Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

AndrewJRenko

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Coincidentally I'm just after seeing this tweet...

https://twitter.com/glutenfreeMark/status/1350465343471419397?s=19

But, but, no-one will cycle in winter, are you mad?

https://twitter.com/robertburns73/status/1350847873685065730

Thelonious Monk

I was at the seafront in Raheny today at around 9am and the cycleway had loads of cyclists on it. People use them if they're built.

Seth Brundle

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I was at the seafront in Raheny today at around 9am and the cycleway had loads of cyclists on it. People use them if they're built.

That cycleway is busy every day. It is used a lot by commuters and leisure cyclists alike.

strandroad

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But, but, no-one will cycle in winter, are you mad?

Some of my local parks have had paths widened by the programme. They weren't exactly cycling hotspots before but there is a lot of activity now, especially the wee ones taught by parents. In January! Scooting too. Entire families out. It actually impacts me if I'm there as a pedestrian who now needs to share but I'll gladly take it, it's great to see.

Thelonious Monk

And just because a cycle lane is busy does that mean instead it should have cars driving on that piece of land constantly or what?

Weepsie

The park wsa also heaving with cyclists today, and it was cyclists of all shapes and sizes. IT was an absolute pleasure.

Loads and loads of families out cycling. A dad with his very young son on hybrids, a cyclist with disability but with a nifty looking adapted bike, a few families with trailers and those ridealong things, and babyseats, older couples, a young family doing some trail riding, some utility cycling, a handful of what you'd call racing cyclists for want of a better word. There were also loads of women too of every age, and not once did they dismount at a roundabout!

the only problem in the park was people driving really slowy looking for parking on the verges and even then, it wasn't as bad as it has been

markpb

Larbre34 wrote: »

The numbers evident on the Seapoint-Dun Laoghaire cyclelane that I see at different times every single day, make me think thats exactly what it is going to be.

A lot of the people travelling to work at the minute (hospital staff, shop staff, manufacturing, warehousing, call centre, etc) will be on shift patterns so I’m not sure how you can tell what it’s being used for.

Anyway, if you’re not happy with the numbers commuting, perhaps that’s because there are very few really good cycle lanes in Dublin. The CMR is brilliant but it’s only a start.

Larbre34

The Sandymount Cycle for All group have, to date, gathered 850 signatures for their petition to insist on off-road cycle facilities on Strand Road / Beach Road.

Seth Brundle

Larbre34 wrote: »

The Sandymount Cycle for All group have, to date, gathered 850 signatures for their petition to insist on off-road cycle facilities on Strand Road / Beach Road.

Where is the petition?

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

I have no connection with STC and I don't live in the area. My own concern, as a business owner in and a citizen of this City is the segregation, isolation and creeping exclusivisation of parts of it, down to an over zealous bureaucracy and special interest lobbies, using the excuse of a temporary crisis situation to bring about big changes in an unchecked and improper manner.

It's always funny when people talk about cycling as 'exclusive' or 'elite'. It's almost as if some people have forgotten about the order of magnitude of difference in the purchase and running costs of bikes vs cars.

Cars are exclusive and elitist. Bikes are not exclusive or elitist.

Not everyone can drive, whether because they're too young or too old or too poor or too disabled.

Weepsie

On reasons for signing.

Lack of consultation apparent. Jesus f*ckin wept. Consultation was open with over half the people in support of it and only a quarter objecting to it. More have singed the petition than outright objected in the consultation, so I'd wager a fair few just didn't bother and are throwing a hissy

It's a trial too.

markpb

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Where is the petition?

I’m willing to bet it’s a secret petition. They don’t want to be infiltrated by Big Cycling.

Seaswimmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

The other roads in the City that exclude vehicular traffic are, by their nature, City Centre streets that are ideal for pedestrianisation and creating ambient social and commercial spaces in the open air.

The fact that Strand Road bears no resemblance to those streets, in profile or in purpose, only supports my argument further.

I was trawling the Dun Laoghaire forum to find something and came across your post from 2013 (sad I know). I have bolded the bit I like.. Once upon a time you were actually ahead of the rest of us in your thinking:)

"By the way i understand the crossing point outside the DART station, the amount of jay walking and walking out behind buses that goes on there is madness. Also car drivers behave appallingly at the main crossroads, more lights broken than an old christmas tree. Ive no problem with private drivers being pushed down the pecking order on road priority, and as ive said before on these threads, that is the adopted national policy"

magicbastarder

Strand Road cycleway

Sir, – As an outside observer of the ongoing Strand Road cycle track trial saga, it has been amusing to note the logical contortions and contradictions objectors have notched up.
...
My favourite was the claim in the same article that there are very few cyclists at present, therefore a cycle track is not warranted. I’m looking forward to the next proposal of a bridge over the Liffey. I can point out that very few people are swimming across the river, so why do we need a bridge?

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/strand-road-cycleway-1.4461475

what_traffic

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/strand-road-cycleway-1.4461475?mode=amp

Is there a hat tip icon! "As an outside observer..." great opening line.
Amazing how much coverage Strand Road cycleway has been given.
The IT can often feel like a local South Dublin newsletter.

Larbre34

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I was trawling the Dun Laoghaire forum to find something and came across your post from 2013 (sad I know). I have bolded the bit I like.. Once upon a time you were actually ahead of the rest of us in your thinking:)

"By the way i understand the crossing point outside the DART station, the amount of jay walking and walking out behind buses that goes on there is madness. Also car drivers behave appallingly at the main crossroads, more lights broken than an old christmas tree. Ive no problem with private drivers being pushed down the pecking order on road priority, and as ive said before on these threads, that is the adopted national policy"

Yeah it is pretty sad, but whatever gets you off.

I'm not on here decrying cyclists or cycling. I never have been. I am one. I'm on here decrying bad decision making, piss poor bureaucracy, total lack of strategic and joined up thinking, the binning of the rules under the guise of the pandemic as if things are never supposed to re-balance in the end, the multitude of agencies and ministers involved in transport policy, yet none of them will take ultimate responsibility and grasp the nettles that need grasping and properly fund alternative systems.

I spend every second that I'm driving giving cyclists and other vulnerable road users the widest berth I can. I roll my eyes at every red light I see broken by a cyclist, as its just more ammunition against them.

But none of that is relevant to Captain Ahab Keegan and his stupid bloody plan to block off a regional road and key economic route against planning procedures, against proper design standards and while there are alternatives available. The City Council executive have genuinely not thought through the knock on effect of doing this and I do not trust them one bit to remove this "trial" down the line.

buffalo

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm on here decrying bad decision making, piss poor bureaucracy, total lack of strategic and joined up thinking, the binning of the rules under the guise of the pandemic as if things are never supposed to re-balance in the end, the multitude of agencies and ministers involved in transport policy, yet none of them will take ultimate responsibility and grasp the nettles that need grasping and properly fund alternative systems.

You say the above, yet when DCC grasp the nettle, cut through the bureaucracy and make a decision to create an alternative (moving to join up the city centre with the CMR in a strategy of fighting climate change and creating space for non-motorists), you say the below.

Larbre34 wrote: »

But none of that is relevant to Captain Ahab Keegan and his stupid bloody plan to block off a regional road and key economic route against planning procedures, against proper design standards and while there are alternatives available.

I guess there's no winning.

Larbre34

No one gave Keegan carte blanche to do an end-run around planning rules. If that is let pass, after the poor history of it in this City, don't come crying to me when he does something that you do object to, while also skipping due process.

We're talking about the same Executive that is talking again in recent days about a feckin white water rafting complex in George's Dock, against the will of the elected Councillors and even though projected costs have risen from 12 to 25 million euro.

I make no apology for not trusting him or his senior staff one inch.

Seth Brundle

^^^
That's just paranoid nonsense.

Larbre34

Seth Brundle wrote: »

^^^
That's just paranoid nonsense.

Is it?

The City Council's Law Agent last week stated the Council's intention to press ahead with Strand Road plan, in spite of residents seeking a Section 5 determination from An Bord Pleanála, saying the Council has no obligation to halt work that it contends is under S.38 and accusing residents of seeking to frustrate the plan.

That legal officer knows as well as you or I that it is perfectly valid to ask for an S5 determination for work of this scale. The City Council knows better than anyone what importance Part 8 has in underwriting the validity and due process of local authority works. In other words, he knows there is an argument to be made here and the determination is uncertain.

If the City executive know this and choose the steamroller anyway, my concern about it isn't paranoia. Your concern should be what they choose to do next with these poor practices.

Seaswimmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

No one gave Keegan carte blanche to do an end-run around planning rules. If that is let pass, after the poor history of it in this City, don't come crying to me when he does something that you do object to, while also skipping due process.

We're talking about the same Executive that is talking again in recent days about a feckin white water rafting complex in George's Dock, against the will of the elected Councillors and even though projected costs have risen from 12 to 25 million euro.

I make no apology for not trusting him or his senior staff one inch.

It is only a trial. Why not give it a go. If it ends up in chaos then revert back.
We can only guess at the moment how it will work out and whether it will be permanent or not.
But without giving it a go then we miss an opportunity to see if it may be successful. It is a perfect time to try it out as traffic volumes are low so impact should be minimal.
The coastal route from Blackrock to Sandycove is still in its trial phase and appears successful despite everybodys fears.

magicbastarder

can someone name one implementation of a cycle lane which so far has resulted in the sort of apocalypse we keep being warned of?

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

No one gave Keegan carte blanche to do an end-run around planning rules. If that is let pass, after the poor history of it in this City, don't come crying to me when he does something that you do object to, while also skipping due process.

We're talking about the same Executive that is talking again in recent days about a feckin white water rafting complex in George's Dock, against the will of the elected Councillors and even though projected costs have risen from 12 to 25 million euro.

I make no apology for not trusting him or his senior staff one inch.

What’s your issue with the white water rafting plan. I think it’s great. And will be well used. As a nation we have kids poor facilities if you want to do a sport outside of the GAA, FAI or IRFU. It’ll be money well spent.

Plenty of cllrs support it.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

No one gave Keegan carte blanche to do an end-run around planning rules. If that is let pass, after the poor history of it in this City, don't come crying to me when he does something that you do object to, while also skipping due process.

We're talking about the same Executive that is talking again in recent days about a feckin white water rafting complex in George's Dock, against the will of the elected Councillors and even though projected costs have risen from 12 to 25 million euro.

I make no apology for not trusting him or his senior staff one inch.

So are you saying that the 37 Councillors reported as voting in favour of the White Water Rafting here didn't actually vote for it?
https://twitter.com/DarraghCulhane/status/1202255030260248582?s=19

And wasn't the budget €22m at that stage?

silverharp

its like the civil war innit, the Free State is an impediment to achieving the Republic. Realistically there wont be a top class cycle route for the Strand Road for 10 years if ever, its worth giving this trial a shot and if it doesnt work now it never will when traffic goes back to normal over time

Larbre34

DCC figures out this evening.

Vehicular traffic between the canals now at 58% of pre-Covid levels, as opposed to 30% in March / April last.

The Council determines that those who would have taken public transport and still require to attend work are now most likely to be driving or be a passenger in a private vehicle.

Thelonious Monk

magicbastarder wrote: »

can someone name one implementation of a cycle lane which so far has resulted in the sort of apocalypse we keep being warned of?

Kensington High Street. It was allegedly causing so much hassle lately for motorists they got rid of it and then cameras showed that vans etc were parked there for days, blocking the lane anyway. But that didn't seem to bother anyone.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

I spend every second that I'm driving giving cyclists and other vulnerable road users the widest berth I can. I roll my eyes at every red light I see broken by a cyclist, as its just more ammunition against them.

I suppose if you rolled your eyes at each of the 98% of motorists that break a speed limit, and each of the majority of motorists that use their phones while driving, you wouldn't actually be able to drive as you'd never get your eyes down from the roof.

eeeee

Mod note: enough of the cars v cyclists, red light breaking speeding bickering. Off topic for this thread. Further posts on that subject will be deleted.

Seaswimmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

DCC figures out this evening.

Vehicular traffic between the canals now at 58% of pre-Covid levels, as opposed to 30% in March / April last.

The Council determines that those who would have taken public transport and still require to attend work are now most likely to be driving or be a passenger in a private vehicle.

Still a long way short of pre covid traffic levels though and we may never get back to those days with home working.. Lots of reasons given for the increase anyway.

First lockdown was 2k limit, over 70s advised to cocoon and more retail was shut back then. Also we probably were a bit more diligent and weren't so weary of lockdowns..