Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

robinph

fly_agaric wrote: »

The claims were Russia put a thumb on the scales by spreading pro Trump messages via trolls/bots and used its hackers to obtain information [and that one campaign team was quite willing to deal with them to get dirt on the other candidate]. It was not that Putin got men to stuff ballot boxes.

If US courts somehow do what Trump supporters hope and keep him in power despite the result, well the US has undergone the final change into what all the angry lefties have claimed it was for many years.

Exactly.

Foreigners funding political parties in another country isnt allowed in many places and would be considered foreign interference and illegal. Nobody claimed in 2016 that actual fake votes were made, except for Trump who couldn't belive that others wouldn't do something dodgy because that's what he was doing being funded by Russia and having foreign trolls working on his behalf.

vojiwox

Deleted User wrote: »

The return to decency is an illusion.

https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1325622342370922496

Any good Documentaries on the Iraq War, I hadn't realised Joe Biden started the Iraq War!

(as an aside Generation Kill is a great drama)

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

The return to decency is an illusion.

https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1325622342370922496

Ok, that's a tweet by a very angry person who knows he's right.

I'd love to see the Biden Brigade debate this woman.


https://twitter.com/ChuckModi1/status/1325280309873696768

Non solum non ambulabit

WrenBoy wrote: »

2016: Not My President, Russia hacked the election !!
2017: Not my President
2018: Not my President
2019: Not my President
2020: Why wont they accept the result ?

:pac: America is a basket case.

Russia spread lies on Social media ahead of the election. FACT.

Russia didn't hack the election in 2016. FACT

Trump said there were millions and fake votes cast in 2016. FACT.

Trump won't accept result of 2020 election. FACT

Smee_Again

is_that_so wrote: »

You're never going to get everyone on board as YouTube and the like provide a platform for all manner of citizen "journalism" and self-righteousness. What they can do is push for bi-partisan efforts to address and reduce the conflict points of voter suppression and alleged fraud. It's that approach of finding things we agree on and a calmer 4 years may help ease tensions as well.

The problem with that is that it would work against the Republican party. They are already losing the popular vote despite all their voter suppression so while many in the party may not want to be saddled with the conspiracy nuts they're also not willing to adjust their conservative ideals in order to attract new voters.

Which means they have to engage in increased suppression and keeping the voters they do have i.e. conspiracy nuts.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

The return to decency is an illusion.

https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1325622342370922496

The chap makes a lot of very valid points. As he says at the end "they got rid of Trump and they're giving you the architect of the system that gave you Trump".

And of course it's an illusion. Biden won and Trump is gone and that seems to be the understandable yippee that people are taking away from it(other than Trump supporters), but the reasons for Trump aren't. If anything the divisiveness has gotten deeper. Trump didn't magically fall out of the sky. He's only the orange symptom of a much deeper and nastier disease that afflicts American culture and politics.

Now one might excuse half of America's voters getting him in as an alternative the first time around, though if Trump is seen as an alternative the standard fare must be pretty bloody awful. However, having seen him in action over the last four years, damned near half still thought he did a good enough job and wanted to see him stay on. He even increased his vote in some demographics like Hispanic folks. That this race was such a close run thing should speak volumes. I'd bet in another universe where covid didn't hit Trump would be looking at his second term.

And Trump is a loud buffoon ranting inconsistencies and nonsense, yet still got in and has a large support base among American voters. What were the figures again? Biden won with 74 million votes, Trump lost with 70 million. Now imagine a "better" Trump coming along. One more agreeable, more astute, more political, "nicer", but spouting the same or worse than Trump. He could walk right into the Oval office.

And remember too that Trump is still head of the Republican party. And like the toddler he is won't take this loss lightly and will likely double down. The party may grumble, but not when Trump it seems alone can command such a large chunk of the voting population. The Democrats may have the White House, but they lost seats in the House and the Senate isn't theirs. The chairman has gone, but the majority of the board of directors are still the same.

America has always been the culture of contradictions and one of the biggest is the contradiction between what it thinks it is and what it actually is and this election was that writ large. And IMHO that contradiction is getting larger and more dangerous.

duploelabs

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Russia spread lies on Social media ahead of the election. FACT.

Yep

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Russia didn't hack the election in 2016. FACT

False, many bipartisan committees found that they did

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Trump said there were millions and fake votes cast in 2016. FACT.

Indeed trump did say this, however this is not fact

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Trump won't accept result of 2020 election. FACT

Well no, one is disputing the tantrum trump is pulling here

ohnonotgmail

Wibbs wrote: »

The chap makes a lot of very valid points. As he says at the end "they got rid of Trump and they're giving you the architect of the system that gave you Trump".

And of course it's an illusion. Biden won and Trump is gone and that seems to be the understandable yippee that people are taking away from it(other than Trump supporters), but the reasons for Trump aren't. If anything the divisiveness has gotten deeper. Trump didn't magically fall out of the sky. He's only the orange symptom of a much deeper and nastier disease that afflicts American culture and politics.

Now one might excuse half of America's voters getting him in as an alternative the first time around, though if Trump is seen as an alternative the standard fare must be pretty bloody awful. However, having seen him in action over the last four years, damned near half still thought he did a good enough job and wanted to see him stay on. He even increased his vote in some demographics like Hispanic folks. That this race was such a close run thing should speak volumes. I'd bet in another universe where covid didn't hit Trump would be looking at his second term.

And Trump is a loud buffoon ranting inconsistencies and nonsense, yet still got in and has a large support base among American voters. What were the figures again? Biden won with 74 million votes, Trump lost with 70 million. Now imagine a "better" Trump coming along. One more agreeable, more astute, more political, "nicer", but spouting the same or worse than Trump. He could walk right into the Oval office.

And remember too that Trump is still head of the Republican party. And like the toddler he is won't take this loss lightly and will likely double down. The party may grumble, but not when Trump it seems alone can command such a large chunk of the voting population. The Democrats may have the White House, but they lost seats in the House and the Senate isn't theirs. The chairman has gone, but the majority of the board of directors are still the same.

America has always been the culture of contradictions and one of the biggest is the contradiction between what it thinks it is and what it actually is and this election was that writ large. And IMHO that contradiction is getting larger and more dangerous.

at present it isn't. that may change in January.

VinLieger

Just so we're clear the argument is that there was fraud on the presidential ballots? But not on the senate or house ballots whose results the republicans seem perfectly happy with?

Even though they are all literally on the same single ballot.....

Quin_Dub

I genuinely worry what is going to happen in the US later this week.

Trump is going to lodge his multitude of spurious court cases today/tomorrow and as each one gets bounced out for lack of evidence as the week progresses it becomes more and more likely that some fringe idiots will do something really dangerous.

That coupled with Trump tweeting away furiously and him potentially holding rallies/pity parties in those key States/Cities the place is a potential powder keg.

ohnonotgmail

duploelabs wrote: »

Yep

False, many bipartisan committees found that they did

did they find that the russians interfered in the election or that the russians hacked the election? very different things. they definitely interfered in the election and they definitely hacked information that helped them to do that but they didnt hack the election itself.

duploelabs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

did they find that the russians interfered in the election or that the russians hacked the election? very different things. they definitely interfered in the election and they definitely hacked information that helped them to do that but they didnt hack the election itself.

Depends if you consider Manafort handing voter data to the IRA 'hacked'

perrito caliente

Lucy8080 wrote: »

I like this post for "balance". But, when , 'Murica" goes to war they go together. Regardless of Dems/Repubs.

Nobody, of any progressive mindset, was interested in the likes of Saddam/Bin Laden .The Iraqi's pulled "Saddam's" statue down and those Iraqi's defended Christians against what followed. I don't think folks acknowledge those "Muslims" ,as much as they should.

Been a while since I saw one of you people but it's absolutely chilling. When Biden starts a war somewhere no doubt you and your friends will all come out of the woodwork talking about human rights violations in a country you've never heard of and the necessity of acting now before it's too late. All singing from the same hymn sheet as thousands of people are murdered.

lemonTrees

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I genuinely worry what is going to happen in the US later this week.

Trump is going to lodge his multitude of spurious court cases today/tomorrow and as each one gets bounced out for lack of evidence as the week progresses it becomes more and more likely that some fringe idiots will do something really dangerous.

That coupled with Trump tweeting away furiously and him potentially holding rallies/pity parties in those key States/Cities the place is a potential powder keg.

Nothing will happen. The only violence Americans would have been concerned about would have come from a Trump win.

duploelabs

ElitesTeam wrote: »

No they didnt, keep up with the facts will you

https://time.com/5565991/russia-influence-2016-election/

have you a source for your 'alternative facts'?

namloc1980

VinLieger wrote: »

Just so we're clear the argument is that there was fraud on the presidential ballots? But not on the senate or house ballots whose results the republicans seem perfectly happy with?

Even though they are all literally on the same single ballot.....

Yeah that's about it. Going to be entertaining seeing Rudy and the other Trump lawyers getting laughed out of court this week if they keep bringing these frivolous lawsuits.

Wibbs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

at present it isn't. that may change in January.

Unless the Democrats make big inroads in the US senate they're still up against the Senate filibuster stuff which means you need 60 out of a 100 senators to agree on a vote, rather than a basic majority. 56 say Yay and nope. Unless that gets reformed - and Turkeys won't vote for Christmas - then it'll be an empty victory.

BringBackMick

Trump is to go on the road.

Election campaign type rallies around the US to stoke up more division.

perrito caliente

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

some people support trump because he is racist. Others support trump despite him being racist. It usually isn't hard to figure out who is who.

I'm assuming you think the hundreds of thousands of African Americans and ethnic minorities that voted for Trump are in the latter camp then. So according to you they must be pretty stupid.

stoneill

Strange that all those who are complaining about voter fraud say nothing about the house or senate votes even though they are on the same polling card.

Lucy8080

VinLieger wrote: »

Just so we're clear the argument is that there was fraud on the presidential ballots? But not on the senate or house ballots whose results the republicans seem perfectly happy with?

Even though they are all literally on the same single ballot.....

5 Million ahead on popular vote and rising. It is shocking that parts of the U.S.A. are blinding themselves to that obvious fact. As one poster here said, that figure might be on it's way to Six-Million.

ohnonotgmail

duploelabs wrote: »

Depends if you consider Manafort handing voter data to the IRA 'hacked'

the IRA? not sure who you mean by that. either way the russians didnt hack the election itself.

perrito caliente

perrito caliente wrote: »

I'm assuming you think the hundreds of thousands of African Americans and ethnic minorities that voted for Trump are in the latter camp then. So according to you they must be pretty stupid.

Yes, they are in the latter camp. Someone who is ignorant and/or gullible is not necessarily stupid.

namloc1980

BringBackMick wrote: »

Trump is to go on the road.

Election campaign type rallies around the US to stoke up more division.

The only thing he'll be remembered for is how he dealt with this moment. Nixon did some good things in office but is only really remembered for leaving the office in disgrace. Trump will forever be the only US President to refuse to accept the outcome of an election - what a legacy to leave.

ohnonotgmail

Wibbs wrote: »

Unless the Democrats make big inroads in the US senate they're still up against the Senate filibuster stuff which means you need 60 out of a 100 senators to agree on a vote, rather than a basic majority. 56 say Yay and nope. Unless that gets reformed - and Turkeys won't vote for Christmas - then it'll be an empty victory.

they cant filibuster certain votes, in particular votes on judicial appointments.

bocaman

Pack your bags Donnie. The show is over.

ohnonotgmail

perrito caliente wrote: »

I'm assuming you think the hundreds of thousands of African Americans and ethnic minorities that voted for Trump are in the latter camp then. So according to you they must be pretty stupid.

turkeys voting for christmas

duploelabs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the IRA? not sure who you mean by that. either way the russians didnt hack the election itself.

Not the irish 'Ra, the 'internet research agency'
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions-idUSKCN26E2HO

Mitch Connor

ElitesTeam wrote: »

They aint black if they didnt vote for Biden, according to Biden and his fans

"According to Biden"

Gonna need a source on that one. A rather massive accusation against Biden you have made there.