Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

eeeee

People cycling through there is also a problem. I never do, it's nothing to go round the streets to the park, but you get people on bikes coming through and buggies, older people etc having to wait for them to go by. It's completely unnecessary to cycle through that narrow gap.

buffalo

Effects wrote: »

I passed through that stretch last night. Last year someone nicknamed it Covid Alley.
I had heard that there's an old Georgian folly located the far side of the wall, that's protected. And that's the reason it hasn't been expanded.
It's a bit of a joke though. Two bikes can barely pass each other. But I met a buggy coming through yesterday, so had to back up to let them through.

The folly isn't protected, but the house is. The entry in the RPS doesn't explicitly mention the gardens and the folly, but they could be included as being integral to the architectural or heritage value of the house.

Seaswimmer

eeeee wrote: »

People cycling through there is also a problem. I never do, it's nothing to go round the streets to the park, but you get people on bikes coming through and buggies, older people etc having to wait for them to go by. It's completely unnecessary to cycle through that narrow gap.

I agree but a lack of familiarity with the area naturally leads you to that route, especially coming from town.
Going towards town there is no other easy way to access the park by bike unless you dismount (and walk up towards the main gate) or enter the park further down (near Blackrock clinic) which kind of defeats the purpose of an off road route.

nomdeboardie

eeeee wrote: »

People cycling through there is also a problem. I never do, it's nothing to go round the streets to the park, but you get people on bikes coming through and buggies, older people etc having to wait for them to go by. It's completely unnecessary to cycle through that narrow gap.

I wait until the lane is empty before entering, and then usually cycle to minimise the chance of encountering anyone entering before I exit! If someone does enter while I'm there, I dismount and I plaster myself and bike against the wall, facing the wall, as they pass

TheW1zard

There are signs for cyclists to dismount

nomdeboardie

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Interesting. I heard (anecdotally) that there was a burial ground on the other side of that wall and that was the reason for the decades long struggle to widen the path. Not sure if it was for pets or humans or if it is even true. But brilliant if they get it widened.

Temple/memorial for a former inhabitant, though don't know if remains are interred there, or if it has any significance for current owners (though I can imagine there might be discomfort at the idea of dismantling/removing it.
https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/deepwell-of-laughter-and-tears-29297147.html

loyatemu

TheW1zard wrote: »

There are signs for cyclists to dismount

that just makes you wider!

Macy0161

loyatemu wrote: »

that just makes you wider!

When it was my commuter route, I generally soft pedaled through and put a foot down if passing. That was pre-covid, old normal commuter volumes. But the same logic, me plus bike with pannier bags was wider than me on the bike.

MojoMaker

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Temple/memorial for a former inhabitant, though don't know if remains are interred there, or if it has any significance for current owners (though I can imagine there might be discomfort at the idea of dismantling/removing it.
https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/deepwell-of-laughter-and-tears-29297147.html

Nice article. I can see that folly/mausoleum at the end of the beautiful gardens on Google Earth. It's very impressive.

eeeee

Paper on covid implemented infrastructure and it's affect on communities: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/15/e2024399118.
I haven't read the whole thing, but a quick look indicates that two plus two does indeed equal four.

is_that_so

Just saw this on the Sandymount cycleway.

Dublin City Council has itself decided that work on the Sandymount cycleway is does not need planning permission, the High Court has been told.

The fact that the council took this decision itself is said to have surprised objectors to the project.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/objectors-surprised-sandymount-cycleway-does-not-need-planning-permission-1.4545035

tomasrojo

Given the large amount of paperwork it was possible the two days set aside for the hearing may not be enough, counsel said.

Mr Justice Meenan said the case was “getting no more than two days” and he would, if necessary, put down time limits for the parties to make their cases.

- We'd like to take up as much time as possible
- No

Larbre34

Nothing new in that. We knew the Council had taken a decision, albeit informed by a Consultant's input, that the proposed on-road cycle route was exempt development. The third party referral to An Bord Pleanála on this point has yet to see an outcome.

Of far more interest in recent developments concerning DCC, is the imminent collapse of the 30 km/h default speed limit consultation, as Keegan admits promoting the Love 30 campaign on one hand and purporting to run an impartial consultation as the local authority on the other, are incompatible and without credibility. Seems to me he's throwing his own Traffic people under the bus (appropriately enough) before abandoning the idea as well. Probably a sensible move as losing another Council vote on the matter in less than 12 months would leave his executive position very much in question.

yascaoimhin

Larbre34 wrote: »

Nothing new in that. We knew the Council had taken a decision, albeit informed by a Consultant's input,

That is false. The Council came to the conclusion itself that the scheme is exempt development, they reached that conclusion over 6 months ago.

It is only when STC in early 2021 started to complain about the Environmental impact that the Council sought the view of an independent third party to clarify if an EIA was required. They said no it was not required.

Effects

buffalo wrote: »

The folly isn't protected, but the house is. The entry in the RPS doesn't explicitly mention the gardens and the folly, but they could be included as being integral to the architectural or heritage value of the house.

A protected structure usually also extends to the curtilage, which is perhaps where the confusion came from.

I had a brief look, and it seems there's interest in developing apartments on the site, which is perhaps why the owners might be against giving up any land.

But you'd think the government wouldn't have an issue paying a high price to acquire it, given their history of overspending on numerous projects.

eeeee

eeeee wrote: »

Paper on covid implemented infrastructure and it's affect on communities: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/15/e2024399118.
I haven't read the whole thing, but a quick look indicates that two plus two does indeed equal four.

Indeed. I love this particular quote

Active travel makes people healthier and creates a wide range of additional social and environmental benefits. The provision of dedicated infrastructure is considered a crucial policy to increase cycling. However, evaluating the impact of this type of intervention is difficult because infrastructure changes are typically slow.

The rollout of so-called pop-up bike lanes during the COVID-19 pandemic is a unique empirical context to estimate the pull effect of new cycling infrastructure.

We show that the policy has worked. We find large increases in cycling. This result is robust for a variety of empirical counterfactuals. Further research is needed to investigate whether this change is persistent and whether similar results can be achieved in situations outside the context of a pandemic.

So, the next time I'll show them this when someone says "yeah well how do we know this is even worth doing?!?!? Like, will people even use the cycle lanes if we put them in omgwtf11?!?!?"

Qrt

Saw the report about the “Cycle Lane Action Group”

Laughable really. Unfortunately they’ll get all the attention.

Larbre34

Whilst there is a raft of important national issues at hand which need no rehearsal here, does Eoghan Murphy's resignation as TD present an opportunity for a single issue by-election campaign in Dublin Bay South (or at least part of it) between Hazel Chu and Mannix Flynn??!!

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Whilst there is a raft of important national issues at hand which need no rehearsal here, does Eoghan Murphy's resignation as TD present an opportunity for a single issue by-election campaign in Dublin Bay South (or at least part of it) between Hazel Chu and Mannix Flynn??!!

Well by-elections are typically a barometer of the government of the day, so its unlikely this would be a single issue campaign. In addition, a bike lane on a particular road is a local election issue, not a by-election issue.

But lets have a look at the numbers for the craic

Given that he contested the general elections in 2011, 2016 & 2020, all unsuccessfully, it would seem like throwing good money after bad for him considering he never got enough votes in any GE to get his deposit back

Looking at the local elections from 2019, Chu got 4,069 and was elected on the first round.

In the same election, Flynn was elected on the 10th count with a total of 941 votes and only just beat out the first runner up by 13 votes so came very close to not being elected at all.

In fact, looking at his track record shows he is rapidly becoming irrelevant to the electorate



In summary, I've no idea if either of them will go forward for the by-election and I've no idea who will win the seat, but one thing I will happily put money on, is Chu winning more votes than the anti-active travel candidate if both do go forward for it.

Looks like there is a thread for the by-election set up here if you wish to join the discussion there.

Weepsie

Larbre34 wrote: »

Whilst there is a raft of important national issues at hand which need no rehearsal here, does Eoghan Murphy's resignation as TD present an opportunity for a single issue by-election campaign in Dublin Bay South (or at least part of it) between Hazel Chu and Mannix Flynn??!!

I think this reflects the self centric worldview of the objectors that they think the by election for a much wider area than their own local one. They actually only give a ****e about what's happening in their little world imo.

It will be an issue, but it will be one of many.

Flynn got 750 or so votes in the last GE, half of what he got in the previous one and less than some unheard of Renua candidate.

buffalo

I only realised this morning that the Merrion Row plans make no provision for cyclists. As far as I can see, reversing Ely Place and Hume St adds about a kilometre onto the journey from Merrion Square to Stephen's Green. And that includes that lovely ambiguous merge from Baggot St onto Pembroke St, the unmarked drag strip along Fitzwilliam Square, and then the right turn at the bottom of Leeson Street.

Lots of room on both Ely Place and Hume St to widen the footpaths and add a contra-flow lane.

Have your say at https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/merrion-row-consultation/

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/Dublin_Suzy/status/1387335543625863168

daragh_

I hope Mannix runs because I always like his election posters. I disagree with him about nearly everything but he's got a good eye for design. (Graphic, not Road Design )

nomdeboardie

buffalo wrote: »

I only realised this morning that the Merrion Row plans make no provision for cyclists. As far as I can see, reversing Ely Place and Hume St adds about a kilometre onto the journey from Merrion Square to Stephen's Green. And that includes that lovely ambiguous merge from Baggot St onto Pembroke St, the unmarked drag strip along Fitzwilliam Square, and then the right turn at the bottom of Leeson Street.

Lots of room on both Ely Place and Hume St to widen the footpaths and add a contra-flow lane.

Have your say at https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/merrion-row-consultation/

Definitely let them know! (I'd do so myself, but it's been so long since I've cycled (or even walked) in the city centre it would take a long time for me to get my head around the existing and proposed flows and route permutations to make sure I know what I'm writing about (due dilligence & all) )

buffalo

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Definitely let them know! (I'd do so myself, but it's been so long since I've cycled (or even walked) in the city centre it would take a long time for me to get my head around the existing and proposed flows and route permutations to make sure I know what I'm writing about (due dilligence & all) )

I have, but I am only one voice so encouraging others to do the same.

I missed an opportunity to push for a contra-flow lane on Merrion Row itself!

NamelessPhil

Thanks for the link to the consultation. I've filled it in, other than the mention of cycle parking on Hume St. there is no mention of cycling at all. Not even a reference to the current cycle lane markings on Hume St. I did ask for a contraflow cycle lane.

Thelonious Monk

Hard to tell where this is on the south quays but it's much welcomed, I can't think of much worse places for cycling than going west on the quays from O'Connell bridge onwards

https://twitter.com/ciarancannon/status/1387419705456087042

CramCycle

NamelessPhil wrote: »

Thanks for the link to the consultation. I've filled it in, other than the mention of cycle parking on Hume St. there is no mention of cycling at all. Not even a reference to the current cycle lane markings on Hume St. I did ask for a contraflow cycle lane.

It's about the only thing missing from the plan, otherwise I am in full support of this as someone who worked on Merrion row for many years, it should have been single lane years ago, preferably bus only but that would require far more expansive changes, the footpaths were dangerously narrow pre covid. If they wanted to be truly daring, they might consider reducing Hume St. to one lane, and potentially making the road passed the DfT and the AG one way as well but one thing at a time.

Also either ANPR cameras or bollards for buses will be needed as well.

Stark

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Hard to tell where this is on the south quays but it's much welcomed, I can't think of much worse places for cycling than going west on the quays from O'Connell bridge onwards

https://twitter.com/ciarancannon/status/1387419705456087042

His camera angle is terrible but it looks to be Wood Quay based on my recent experiences cycling that way.

Protected cycle lane starts at Wood quay and finishes at Father Matthew bridge.

Overall still a long way to go to even match what they have on the North quays though. Loads of gaps in the cycle lane protection to allow for parking/pulling in out of garages etc. And the dodgiest parts are still totally unprotected.

loyatemu

good example here of what could be done on Merrion Row:
https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1280721128831381504

I've filled in the survey and pointed out the lack of cycle route.