Confederate flags on Shandon Street

jimgoose

whisky_galore wrote: »

So is waving the Imperial Japanese Rising Sun flag around....

The Rising Sun flag is used as the Japanese Naval ensign, and for the military generally. It is true that it is considered offensive in some jurisdictions that were subject to Japanese war crimes, but I personally enjoy the fact that it pisses off the Chinese.

The national flag of Japan has the same Sun emblem but no red bars. It is also used in Caaark to indicate the presence of a curry-house.

olestoepoke

PreCocious wrote: »

The Rebel County - so called because they supported the campaign of a different English King to rule over them.

The Rebel County - where the highest honour is to have a picture with the UK queen.

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

PalLimerick

dulpit wrote: »

Hey all,

Every summer for the last few years one of the apartments near the bottom of Shandon street (before the junction to Blarney Street as you're coming up the hill) has had a number of Confederate flags flying out the windows. I didn't see any this year until the last few weeks, so I assume it's tied to the GAA season. I would have thought by now the person would have known why not to fly those flags, and Cork GAA have publicly stated in the past that these flags should not be used.

I'm half tempted to figure out which house it is so I can post them a postcard reminding them what the flags stand for. Unless someone here knows who it is and can give them a gentle reminder.

IMO this is Norris Cole behaviour on your part.

the beer revolu

olestoepoke wrote: »

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

Doesn't change the fact that the term "Rebel County" has nothing to do with the War of Independence.

John_Rambo

jimgoose wrote: »

Strictly speaking the Southern Cross, to give it it's proper monicker, was flown as a battle-flag by the army of Northern Virginia during the civil war. It was used in the top-left canton of the actual Confederate States of America flag between 1863 and 1865, known as the Stainless Banner.

I think we're talking present day and what the flag represents in this century.

PreCocious

olestoepoke wrote: »

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

I believe there was fighting in other parts of the country as well.

Nekarsulm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

The bandits of West Cork brought in the European Exchange Rate mechanism?
Feck me, they kept that quiet!
1979, wasn't it?

cantalach

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Neither is the swastika for that matter - it's an ancient religious symbol.
while the nazi party adopted it for its flag

Thanks but I’m well travelled in India and SE Asia, and I think everyone knows that anyway. I didn’t just show any ould swastika. I specifically showed the Nazi flag. I must have been in 100 pagodas and temples in the last 3-4 years and of all the swastikas I’ve seen, I never saw a thick black one in a white disk on a red canvas. THAT particular swastika IS a symbol of anti-semitism, racism, sectarianism, homophobia, etc. It’s disingenuous to argue over over semantics and say that a flag can’t be racist. That’s the same as, “guns don’t kill people - people kill people.”

whisky_galore

jimgoose wrote: »

The Rising Sun flag is used as the Japanese Naval ensign, and for the military generally. It is true that it is considered offensive in some jurisdictions that were subject to Japanese war crimes, but I personally enjoy the fact that it pisses off the Chinese.

Koreans have a particular dislike of it.

If people want to be dickheads waving this or a Confederate flag around, that's completely up to them.

bot43

The woke brigade have gone too far. During the rain the other day I put a white hood and mask over my face so my hair and face wouldn’t get wet while walking down Shandon street. Loads of snowflakes starting screaming at me “thaaaaats waaaaaaaaycist”. I asked them how could a piece of cloth be racist. And everyone around me applauded.

bot43

TomTomTim wrote: »

Simple. Social justice types are often cowardly people. They love to scream names at people on the internet, but reach a stumbling block when it comes approaching people in the real world. I'm sure the strongly worded letter will put the fear in the guilty party though.

The ironing of something like this being posted on an anonymous forum.

bot43

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

How the fluich can a flag be racist :rolleyes:


They ve been flown at Cork matches for at least 30 years and I'd wager that the people flying them had absolutely no iota what they "stand" for - they've have no connotations outside of the USA. They've nothing go to do with Chinese lads or polish lassies or Nigerian princes - the only minority group that can feel offended by them are AFRICAN AMERICANS from the US like - have we many of them living here?

Ah yes. The “we’ve been flying our flag since before racism was invented” card.

bot43

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Before we all "Woke" we thought it was synonymous with Dodge Chargers, CJ7's, cut-off jeans and putting one over on the Po-leece.
Things are so much better now......

What does “woke” mean to you?

From what I can see it’s a term used by daily mail readers to insult people who aren’t complete arseholes.

But that’s just my read on it.

mordeith

bot43 wrote: »

The ironing of something like this being posted on an anonymous forum.

Wish someone would do my ironing online, I've a load of it to do.

yenom

This has come up before. The locals which include a lot of black fellas know it's for matches and not them. He seems to have a different flag out the window every week depending on who is playing.

Cork Trucker

Cork is the rebel county indeed. Also that street is by and large mostly black people and has been for 15-20 years at least

opus

As someone who lives there I think you might be somewhat incorrect in the racial breakdown of the area.

Cork Trucker

Not from there, but whenever I have been in the area that is what I see

cantalach

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Not from there, but whenever I have been in the area that is what I see

I don’t know either way but it must be ten years now since I heard the joke:

“The Lord Mayor was on hand for the official opening of the Shandon Street Business Centre which was set up by three local men and a white guy.”

Herb Powell

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Again, the flag isn't racist.

Neither is the swastika for that matter - it's an ancient religious symbol.
while the nazi party adopted it for its flag

Which is the exact flag in the post you quoted, genius.


Anyway OP, I wouldn't bother. I don't like the flag either and don't think people so be flying it so flippantly (or at all tbh) but like, it's his house, he can do whatever he wants with it. Have a chat if you really want but confrontation on this wouldn't do much good to my mind. It's just signalling an ignorant person, so if they're not getting it at this stage, they'll probably not appreciate a letter, no matter how graciously you may word it.

BrianBoru00

Herb Powell wrote: »

Which is the exact flag in the post you quoted, genius.


Anyway OP, I wouldn't bother. I don't like the flag either and don't think people so be flying it so flippantly (or at all tbh) but like, it's his house, he can do whatever he wants with it. Have a chat if you really want but confrontation on this wouldn't do much good to my mind. It's just signalling an ignorant person, so if they're not getting it at this stage, they'll probably not appreciate a letter, no matter how graciously you may word it.

And like others - your deliberately missing the point. Its not the flag that's racist.
Or would you consider the Union Jack racist?
Is the the Irish tricolour racist?
Is the Stars & Stripes racist?
Is the Chinese flag racist?

the beer revolu

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

And like others - your deliberately missing the point. Its not the flag that's racist.
Or would you consider the Union Jack racist?
Is the the Irish tricolour racist?
Is the Stars & Stripes racist?
Is the Chinese flag racist?

That's just pointless nitpicking

This bit should please you : You are correct.
Happy?

But obviously, an object can represent racist ideals or doctrines. But then you knew that. But hey, you can always say you were right and pat yourself on the back!

Herb Powell

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

And like others - your deliberately missing the point. Its not the flag that's racist.
Or would you consider the Union Jack racist?
Is the the Irish tricolour racist?
Is the Stars & Stripes racist?
Is the Chinese flag racist?

You don't have a point.

There is no context for the Nazi flag outside of its use in the Third Reich, which is explicitly racist. It was invented as a racist symbol to built a nation under racist ideology. Again, the example posted wasn't a "random totally peaceful swastika xD", it was a Third Reich flag.

There's more of an argument to be had over the Confederate flag and what it means to various people, but when you get down to it the abolition of slavery is at the heart of that issue. no matter how much people try to dress it up, and the people who are most desperate to hang onto it seem to reaaallllyyyy not like when you point that out.

hullaballoo

You have to wonder how wisely you're using your time when you find yourself watching people argue over whether or not a nazi flag is racist.

Herb Powell

It is a very slow day at work! :pac::pac::pac:

ShamoBuc

Sorry lads....I'll take the flags in..... didnt think it would be such an issue....only airing them

BrianBoru00

Herb Powell wrote: »

You don't have a point.

There is no context for the Nazi flag outside of its use in the Third Reich, which is explicitly racist. It was invented as a racist symbol to built a nation under racist ideology. Again, the example posted wasn't a "random totally peaceful swastika xD", it was a Third Reich flag.

There's more of an argument to be had over the Confederate flag and what it means to various people, but when you get down to it the abolition of slavery is at the heart of that issue. no matter how much people try to dress it up, and the people who are most desperate to hang onto it seem to reaaallllyyyy not like when you point that out.

But it wasn't explicitly racist 100 years ago and probably isn't seen as a racist flag in China I'd imagine. Should the rising sun flag be banned too from GAA games? The tricolour or union jack both cause offence to half the population in the north but they're going to cause very little offence in say Brazil. More and more symbols seem to be causing offence to this person and that person and in Ireland we seem to be bending over backwards to appease everyone.

Cribs being removed from display in case it offends no Christians,
Replacing "Happy Christmas" with "Happy holidays" for the same reason.
FFS we had to remove an add for Tampon because it caused offence to some loon. Thanks to social media some one somewhere is going to be offended by just about everything.

Context is subjective and equally because as you've said the Nazi flag has no context outside the third reich, in large swathes of the world it doesn't have any meaning so causes no offence and isn't seen as racist

cantalach

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Context is subjective and equally because as you've said the Nazi flag has no context outside the third reich, in large swathes of the world it doesn't have any meaning so causes no offence and isn't seen as racist

If you visit a temple/pagoda in which a swastika is visible, it is not uncommon for a local devotee or attendant to explain that the symbol isn’t racist in their culture. And in temples/pagodas which have pamphlets, it will almost always make reference to the swastika’s history if one is prominent. So its meaning to Westerners and Russians is 100% understood in these countries and there is an awareness that it might cause shock or offence. But if you’ve used a symbol for thousands of years AND it has a benign origin, it would be difficult to justify removing it just because it was co-oped for malign purposes within living memory.

The same surely cannot be said of the Confederate Flag. That does not have a benign origin and from the outset represented a rejection of Abolition. It may have evolved a softer, Southern Pride, Lynyrd Skynyrd meaning over time, but the dark origins cannot be undone or forgotten.

the beer revolu

Am I dreaming or is he still arguing that the Nazi Flag that was depicted isn't representative of racist views and ideology.

My 10 month old niece doesn't recognise it as racist so, therefore, it isn't racist.

Amment I right?
Amment I brilliant?

Herb Powell

Adding "The War on Christmas" as a serious talking point has explained a lot, thanks.