go from Blackrock to Sandycove and back on a bike and then see what they could have.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

I would have thought that the majority of cyclists in the city centre on any given weekday are unlikely to be leisure cyclists in any meaningful fashion, they will, in the majority be commuters (work, university, school), shoppers and people actually working.

Oh yeah, I can understand the treating the cyclists in Dublin as largely non-leisure (though there are also tourists on hire bikes, for example), but commuters going into the city centre are not the only non-leisure cyclists was the train of thought I was following. I've often worked outside the city centre and cycled there. I collect the kids from school in the afternoon, and that's not in the city centre, or peak travel time.

I don't really see the logic of the original claim.

ted1

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

No, because those 7.6% make ten journeys a week. Where as the leisure cyclists may make only 1. So commuters make up the biggest users.

“Mainly ‘ is also used. I know people that drive 3 days and cycle 2 days. So they don’t show up, as they are classed as drivers

tomasrojo

ted1 wrote: »

No, because those 7.6% make ten journeys a week. Where as the leisure cyclists may make only 1. So commuters make up the biggest users.

“Mainly ‘ is also used. I know people that drive 3 days and cycle 2 days. So they don’t show up, as they are classed as drivers

Yeah, if you commute daily (and commuting as I said already is not the only non-leisure cycling activity), you probably clock up an average of five hours a week cycling commuting. Club cyclists I guess can do more than five hours a week cycling at the weekend, but most cyclists aren't in clubs.

I clock up about twenty hours a week cycling, and close to zero of that is leisure in a typical week.

Weepsie

First Up wrote: »

My source was Dublin City Council data that shows about 6,000 cyclists in the city centre at commuting times out of about 65,000 cyclists. No figures shown for Strand Rd but I somehow doubt it passed 34,000 a day.

What's your source for leisure motorists on Strand Rd?

I really hope you don't work in any sort of job that requires accurate use of data to make any decision, important or otherwise.

A few things.

• Not everyone works in the city.
• City centre also has a lot of places that require flexible working hours, ie retail etc, plus students are commuting at all times of day.

There were circa 1200 commuter journeys by bike in 2018 during rush hour on the quays. There was about 2200 car journeys on the quays. But if you're saying there are 6000 in the city at commuting times (not everyone works in the city by the way) lets say there are 6 times the amount of cars as those measure too, 12000, out of how many 100s of thousands in the city?

Therefore, if I may, use your absolute nonsense logic, 100s of thousands of car journeys and the vast majority are for leisure?

Am i doing this right?

tomasrojo

Also if I cycle into town to watch a film or go to the pub or to buy something that isn't food or clothing, is that a leisure trip? Or is a leisure trip when the cycling trip itself is the pastime, rather than the means of getting to the pastime?

First Up

First Up wrote: »

Good grief. You challenged my statement that most cycling is for leisure. I produced data that shows conclusively that it is and you tell me to stop digging?

Actually you produced a figure showing one thing and you made a guess off that.

Your guess has no basis in reality and can not be backed up by any raw data. If it could you would link to actual data.

Using your logic, would this statement be deemed accurate or just plain stupid: "drivers who drive outside of rush hour are leisure drivers"

CramCycle

Before joining a club a few years ago, 100% of my cycling was functional, I worked odd hours as I had two jobs but very little of it would have been at traditional commuter times. I cycled to the shops, to the pub, to the cinema. Most of my friends at that age done the same or went by DB or taxi, only a few drove daily. I probably cleared 50km a day without issue. Most of the cyclists I meet on my commute now and then are clearly on their way to or from work or a social gathering, although the latter might make it leisure cycling. Like Tomasrojo, I am confused as to whether leisure cycling in this context is that the cycle is the primary activity or does it also include cycling to a leisure activity. If its the former I would estimate based on observations of 20 years cycling in Dublin, nearly all of it in the very areas being discussed that very little is leisure cycling.

Peregrine

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

That's not extrapolating from solid data. That's called making stuff up from solid data.

Kaisr Sose

Same cycleway infastructure featuring on Nationwide now

secman

A piece on Nationwide now

AndrewJRenko

First Up wrote: »

Good grief. You challenged my statement that most cycling is for leisure. I produced data that shows conclusively that it is and you tell me to stop digging?

The data you used tells you diddly squat about the purpose of the cyclist journeys.

You made it up.

I wonder if this tweet is for you?

https://twitter.com/yascaoimhin/status/1366440708710821888?s=19

buffalo

First Up wrote: »

Most cycling along Strand Rd is (and will be) a leisure activity. That's what the cycle path is intended to encourage and facilitate.

It will replace some sitting on couches but not many necessary car journeys. It will just divert them.

How many of these are leisure cyclists? And while we're on the topic, how many are leisure walkers?

https://twitter.com/robertburns73/status/1366047421931864076

First Up

tomasrojo wrote:

I don't really see the logic of the original claim.

The Strand Rd section is part of a cycle route from Sutton to Sandycove. Looking at the map, does that strike you as a route for many people going to work?

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

The Strand Rd section is part of a cycle route from Sutton to Sandycove. Looking at the map, does that strike you as a route for many people going to work?

Are people only allowed to cycle the entire length or not at all?

(At least try come up with a plausible argument rather than the ill-informed nonsense you've been posting all day)