Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Trudee

Some time back another poster mentioned 'bully' and was told by moderator that they weren't allowed to post to this site, as a newcomer to this forum it would seem like a 'pack' descends on anybody who may have a differing view, it's good to hear all sides with respect.

First Up

buffalo wrote:

Again, showing your ignorance here. DCC investigated this already and included their findings in the update on the Strand Road Cycle route:

The level crossing at Merrion Gates is closed for approx 20 minutes per hour at peak commuting times. Traffic is able to cope with that.

And anyway won't loads of those evil cars just evaporate as they are supposed to?

yascaoimhin

Trudee wrote: »

Some time back another poster mentioned 'bully' and was told by moderator that they weren't allowed to post to this site, as a newcomer to this forum it would seem like a 'pack' descends on anybody who may have a differing view, it's good to hear all sides with respect.

You're literally sharing your differing view. It just so happens that lots of people disagree with you for multiple reasons and are presenting why.

By referring to people who disagree with you as a "pack" you're dismissing their opinion as merely the same one repeated and championing yours as unique.

Just because you hold an opinion that is different to what the majority in a group hold doesn't mean yours is special or more likely to be right.

First Up

Weepsie wrote:

You're making stuff up

Just broadening your horizons pal.

yascaoimhin

First Up wrote: »

The level crossing at Merrion Gates is closed for approx 20 minutes per hour at peak commuting times. Traffic is able to cope with that.

And anyway won't loads of those evil cars just evaporate as they are supposed to?

Merrion Gates is due to close completely under DART+ by 2027

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1311975323031015425?s=20

Fighting Tao

First Up wrote: »

Just different parts of it. I am pointing out consequences and implications that obviously hadn't occurred to you.

You pointed out nothing at all....zero...zilch....nada.

First Up

Trudee wrote:

Some time back another poster mentioned 'bully' and was told by moderator that they weren't allowed to post to this site, as a newcomer to this forum it would seem like a 'pack' descends on anybody who may have a differing view, it's good to hear all sides with respect.

I've crossed swords with the cyclistas before. I know what to expect. When they get outraged at suggestions they light up at night you know what you are dealing with.

magicbastarder

Trudee wrote: »

Some time back another poster mentioned 'bully' and was told by moderator that they weren't allowed to post to this site, as a newcomer to this forum it would seem like a 'pack' descends on anybody who may have a differing view, it's good to hear all sides with respect.

that's actually not how it happened, but please, back on topic.

Grassey

First Up wrote:

Another way to safely accommodate cyclists would be a 300 meter single lane section on that part of the road with traffic lights controlling alternate flows. It takes a couple of minutes at most to cycle 300 meters. Motorists wait their turn and so do cyclists.

First Up wrote:

Cheap to install, no planning permission, no risk to the biosphere; some delays to traffic

Wasn't this exactly what the trial was meant to be... Cheap to install, no planning permission, no risk to biosphere

Seth Brundle

yascaoimhin wrote: »

Merrion Gates is due to close completely under DART+ by 2027

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1311975323031015425?s=20

But what about all those people who want to travel to the East Link Bridge?

Thelonious Monk

Is this Merrion Gates thing I always hear of where the Dart crosses and the things have to come down?
They're getting rid of that? How? A flyover or something? Surely the locals wouldn't put up with any disturbance?
Will they get rid of the one at Sandymount Dart too?

Trudee

Actually I was referring to the responses to First Up

yascaoimhin

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Is this Merrion Gates thing I always hear of where the Dart crosses and the things have to come down?
They're getting rid of that? How? A flyover or something? Surely the locals wouldn't put up with any disturbance?
Will they get rid of the one at Sandymount Dart too?

Who knows at this stage but the future DART service is being delivered under the assumption that there will be no more level crossings in urban Dublin.

They might lower the line, they might just close the road and make it a cul de sac with an underpass for bikes and people.

tomasrojo

First Up wrote: »

I'll let the howls of outrage from MAMILS subside before advising Mr Keegan how to keep (nearly) everyone happy.

First Up wrote: »

Just broadening your horizons pal.

First Up wrote: »

I've crossed swords with the cyclistas before. I know what to expect. When they get outraged at suggestions they light up at night you know what you are dealing with.

Not sure to what extent you were arguing in good faith before, but this is just boilerplate invective now.

Trudee

yascaoimhin wrote: »

You're literally sharing your differing view. It just so happens that lots of people disagree with you for multiple reasons and are presenting why.

By referring to people who disagree with you as a "pack" you're dismissing their opinion as merely the same one repeated and championing yours as unique.

Just because you hold an opinion that is different to what the majority in a group hold doesn't mean yours is special or more likely to be right.

Actually I was referring to responses to First Up

First Up

tomasrojo wrote: »

Not sure to what extent you were arguing in good faith before, but this is just boilerplate invective now.

Compared to the abuse thrown at me I am handing out daisy chains.

tomasrojo

First Up wrote: »

Compared to the abuse thrown at me I am handing out daisy chains.

I think people have been making fun of you, but that is because your ideas are inconsistent and poorly thought through, and apparently don't even have the benefit of local knowledge.

I don't have much local knowledge of this issue either, but I haven't commented on that aspect, while you've been about two days at it now.

Thelonious Monk

yascaoimhin wrote: »

they might just close the road and make it a cul de sac with an underpass for bikes and people.

lol imagine the uproar

DoraDelite

Trudee wrote: »

Actually I was referring to responses to First Up

First Up got valid constructive responses to his/her increasingly wild assertions on journeys from Southside to Northside and did not address any of the responses.

I'm now led to believe that Fáilte Ireland should be touting the East Link as a tourist hotspot as First Up seems to think this is a destination for all Strand Road traffic.

yascaoimhin

Trudee wrote: »

Actually I was referring to responses to First Up

My mistake. Apologies.

buffalo

First Up wrote: »

The level crossing at Merrion Gates is closed for approx 20 minutes per hour at peak commuting times. Traffic is able to cope with that.

Here's a link to the results of the study - you can tell me what aspects are incorrect: https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/strand-road-trial-cycle-route/results/updateonstrandroadcycleroute.pptx (14MB pptx)

First Up wrote: »

And anyway won't loads of those evil cars just evaporate as they are supposed to?

Have you ever experienced slow Internet as opposed to no Internet? With no Internet, people go find something else to do. With slow Internet, people keep using it, but just get increasingly frustrated.

You might also observe this phenomenon at rush hour on any number of congested roads across Dublin, as frustrated drivers get angry because their progress is so slow.

Seaswimmer

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think people have been making fun of you, but that is because your ideas are inconsistent and poorly thought through, and apparently don't even have the benefit of local knowledge.

I don't have much local knowledge of this issue either, but I haven't commented on that aspect, while you've been about two days at it now.

I have extensive local knowledge of Strand Road having cycled it 10 times a week for 15 years and driving it about 4 or 6 times a week at present. I think Ted1 on here has similar experience. However I doubt we even have an idea what will happen if we go ahead with cycle lanes. And I doubt if anyone else does either. All we have are some metrics from DCC with regard to projected traffic volumes in the surrounding areas.
Hence the really good idea for a 6 month trial!!

First Up

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think people have been making fun of you, but that is because your ideas are inconsistent and poorly thought through, and apparently don't even have the benefit of local knowledge.

I don't have much local knowledge of this issue either, but I haven't commented on that aspect, while you've been about two days at it now.

I hope they are enjoying themselves 'cos I am, but which bits of my posts are inconsistent?

I am pointing out the negative consequences of closing Strand Rd to inbound traffic and I get a kaleidoscope of weird responses. Its hard to respond to those without visiting a few of the distant planets my adversaries seem to inhabit.

Seaswimmer

First Up wrote: »

I hope they are enjoying themselves 'cos I am, but which bits of my posts are inconsistent?

I am pointing out the negative consequences of closing Strand Rd to inbound traffic and I get a kaleidoscope of weird responses. Its hard to respond to those without visiting a few of the distant planets my adversaries seem to inhabit.

But you don't know what the negative consequences are.. You can only guess. No more than I know what the positive consequences will be. I can only guess too.
A 6 month trial would give us the answers.

Suffice to say that government transport policy worldwide is to reduce or eliminate private car use in cities so you are going to be fighting a rearguard action for the foreseeable future..

First Up

Seaswimmer wrote: »

But you don't know what the negative consequences are.. You can only guess. No more than I know what the positive consequences will be. I can only guess too.
A 6 month trial would give us the answers.

Suffice to say that government transport policy worldwide is to reduce or eliminate private car use in cities so you are going to be fighting a rearguard action for the foreseeable future..

Of course a trial would help but it matters what they are trialing. Shutting Strand Rd to in bound traffic without any apparent steps to deal with consequences is neither planning or trialing. Its abdicating responsibility and a genuflection to ideology.

A six month trial over the summer will give a picture of cyclist traffic and I expect and hope the path is widely used. That's great but what measures will be taken of the impact on others, from people with business in the port to kids on tricycles in Sandymount? From the DCC CEO's dismissive and flippant remarks (true to form) I suspect they won't give a hoot.

I hope the action by Mannix Flynn (let's all BOO) puts manners on Keegan and better still, prompts ways to be found to subject his cavalier attitude to scrutiny and checks.

I don't get why people assume being in favour blocking off one road would mean you are in favour of more traffic in another area?

Sandymount could be much improved if traffic was discouraged from entering the residential streets and village center, parking removed and traffic calming measures introduced.

At the moment the village green often looks like a dumping ground for SUVs. The status quo is a helluva drug.

First Up

ronoc wrote: »

I don't get why people assume being in favour blocking off one road would mean you are in favour of more traffic in another area?

Its not that they are in favour of it. Its just that they either haven't thought about it, or don't care either way.

Seaswimmer

First Up wrote: »

Of course a trial would help but it matters what they are trialing. Shutting Strand Rd to in bound traffic without any apparent steps to deal with consequences is neither planning or trialing. Its abdicating responsibility and a genuflection to ideology.

A six month trial over the summer will give a picture of cyclist traffic and I expect and hope the path is widely used. That's great but what measures will be taken of the impact on others, from people with business in the port to kids on tricycles in Sandymount? From the DCC CEO's dismissive and flippant remarks (true to form) I suspect they won't give a hoot.

I hope the action by Mannix Flynn (let's all BOO) puts manners on Keegan and better still, prompts ways to be found to subject his cavalier attitude to scrutiny and checks.

But the trial needs to be inexpensive (relatively), implemented quickly and discontinued quickly if required. The other suggestions such as boardwalks and promenade extensions would be very slow to implement and extremely expensive so not ideal for a short trial.. So the Strand road cycle lane proposal is ideal to try out for a short period.
I know you will say it is not comparable but the Blackrock to Sandycove cycle lane is being trialled on the same basis. The resistance to it was huge initially but only a small minority of people now would appear to be still opposed to it and it seems to be extremely successful.

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

Compared to the abuse thrown at me I am handing out daisy chains.

If you feel that you have been given abuse then feel free to report the offending post by clicking the image to the left of the post.

However, I'd refrain from using this kind of terminology if you plan on using the abuse card...

First Up wrote: »

Its hard to respond to those without visiting a few of the distant planets my adversaries seem to inhabit.

First Up

Seaswimmer wrote:

But the trial needs to be inexpensive (relatively), implemented quickly and discontinued quickly if required. The other suggestions such as boardwalks and promenade extensions would be very slow to implement and extremely expensive so not ideal for a short trial.. So the Strand road cycle lane proposal is ideal to try out for a short period. I know you will say it is not comparable but the Blackrock to Sandycove cycle lane is being trialled on the same basis. The resistance to it was huge initially but only a small minority of people now would appear to be still opposed to it and it seems to be extremely successful.

But the trial has to check what matters, not just count bicycles. The current plan will impact a lot of things over a wide area. The boardwalk doesn't need trialing because like Clontarf, it doesn't impact on the roads.

Blackrock to Sandycove is in the outer suburbs with little affect on commercial activity or traffic volume. Strand Rd is much more complicated.