Plant bulbs in pine forest

Kraftwerk

I have a small forested patch with pine trees. It's currently overrun by nettles but I'd like to clear it a bit and sow stuff for spring.

Is it too late to plant? And will bulbs struggle under pine trees? I'd love to sow bluebells, daffodils and snow drops (not sure if they're bulbs though).

As an aside can anyone recommend plants that would suit growing under pine trees? The idea is to have a pathway through the forest with little mounds each side of the path and flowery grove patches beyond the path.

magicbastarder

what sort of pines?

Kraftwerk

magicbastarder wrote: »

what sort of pines?

I'm not sure of the different types. There's one at the back that's bigger and has longer softer needles and the rest are the short, hard needle ones..

macraignil

I think a lot of bulbs are more adapted to deciduous forest where there is an opportunity to start growing and flower before the leaves on the trees are produced in spring. If you were growing somewhere that was not too shaded by the pine trees then some might work. Snow drops are bulbs but they are best planted when they have some leaves on them and do not do as well from dormant bulbs. I remember wild blueberry under conifer trees when I was on holiday before. Just did a quick internet search and this site has a list of suggested plants for under pine trees.
Happy gardening!

Danzy

It will likely be highly acidic under the pine trees.

magicbastarder

reason i asked about the pines was that on the offchance they're larch, it might work as larch are deciduous.

deathbomber

Not to late to plant bulbs but it all depends on the soil, pick up a test kit and it will indicate soil type

Kraftwerk

magicbastarder wrote: »

reason i asked about the pines was that on the offchance they're larch, it might work as larch are deciduous.

They're not larch I don't think.

Kraftwerk

Danzy wrote: »

It will likely be highly acidic under the pine trees.

That seems to be a myth apparently. Pine needles while acidic don't actually cause the soil to be acidic.

blackbox

If there is enough light and fertility for nettles, there should be enough for bulbs.

Reckless Abandonment

From my many walks in the dublin mountains I've seen very few plants that will grow under a pine forest. Ferns /moss is about the hight of it. But it really dose depend how close the trees are to each other. Dose the area get any sunlight?

The Continental Op

Try also Hardy Cyclamen, coum, hederifolium and purpurascens they do well in deep leaf mold and or pine needles.

Snow drops should also feature and I know that for the adventurous Colchicums do really well on a woodland edge. If you plant Colchicums along with daffodils you won't forget were they are and can cut the foliage of both down at the same time.

Edit: May I also suggest a non bulb as a ground cover Cornus canadensis it does particularly well in deep leaf mold along with the above mentioned Cyclamen.

wildwillow

If planting bluebells please make sure you get native bulbs and not the Spanish variety which is invasive and not recommended.

The Continental Op

wildwillow wrote: »

If planting bluebells please make sure you get native bulbs and not the Spanish variety which is invasive and not recommended.

If bluebells aren't present I'd think long and hard before planting them. They have been a feature of all the woodland gardens I've looked after and to be brutally honest were often a pain in the backside.

A good bluebell wood is really attractive but the only thing that looks good with bluebells is more bluebells and more bluebells tend to take over and get into everything you plant.

I have had bluebells growing quite well in fairly mature pine plantations where bit of light gets in but really they are plants that do best in deciduous woodland.

Another little gem worth trying is the native Anemone nemorosa - Wood Anemone (Lus na gaoithe)

magicbastarder

for all the talk of how to deal with what to plant under the pines - are the pines there for commercial gain?

if it's safe to do so, why not start ringbarking them? if the patch is small, as described, it's not worth an awful lot commercially anyway.

Kraftwerk

Reckless Abandonment wrote: »

From my many walks in the dublin mountains I've seen very few plants that will grow under a pine forest. Ferns /moss is about the hight of it. But it really dose depend how close the trees are to each other. Dose the area get any sunlight?

There's a fair bit of space between the trees. Over the years some have died or been blown over in storm which had opened it up a bit. One patch does get a bit of direct sunlight through a clearing but the rest just what filters through the branches. It's not dark or anything.

Kraftwerk

The Continental Op wrote: »

If bluebells aren't present I'd think long and hard before planting them. They have been a feature of all the woodland gardens I've looked after and to be brutally honest were often a pain in the backside.

A good bluebell wood is really attractive but the only thing that looks good with bluebells is more bluebells and more bluebells tend to take over and get into everything you plant.

I have had bluebells growing quite well in fairly mature pine plantations where bit of light gets in but really they are plants that do best in deciduous woodland.

Another little gem worth trying is the native Anemone nemorosa - Wood Anemone (Lus na gaoithe)

Thanks for the recommendations I'll look into those. I really just want it somewhat decent looking with a bit of color. There's a patch of trees nearby which hasn't been touched in years and every spring it's filled with blue bells, snow drops and daffodils. I was hoping to replicate that. Sow a few things and just let it do its thing.

Kraftwerk

magicbastarder wrote: »

for all the talk of how to deal with what to plant under the pines - are the pines there for commercial gain?

if it's safe to do so, why not start ringbarking them? if the patch is small, as described, it's not worth an awful lot commercially anyway.

There's not for commercial gain no. They are just some protection from the wind.

What's the idea of ring barking them? To kill the tree?

The Continental Op

Kraftwerk wrote: »

Thanks for the recommendations I'll look into those. I really just want it somewhat decent looking with a bit of color. There's a patch of trees nearby which hasn't been touched in years and every spring it's filled with blue bells, snow drops and daffodils. I was hoping to replicate that. Sow a few things and just let it do its thing.

Well next spring there's your source of snowdrops. Nothing wrong in digging a few big old clumps up just after or during flowering. Split the clumps down to single bulbs (or whatever is convenient) and replant half in the original wood spreading them out a bit more and the other half in your new bit. Win Win for everyone.

To plant single bulbs you don't need to do anymore than make a slit in the ground and push the bulb end a few inches into the ground leaving the green bit sticking out.

You can divide up snowdrops every three or so years so it doesn't take long to spread them around to good effect.

wildwillow

I actually don't agree with planting garden plants in the wild but I think your little wood is not really wild. Wood anemones are the best suggestion here.


The fact that nettles have thrived means there is enough light for other planting.
Please keep to native plants that won't migrate.

You might consider planting deciduous native trees where there are large gaps.
That will give diversity and still allow for spring flowers.

magicbastarder

Kraftwerk wrote: »

There's not for commercial gain no. They are just some protection from the wind.

What's the idea of ring barking them? To kill the tree?

ah, i wasn't sure if you'd 'inherited' the patch, didn't realise they were there for a reason.
ringbarking them would leave them dead standing, and allow you to start underplanting with other plants with the intention of the new plants 'succeeding' the pines.

Kraftwerk

wildwillow wrote: »

I actually don't agree with planting garden plants in the wild but I think your little wood is not really wild. Wood anemones are the best suggestion here.


The fact that nettles have thrived means there is enough light for other planting.
Please keep to native plants that won't migrate.

You might consider planting deciduous native trees where there are large gaps.
That will give diversity and still allow for spring flowers.

Yeah it's more a patch of trees on the boundary than a wild forest area. And I'm trying to use it as an extension of the garden by making the pathway through and sowing some flowers.

In the larger patches where there's more light there's a few different trees that have been planted. Oak, Ash, chestnut and beech I think. But they're still pretty young.

Kraftwerk

magicbastarder wrote: »

ah, i wasn't sure if you'd 'inherited' the patch, didn't realise they were there for a reason.
ringbarking them would leave them dead standing, and allow you to start underplanting with other plants with the intention of the new plants 'succeeding' the pines.

Would that work for the other deciduous trees? Once they're of a decent size, ring bark the pines to kill off the cover and let the light down to the smaller trees?

I presume they'd need to be cut down then after a certain time to avoid them rotting and falling?

magicbastarder

i think it works for any tree. wouldn't need to be cut down per se, unless you were worried about it doing damage as it fell, so location would be key.

looksee

As has been said, if there are nettles you have a reasonable choice of plants - nettles grow best in good soil - we have masses of nettles and everywhere we have cleared, the nettle roots come up easily out of old natural compost from years of fallen leaves. If you like the look of what is in the other piece of woodland then do the same in yours.

If you have any rights to the other woodland, taking green snowdrops and immediately replanting them is the best way to go. I would be inclined to go with small daffodils, the leaves from the big ones hang on for ages and look untidy. Bluebells - the native ones, don't plant Spanish - are pretty but very brief then the leaves are straggly for a long time, like daffodils. Wood anemones, oxalis (wood sorrel), violets, ferns, wild strawberries in the sunnier spots - lots of possibilities. If you look carefully you may find there are other wild plants than nettles that might be worth preserving. And no harm to leave a patch of nettles (though tbh you will not have a lot of choice ) for butterflies.

magicbastarder

by the sounds of it, the nettles will be a bigger issue than the trees, if it's currently overrun.

Kraftwerk

looksee wrote: »

As has been said, if there are nettles you have a reasonable choice of plants - nettles grow best in good soil - we have masses of nettles and everywhere we have cleared, the nettle roots come up easily out of old natural compost from years of fallen leaves. If you like the look of what is in the other piece of woodland then do the same in yours.

If you have any rights to the other woodland, taking green snowdrops and immediately replanting them is the best way to go. I would be inclined to go with small daffodils, the leaves from the big ones hang on for ages and look untidy. Bluebells - the native ones, don't plant Spanish - are pretty but very brief then the leaves are straggly for a long time, like daffodils. Wood anemones, oxalis (wood sorrel), violets, ferns, wild strawberries in the sunnier spots - lots of possibilities. If you look carefully you may find there are other wild plants than nettles that might be worth preserving. And no harm to leave a patch of nettles (though tbh you will not have a lot of choice ) for butterflies.

Yeah I've been pulling some of the nettles today and they do come up quite easily. I don't have any rights to the other woodland but I know the owner and I'm sure he'd be happy for me to take a few bits and pieces.

Kraftwerk

magicbastarder wrote: »

by the sounds of it, the nettles will be a bigger issue than the trees, if it's currently overrun.

There are some other weeds and stuff there too. Dock leaf, hogweed, wild grass and some other leafy green weed covering patches of the ground. So the nettles don't cover everything but they are thick in clumps and spread all around.

It won't take much effort to clear them out given they pull up easily but I guess they're going to keep coming back regardless of what I do. Maybe some of the ground cover options mentioned previously would go some way to keeping them at bay in future once the new plants are established?

The Continental Op

Kraftwerk wrote: »

Yeah I've been pulling some of the nettles today and they do come up quite easily. I don't have any rights to the other woodland but I know the owner and I'm sure he'd be happy for me to take a few bits and pieces.

I may not have made it clear in my other post about snowdrops, you should replant say half of them on the original site. Divide them up on the old site and put them in new spots. Each one of those new spots even with a single bulb planted has the potential to become another massive clump to divide up down the line. So my point is you do some work and benefit the original site as well as your own.