Biden/Harris Presidency Discussion Thread

BredonWimsey

hotmail.com wrote: »

Surely Irish people would apply Irish/European norms to analysis of US politics?

oh yes i'm sure. what i mean and i'm not saying you are doing this as I havent read your posts but i mean its fine from an academic analysis stand point but in terms of practical application - us politics doesent practically apply in ireland and i get the impression that people think it does. its useful from an academic perspective but how the US votes, their party politics etc are all creatures of the US not of Ireland. as some people think there is a great democratic/republican divide in ireland but it doesnt apply here. what is left and right in the US is not demonstrated by their parties and it is not demonstrated here in Ireland either.

kowloon

Not to seem like one of the Trump supporters who suddenly cares about large gatherings, but I think a more virtual inauguration wouldn't have hurt. All the precautions in the world are still less effective than not having a physical event. But maybe it needed to happen to show the insurrectionists that the new administration was happening whether they liked it or not.

BredonWimsey

kowloon wrote: »

Not to seem like one of the Trump supporters who suddenly cares about large gatherings, but I think a more virtual inauguration wouldn't have hurt. All the precautions in the world are still less effective than not having a physical event. But maybe it needed to happen to show the insurrectionists that the new administration was happening whether they liked it or not.

i think they had to show who was in charge - if they didnt there wouldn't have been a clear transfer of power - but i get ur points.

DrumSteve

hotmail.com wrote: »

Past presidents and their wives, singers etc all flown in for an event which could have been done with just a handful of people.

I wonder how many people would have been there for Trumps considering the crowd that turned out on the 6th

pixelburp

kowloon wrote: »

Not to seem like one of the Trump supporters who suddenly cares about large gatherings, but I think a more virtual inauguration wouldn't have hurt. All the precautions in the world are still less effective than not having a physical event. But maybe it needed to happen to show the insurrectionists that the new administration was happening whether they liked it or not.

I agree but America is big on its institutional pageantry, like a lot of countries with an oversized sense of national identity. They like to flaunt their "traditions" as if they possess power in of themselves. To not have some inauguration at the steps, as you say, would have sent a signal to the insurrectionists that they effectively cowed the Biden admin.

As to the numbers, can we just get a final tally of attendees cos I don't believe for one second there were "thousands" that reads like clear hyperbole. Looked like a couple of hundred at most around the podium.

jimmycrackcorm

hotmail.com wrote: »

If you feel the large gathering was grand and it's fine for people to hug their grandchildren, that's your view. I've taken the pandemic more seriously than that.

If those people have been tested and/or vaccinated, then what's the issue?

hotmail.com

BredonWimsey wrote: »

oh yes i'm sure. what i mean and i'm not saying you are doing this as I havent read your posts but i mean its fine from an academic analysis stand point but in terms of practical application - us politics doesent practically apply in ireland and i get the impression that people think it does. its useful from an academic perspective but how the US votes, their party politics etc are all creatures of the US not of Ireland. as some people think there is a great democratic/republican divide in ireland but it doesnt apply here. what is left and right in the US is not demonstrated by their parties and it is not demonstrated here in Ireland either.

I agree. The media here consistently misrepresent American politics as Left and Right, when it's not a Left/Right in European terms.

Indeed, the Democrats would be FG in Ireland and the Tories in Britain. Although the Tories support the NHS, the Democrats still support private health insurance.

So we have this weird contradiction of Irish people who don't like FG or the Tories but will give their life for the Democrats.

BredonWimsey

pixelburp wrote: »

I agree but America is big on its institutional pageantry, like a lot of countries with an oversized sense of national identity. To not have some inauguration at the steps, as you say, would have sent a signal to the insurrectionists that they effectively cowed the Biden admin.

As to the numbers, can we just get a final tally of attendees cos I don't believe for one second there were "thousands" that reads like clear hyperbole. Looked like a couple of hundred at most around the podium.

in addition to the us dignitaries, each member of congress got a ticket for themselves and one guest, there are 535 members of congress. but not all members of congress attended.

hotmail.com

Brian? wrote: »

How many people, in your estimation were at the inauguration?

Several hundred, perhaps a thousand. All the staff drafted in as well to plan and arrange the unnecessary event.

I recall Michael Martin becoming Taoiseach back in June last year, when cases were tiny and his family didn't come up for the event .

hotmail.com

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If those people have been tested and/or vaccinated, then what's the issue?

Is this the policy in America?

BredonWimsey

hotmail.com wrote: »

I agree. The media here consistently misrepresent American politics as Left and Right, when it's not a Left/Right in European terms.

Indeed, the Democrats would be FG in Ireland and the Tories in Britain. Although the Tories support the NHS, the Democrats still support private health insurance.

So we have this weird contradiction of Irish people who don't like FG or the Tories but will give their life for the Democrats.

yes exactly.I just think its so odd. and this is not any judgement on anyone's political affiliation - but for example if someone associates themselves in Ireland or the UK as not falling into the left - they automatically align themselves with Republicanism in the US and then say I support Trump. But Trump then moved away from the Republicans (or vice versa) and now i'd say he will form his own party. i think people should just read policies and really research where they stand on the political spectrum rather than automatically associating with a party that they classify as left and right because those parties may not actually be the left or right your beliefs associate with. I hope that makes sense! Thanks

hotmail.com

pixelburp wrote: »

I agree but America is big on its institutional pageantry, like a lot of countries with an oversized sense of national identity. They like to flaunt their "traditions" as if they possess power in of themselves. To not have some inauguration at the steps, as you say, would have sent a signal to the insurrectionists that they effectively cowed the Biden admin.

As to the numbers, can we just get a final tally of attendees cos I don't believe for one second there were "thousands" that reads like clear hyperbole. Looked like a couple of hundred at most around the podium.

Well this is the point isn't it. They had to have the event for propaganda reasons.

A CNN background producer exclaimed on twitter that the fireworks would lead to fear in America's foes!

I just see America in general as an extreme country with a dangerous form of nationalism and exceptionalism. Whilst, the Republicans might be worse at it, the Democrats aren't much better.

Eric Cartman

hotmail.com wrote: »

I agree. The media here consistently misrepresent American politics as Left and Right, when it's not a Left/Right in European terms.

Indeed, the Democrats would be FG in Ireland and the Tories in Britain. Although the Tories support the NHS, the Democrats still support private health insurance.

So we have this weird contradiction of Irish people who don't like FG or the Tories but will give their life for the Democrats.

its the policy of 'least worst' I think most europeans view American politics as a toxic corporate backed revolving door dumpster fire that changes at a snails pace no matter who is in charge.

European politics would never work for America, American politics would never work for europe.

Brussels Sprout

I think I'm seeing a trend developing in this thread:

1. Poster makes bad faith argument on some topic that they don't really care about, often a technicality or blatant falsehood of some kind, in order to have a pop off of the new administration
2. Multiple posters take the bait and earnestly debate the point on its merits
3. Poster pivots to a new bad-faith argument
4. Posters respond to new argument
5. Return to Step #3

BredonWimsey

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I think I'm seeing a trend developing in this thread:

1. Poster makes bad faith argument on some topic that they don't really care about, often a technicality or blatant falsehood of some kind, in order to have a pop off of the new administration
2. Multiple posters take the bait and earnestly debate the point on its merits
3. Poster pivots to a new bad-faith argument
4. Posters respond to new argument
5. Return to Step #3

haha correct but isnt that Boards - such a merry go round of fun

hotmail.com

BredonWimsey wrote: »

yes exactly.I just think its so odd. and this is not any judgement on anyone's political affiliation - but for example if someone associates themselves in Ireland or the UK as not falling into the left - they automatically align themselves with Republicanism in the US and then say I support Trump. But Trump then moved away from the Republicans (or vice versa) and now i'd say he will form his own party. i think people should just read policies and really research where they stand on the political spectrum rather than automatically associating with a party that they classify as left and right because those parties may not actually be the left or right your beliefs associate with. I hope that makes sense! Thanks

It does make sense.

The Democrats are socially Liberal and in America this makes them left wing.

However this isn't the case in Ireland and most of Western Europe anymore where right wing parties have embraced socially Liberal views. The Tories introduced gay marriage in 2013 for example.

When it comes to money and economics, spending etc, the Democrats hold conservative views. The Democrats also share the US attitude of multilateralism, support for Israel, anti-Socialism abroad (Biden doesn't recognise Venezuela's president).

What will really show up the American party system is if the Republican Party begins to become more socially Liberal. The Democrats will lose their identity then.

hotmail.com

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I think I'm seeing a trend developing in this thread:

1. Poster makes bad faith argument on some topic that they don't really care about, often a technicality or blatant falsehood of some kind, in order to have a pop off of the new administration
2. Multiple posters take the bait and earnestly debate the point on its merits
3. Poster pivots to a new bad-faith argument
4. Posters respond to new argument
5. Return to Step #3

New to boards?

Eric Cartman

hotmail.com wrote: »

It does make sense.

The Democrats are socially Liberal and in America this makes them left wing.

However this isn't the case in Ireland and most of Western Europe anymore where right wing parties have embraced socially Liberal views. The Tories introduced gay marriage in 2013 for example.

When it comes to money and economics, spending etc, the Democrats hold conservative views. The Democrats also share the US attitude of multilateralism, support for Israel, anti-Socialism abroad (Biden doesn't recognise Venezuela's president).

What will really show up the American party system is if the Republican Party begins to become more socially Liberal. The Democrats will lose their identity then.

The republicans would lose their base then. In a US political sphere eroding your base is probably the worst thing you could do, putting voters back on the fence is costly to get them back every 4 years.

hotmail.com

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The republicans would lose their base then. In a US political sphere eroding your base is probably the worst thing you could do, putting voters back on the fence is costly to get them back every 4 years.

That's true. But with changing demographics in America and the fact they lost the last 4 US presidential elections (in the popular vote) means that they are going to have to face reality and begin the process of liberalisation.

Eric Cartman

hotmail.com wrote: »

That's true. But with changing demographics in America and the fact they lost the last 4 US presidential elections (in the popular vote) means that they are going to have to face reality and begin the process of liberalisation.

To an extent I think it already has, Being anti LGB rights just doesn't sell anymore, they've mostly conceded that. On abortion while publicly saying no, they really have little interest in rocking that boat in any meaningful way.
The GOP is being dragged into social norms, but the dragging is no longer as 'kicking and screaming' as it once was.

Quin_Dub

kowloon wrote: »

Not to seem like one of the Trump supporters who suddenly cares about large gatherings, but I think a more virtual inauguration wouldn't have hurt. All the precautions in the world are still less effective than not having a physical event. But maybe it needed to happen to show the insurrectionists that the new administration was happening whether they liked it or not.

BredonWimsey wrote: »

i think they had to show who was in charge - if they didnt there wouldn't have been a clear transfer of power - but i get ur points.

Agree , even more so after the events of January 6th.

Had it been 100% remote it would have emboldened the fringe , they'd believe that the administration was "running scared" etc.

Sad that this would be the case , but it was important in the context of showing that the process went ahead no matter what.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To an extent I think it already has, Being anti LGB rights just doesn't sell anymore, they've mostly conceded that. On abortion while publicly saying no, they really have little interest in rocking that boat in any meaningful way.
The GOP is being dragged into social norms, but the dragging is no longer as 'kicking and screaming' as it once was.

And not a moment before time.

Let's hope the Democrats plough on with necessary healthcare and climate actions and hopefully this time it won't take the GOP decades to catch up.

y0ssar1an22

BredonWimsey wrote: »

when was that photo taken dude

duploelabs wrote: »

Right so you're taking a photo at face value without any pertinent information available and thus jumping to conclusions

BredonWimsey wrote: »

we dont even know when the photo was taken.


ps its apparent to every intelligent person without an agenda that Biden is taking it seriously - listen to his speeches, look at his policies, he is wearing his mask.

there were a few more, but these are the 1st few rebuttals.

i've got 2 issues.

the flouting of his own law. doesnt set a great example. do as i say, not as i do.

the media completely ignoring this. you all know that if a prior president did this they would be pilloried in the media.


but sher its grand. it was a celebration.

BredonWimsey

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

there were a few more, but these are the 1st few rebuttals.

i've got 2 issues.

the flouting of his own law. doesnt set a great example. do as i say, not as i do.

the media completely ignoring this. you all know that if a prior president did this they would be pilloried in the media.


but sher its grand. it was a celebration.

ok if you win the argument (as I dont have the energy really to continue with debating it) what does it matter? we know the us is a bit if a mess and they are dealing with COVID differently for example people do take off their masks for photos in the US and I assume everyone at the inaguration was tested so they felt it was ok. i mean europe is obviously much stricter than us in their approach we know this. so from the US stand point im sure they felt it was ok - biden and team not dumb so obviously they felt they could justify it. and of course the republicans and democrats continuously bash each other over everything the other side does and yes its hypocritical. but what really is the point? like why should we care? we have enough problems here to deal with.and unless someone has a US connection - what is this fasination with obsessing over the US.

BredonWimsey

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

there were a few more, but these are the 1st few rebuttals.

i've got 2 issues.

the flouting of his own law. doesnt set a great example. do as i say, not as i do.

the media completely ignoring this. you all know that if a prior president did this they would be pilloried in the media.


but sher its grand. it was a celebration.

and i'll add if your argument is correct than the media are ignoring it becuase they have just had a bloody insurrection from trump supporters - they are trying to calm things down a bit. maybe its a good thing that the media might not be so reactive and politicised all the time.

Professor Moriarty

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

there were a few more, but these are the 1st few rebuttals.

i've got 2 issues.

the flouting of his own law. doesnt set a great example. do as i say, not as i do.

the media completely ignoring this. you all know that if a prior president did this they would be pilloried in the media.


but sher its grand. it was a celebration.

Any Biden anti vaxx tweets or statements? Any Biden 'just a flu' tweets or statements? Any Biden 'Virus won't come to the US', 'Sunshine will kill it', Inject disinfectant' tweets or statements?

Now, here is an article that Biden wrote last January. Read it and inform yourself about Biden and Covid-19.

y0ssar1an22

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Any Biden anti vaxx tweets or statements? Any Biden 'just a flu' tweets or statements? Any Biden 'Virus won't come to the US', 'Sunshine will kill it', Inject disinfectant' tweets or statements?

Now, here is an article that Biden wrote last January. Read it and inform yourself about Biden and Covid-19.

none if that is relevant though. the man mandated for masks on federal land and broke those rules a few hours later.

but lets bend over backwards not to criticise him.

"And I will rebuild public trust" from your linked article. how does breaking your new law build public trust?

brendan said it about about why we care so much. i dont really know TBH and mulled it over. our lives are impacted virtually zilch regardless of who the US president is.
maybe its just an interest, like you would be interested in soccer or rugby.

BredonWimsey

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

none if that is relevant though. the man mandated for masks on federal land and broke those rules a few hours later.

but lets bend over backwards not to criticise him.

"And I will rebuild public trust" from your linked article. how does breaking your new law build public trust?

brendan said it about about why we care so much. i dont really know TBH and mulled it over. our lives are impacted virtually zilch regardless of who the US president is.
maybe its just an interest, like you would be interested in soccer or rugby.

fair enough i'm sorry I think I came off rude - you should explore what interests you. i'd say yes ok from a european perspective the photo completely not on but in the US as they treat COVID differently its prob only a big deal to those who want to undermine Biden. anyway enjoy your day.

Water John

Ursula Van Der Ledyen and Boris Johnson took off their masks for that famous photoshoot, she then told him to put it back on straight away after. One suspects similar protocol.

Professor Moriarty

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

none if that is relevant though. the man mandated for masks on federal land and broke those rules a few hours later.

but lets bend over backwards not to criticise him.

"And I will rebuild public trust" from your linked article. how does breaking your new law build public trust?

brendan said it about about why we care so much. i dont really know TBH and mulled it over. our lives are impacted virtually zilch regardless of who the US president is.
maybe its just an interest, like you would be interested in soccer or rugby.

None of that is relevant? Christ. You've taken one tiny issue and deliberately ignored everything else the man has said and done about the pandemic. It's pathetic.