Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

MojoMaker

MojoMaker wrote: »

When there's no cycle lanes drivers seem even more pissed off :pac:

Be honest now, what STC (COCK and Hennessy) really mean is: "Cyclists just result in misery for drivers".

The issue I have with the proposed cycle route, is that for a lot of people in South Dublin, that is our way to the airport.

We have three choices basically, the M50, the coast road or through town. The M50 is, well, the M50, going though town is already a nightmare and that only leaves the coast road, a road that can also be an absolute nightmare especially when there is something on at the point.

And no, cycling to the airport isn’t really an option.

strandroad

Aegir wrote: »

The issue I have with the proposed cycle route, is that for a lot of people in South Dublin, that is our way to the airport.

We have three choices basically, the M50, the coast road or through town. The M50 is, well, the M50, going though town is already a nightmare and that only leaves the coast road, a road that can also be an absolute nightmare especially when there is something on at the point.

And no, cycling to the airport isn’t really an option.

Dart to Connolly + Airlink 747 is there for you too.

Thelonious Monk

You drive to Macken St and over the new bridge, might be quicker sometimes or might take an extra 5 minutes, not the end of the world.

eeeee

Aegir wrote: »

The issue I have with the proposed cycle route, is that for a lot of people in South Dublin, that is our way to the airport.

We have three choices basically, the M50, the coast road or through town. The M50 is, well, the M50, going though town is already a nightmare and that only leaves the coast road, a road that can also be an absolute nightmare especially when there is something on at the point.

And no, cycling to the airport isn’t really an option.

The Rock road and the 24 hour Aircoach are there. And cycling to the airport is perfectly doable, I've done it.

ted1

Aegir wrote: »

The issue I have with the proposed cycle route, is that for a lot of people in South Dublin, that is our way to the airport.

We have three choices basically, the M50, the coast road or through town. The M50 is, well, the M50, going though town is already a nightmare and that only leaves the coast road, a road that can also be an absolute nightmare especially when there is something on at the point.

And no, cycling to the airport isn’t really an option.

I cycle to the airport daily from south Dublin. It’s a good option.
If you are going to the airport , do you think they should accommodate your occasional used route instead of providing safe infrastructure people would use Daily? Or you could use Merrion road and then through Sandymount or use the Samuel Beckett bridge

eeeee

eeeee wrote: »

The Rock road and the 24 hour Aircoach are there. And cycling to the airport is perfectly doable, I've done it.

It isn’t really when you are travelling, or picking up/dropping off elderly relatives.

I use the air coach regularly (at least I did back in the days of going places) and the switch from the coast road to going over the Becket bridge already added thirty minutes to the journey. That was without every other driver heading that way using it as well.

The thing is, that road is a bypass. It’s where cars should go to keep them out of the villages. Making it one way will just push traffic to where it isn’t supposed to go.

Peregrine

Aegir wrote: »

The issue I have with the proposed cycle route, is that for a lot of people in South Dublin, that is our way to the airport.

We have three choices basically, the M50, the coast road or through town. The M50 is, well, the M50, going though town is already a nightmare and that only leaves the coast road, a road that can also be an absolute nightmare especially when there is something on at the point.

And no, cycling to the airport isn’t really an option.

How many people driving on Strand Road are going to the airport? Probably a tiny %.

It's not really a factor at the moment since there's practically no international travel. By the time international travel is back in a large scale, public transport will be back to full capacity too. Business travel will probably never recover to 2019 levels so most people who drive to the airport regularly won't have to anymore.

The remaining small number of people making that trip once or twice a year on Strand Road can use public transport or take the M50.

What's wrong with the M50?

Peregrine

Peregrine wrote: »

How many people driving on Strand Road are going to the airport? Probably a tiny %.

It's not really a factor at the moment since there's practically no international travel. By the time international travel is back in a large scale, public transport will be back to full capacity too. Business travel will probably never recover to 2019 levels so most people who drive to the airport regularly won't have to anymore.

The remaining small number of people making that trip once or twice a year on Strand Road can use public transport or take the M50.

What's wrong with the M50?

I use it for the airport, but there is also a port, a large business park and the huge amounts of offices around the point and IFSC.

I do cycle along this route as well on the days I fancy doing a loop around Howth.

There is acres of space along that stretch and I would much rather see them utilise that than take up a lane and unless they do something to link it up with Blackrock park, then it is only going to dump cyclists back on to the Rock Road anyway. This is ignoring the rather large elephant in the room of north bound cyclists trying to turn right over the crossing.

it was around 2006 that Bertie Ahern posed for a photo on Dun Laoghaire sea front to publicise the all new singing and dancing Sandycove to Sutton cycle way. If they had used those 15 years to actually do something constructive then we wouldn't be in this position, instead we have half arsed measures put in place so that a few councillors can pat themselves on the back.

magicbastarder

aren't there plans to increase the frequency on the dart line? i think i read that - at rush hour - the gates will actually be closed more than half the time. if that is the case, the argument about traffic being forced onto alternative routes is pretty much moot, no?

Larbre34

I think its fair to say the cycle track just got overtaken by events.

An Bord Pleanála today granted permission for the demolition of existing buildings on the Roslyn Park site (junction of Newgrove Ave, Strand Road and Beach Road) and the building of a new primary and new secondary school in their place, to serve 1,450 pupils and 140 staff.

We can have the conversation about travelling to school at a later date, because I know for certain that construction traffic for this massive development will need two-way access to the site and the only possible route is Strand Road / Beach Road.

So, it really is 'build it on the Prom' or bust. And don't give me biosphere nonsense, the cycletrack would replace quite a bit of car parking inside the line of the stone wall, so sustainable objective achieved.

magicbastarder

seems the locals were opposed to that too:

https://www.thejournal.ie/permission-granted-for-two-new-schools-in-sandymount-despite-local-opposition-5344444-Feb2021/

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

And don't give me biosphere nonsense, the cycletrack would replace quite a bit of car parking inside the line of the stone wall, so sustainable objective achieved.

That’s rubbish. As any cycle path inside the wall would just be routed around the car park.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think its fair to say the cycle track just got overtaken by events.

An Bord Pleanála today granted permission for the demolition of existing buildings on the Roslyn Park site (junction of Newgrove Ave, Strand Road and Beach Road) and the building of a new primary and new secondary school in their place, to serve 1,450 pupils and 140 staff.

We can have the conversation about travelling to school at a later date, because I know for certain that construction traffic for this massive development will need two-way access to the site and the only possible route is Strand Road / Beach Road.

So, it really is 'build it on the Prom' or bust. And don't give me biosphere nonsense, the cycletrack would replace quite a bit of car parking inside the line of the stone wall, so sustainable objective achieved.

Why exactly will construction traffic need two way access?

Peregrine

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think its fair to say the cycle track just got overtaken by events.

An Bord Pleanála today granted permission for the demolition of existing buildings on the Roslyn Park site (junction of Newgrove Ave, Strand Road and Beach Road) and the building of a new primary and new secondary school in their place, to serve 1,450 pupils and 140 staff.

We can have the conversation about travelling to school at a later date, because I know for certain that construction traffic for this massive development will need two-way access to the site and the only possible route is Strand Road / Beach Road.

So, it really is 'build it on the Prom' or bust. And don't give me biosphere nonsense, the cycletrack would replace quite a bit of car parking inside the line of the stone wall, so sustainable objective achieved.

Aren't you the same guy who said the central government are "stepping in" and cancelling this because of Brexit? Why should anyone listen to you now? You want this cancelled so badly, you'll hold on to the smallest things in the hope this will get cancelled. You're being irrational.

Considering the ABP decision was an appeal of Dublin City Council's decision to grant permission for the two schools back in August, I think DCC may be aware of this. Anyway, they don't get to demand the layout of the roads around their site. They'll have to work around what's already there. Let's look at the conditions of the planning permission.

The construction of the development shall be managed in accordance
with a Construction Management Plan, which shall be submitted to,
and agreed in writing with, the planning authority prior to
commencement of development. This plan shall provide details of
intended construction practice for the development, including noise
management measures and off-site disposal of construction/demolition
waste.

A construction management plan will include traffic management unless there's a separate traffic management plan. It shall be submitted to and agreed in writing with the planning authority. Who's the planning authority? Dublin City Council.

Let's have a look at the objectors..

• Seafort Avenue Residents Group (3rd Party Appellant) (Active)
• Sandymount and Merrion Residents Association (3rd Party Appellant) (Active)

Not the same Seafort Avenue Residents Group and the same Sandymount and Merrion Residents Association that's objecting the Strand Road cycleway? There's even more overlap in the list of people who objected to the original DCC application. Do they just have a template objection letter than they send off to everything?

Kaisr Sose

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think its fair to say the cycle track just got overtaken by events.

An Bord Pleanála today granted permission for the demolition of existing buildings on the Roslyn Park site (junction of Newgrove Ave, Strand Road and Beach Road) and the building of a new primary and new secondary school in their place, to serve 1,450 pupils and 140 staff.

The serial objectors will have to decide on which is the lesser evil or greater good. I wonder what fence you sit on here as some of your posts are bizarre.

Larbre34

Schools good, cycletracks that delete parts of important regional routes - bad. Simple really.

The reason construction traffic will need two way access to Roslyn Park along the coast road is, if it does not have it, then by definition it has to divert either coming or going, via an suitable, narrow, neighbourhood route.

And if you thought the locals lost their shyt over the prospect of the cycletrack, well.....

ted1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why exactly will construction traffic need two way access?

Come on, nowhere in the world have they ever built anywhere that had access via a one way road ...

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

Schools good, cycletracks that delete parts of important regional routes - bad. Simple really.

The reason construction traffic will need two way access to Roslyn Park along the coast road is, if it does not have it, then by definition it has to divert either coming or going, via an suitable, narrow, neighbourhood route.

Or construction traffic could arrive and depart on a looping route via main roads. The one way system doesn't make it any more or less likely that they will use rat runs.

Are you clutching at straws now?

silverharp

lots of building sites only have one entrance. The Roslyn Park site has a huge lawn in front of the building they are going to demolish, so there is plenty of turning circle from the Newgrove Ave entrance. On the flip side Im surprised there is that much demand form people walking distance from the proposed school, Sandymount is a fairly mature area so I cant picture that extra demand coming locally, its a fair distance form the Dart

Peregrine

silverharp wrote: »

lots of building sites only have one entrance. The Roslyn Park site has a huge lawn in front of the building they are going to demolish, so there is plenty of turning circle from the Newgrove Ave entrance. On the flip side Im surprised there is that much demand form people walking distance from the proposed school, Sandymount is a fairly mature area so I cant picture that extra demand coming locally, its a fair distance form the Dart

The Poolbeg West SDZ nearby should result in 3500 new homes over the coming years.

Yes, SAMRA objected to that too.

magicbastarder

please tell me that rising sea levels were a factor they pointed to in their objection?

cgcsb

Larbre34 wrote: »

Putting a cycleway on Strand Road won't do one damn thing to reduce emissions

False

Larbre34 wrote: »

Only switching the national fleet of ICE vehicles to ZE options, reducing fossil fuel energy generation and rebalancing our diet, all over the World, will do that.

Also untrue. There isn't enough lithium or cobolt in the world for every western world family to have an EV, that's a flat fact. The main reduction of emissions from transport comes from switching to more sustainable mode and better planning to ensure proximity between residents and trip generators. EVs are only a small part of the solution.

cgcsb

Larbre34 wrote: »

We can have the conversation about travelling to school at a later date, because I know for certain that construction traffic for this massive development will need two-way access to the site and the only possible route is Strand Road / Beach Road.

Not sure where you've pulled this from? Have yo ever been to Dublin City Centre during the recent building boom or the pre crash building boom? Many very large buildings have been built, not only on one way streets but on streets that 2 cyclists could barely overtake each other. There have been massive developments hemmed in between luas tracks and small alleys for access.

Have you seent the new Andrews lane hotel? or how about the new we work buildin on Adelaide?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3431133,-6.2626766,3a,75y,10.89h,88.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNX-kttm-YdM0rNWwCvOzdQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DNX-kttm-YdM0rNWwCvOzdQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D34.989586%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3325046,-6.2617638,3a,75y,37.34h,104t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s37M8GU3bmDor4xMKVVBWXw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D37M8GU3bmDor4xMKVVBWXw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D159.2921%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192


That's just Dublin, you should see what can be done internationally, in Tokyo they can build skyscrapers with access akin to a keyhole.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Schools good, cycletracks that delete parts of important regional routes - bad. Simple really.

The reason construction traffic will need two way access to Roslyn Park along the coast road is, if it does not have it, then by definition it has to divert either coming or going, via an suitable, narrow, neighbourhood route.

Come again?

Seth Brundle

This is what the residents assocation appears to want to continue happening...

https://twitter.com/danmandunne/status/1357495628578840579

Thelonious Monk

https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1357695498942038017

I'm not sure if this means it's going ahead or not.
Can you imagine the fun once it's up and running though? People will be blaming everything on it.

Larbre34

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1357695498942038017

I'm not sure if this means it's going ahead or not.
Can you imagine the fun once it's up and running though? People will be blaming everything on it.

The Council intend to proceed with it, and with Strand Road in the same style, but they will be injuncted by local community groups, so it isn't going ahead, basically.

Seth Brundle

Ciarán Ferrie has a number of interesting tweets about it...

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1357700697446318081

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1357700704580861955

MojoMaker

Larbre34 wrote: »

The Council intend to proceed with it, and with Strand Road in the same style, but they will be injuncted by local community groups, so it isn't going ahead, basically.

Out of interest, where is this certainty coming from?

As a resident local to the Phoenix Park what is the connection with Sandymount and this scheme?

Larbre34

MojoMaker wrote: »

Out of interest, where is this certainty coming from?

As a resident local to the Phoenix Park what is the connection with Sandymount and this scheme?

I have no connection to it, locally or otherwise, other than a few professional contacts living in the area.

My concerns are proper planning, due process and a demand for joined up thinking between the countless agencies and authorities that have various and conflicting responsibilities in the area of roads, traffic and transport in this City.

For instance, the 24hr HGV ban mentioned above. The City Council are full of good intentions, but, it should be made very clear to everyone that heavy vehicles with legitimate business in the area (waste collection, deliveries, accessing owner premises, servicing construction sites etc) will all be perfectly entitled to traverse these roads if Strand Road is out of action in one direction.

I refer back to the matter discussed yesterday, the Roslyn Park school site, if Strand Road is restricted and a HGV limit is in place through Sandymount and Ringsend /Irishtown is narrow and traffic calmed and Bath Avenue has a width restriction on the bridge, how in the name of **** is that developer going to get on with its legitimate business in a safe manner?

There are many people pulling figures clean out of their arse on this, the City Council and Ciaran Ferrie are but two. A whole new traffic assessment will need be to be carried out with all the variables that were previously omitted and all the new factors that keep being added.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

There are many people pulling figures clean out of their arse on this, the City Council and Ciaran Ferrie are but two.

Someone’s clearly wearing blinkers.