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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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  • Options
    #3812
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 18,080 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    perrito caliente wrote: »
    Been a while since I saw one of you people but it's absolutely chilling. When Biden starts a war somewhere no doubt you and your friends will all come out of the woodwork talking about human rights violations in a country you've never heard of and the necessity of acting now before it's too late. All singing from the same hymn sheet as thousands of people are murdered.

    Some people have an extremely poor grasp of complex situations, and as such dilute them down to simplistic black/white narratives, which they use to attack their "other side" whether that be an administration, a party or an entire country.


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    #3813
    perrito caliente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭perrito caliente


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    The only thing he'll be remembered for is how he dealt with this moment. Nixon did some good things in office but is only really remembered for leaving the office in disgrace


    Wishful thinking on your part I'm afraid. The man is very widely loved by a massive, massive amount of Americans (in a way that, for example, Biden isn't and will never be). There is every chance he will be back in four years and who would bet against him winning a second term.


  • Options
    #3814
    lemonTrees
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 105 ✭✭lemonTrees


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    turkeys voting for christmas

    So you are comparing African Americans to turkeys?


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    #3815
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,464 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    ElitesTeam wrote: »
    They aint black if they didnt vote for Biden, according to Biden and his fans

    Care to back up your claims about lack of russian interference in the 2016 election?


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    #3816
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭randd1


    BringBackMick wrote: »
    Trump is to go on the road.

    Election campaign type rallies around the US to stoke up more division.

    It's not, it's to stoke up funds to pay for his considerable campaign debt under the guise of raising funds for a legal challenge.


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    #3817
    lemonTrees
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 105 ✭✭lemonTrees


    bocaman wrote: »
    Pack your bags Donnie. The show is over.

    You do realise he's the President until January.


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    #3818
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,674 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Wibbs wrote: »
    That this race was such a close run thing should speak volumes. I'd bet in another universe where covid didn't hit Trump would be looking at his second term.

    In terms of elections between two candidates, this really wasn't that close. Sure in terms of some of the key states, but he lost them and lost the popular vote by 5m and could be more.

    Trump was the incumbent, which historically is a very big advantage, had the use of the bully pulpit throughout, and yet still got pretty soundly beaten.

    In a democratic environment such as the US, where close to 80% of votes are already decided based on party, then posting by 3 or 4 % points out of the remaining 20% is actually pretty significant.

    The fact that the GOP did well in the House and Senate shows that in terms of policies the voters are not pushing back against the conservative values, so one can only conclude that it was Trump that was the problem.

    The polls, and the overall view in places such as this thread, that Trump is a disaster, means that many were expecting a total landslide. But that very rarely happens. Trump has been soundly beaten, it is a pretty big loss and against what many, including Trump, described as a terrible candidate.

    As you pointed out Biden is part of the past, a past that Trump seemingly was going to get rid of in 2016. That such a 'relic' of the old Washington Elite, Biden would be a classic case of the political class, was not only able to beat Trump, but beat him so convincingly tells you everything.

    It doesn't mean the country is healed, it doesn't mean the problems go away. And the increase in votes for Trump is certainly a noteworthy achievement for Trump, but if one takes the 2016 as a mandate for change when Trump actually lost the popular vote, then one must accept that a win by 5m or more is a massive endorsement for Biden


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    #3819
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    lemonTrees wrote: »
    Nothing will happen. The only violence Americans would have been concerned about would have come from a Trump win.

    I wish I shared your confidence.

    Whilst it may be true to say that the "left" in the US are perhaps more pre-disposed to having public protests turn violent. There is absolutely no question that the right are orders of magnitude more likely to carry out a terrorist type event - Bombing, Mass shootings etc.

    In fact , I don't think there has ben a single incident of domestic terrorism in the US that was not linked to the Far right , except for maybe the Unabomber.

    I'm not worried that Trump supporters will start a riot. That's unlikely , but not impossible.

    I'm worried that a Trump supporter will try to plant a bomb in a count centre or try to shoot someone - An Election official of a Judge that ruled against a Trump appeal etc.

    That is far from impossible or unlikely sadly.


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    #3820
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    is_that_so wrote: »
    You're never going to get everyone on board as YouTube and the like provide a platform for all manner of citizen "journalism" and self-righteousness. What they can do is push for bi-partisan efforts to address and reduce the conflict points of voter suppression and alleged fraud. It's that approach of finding things we agree on and a calmer 4 years may help ease tensions as well.

    If any leader came out and exposed the tactics that they use with fb and Google advertising and went for a clean up if the entire industry. Made the whole thing much more transparent then they would get my absolute respect.

    But this would need to be a cross party effort.

    People don't understand the tools of manipulation. Most people think Google is a search engine ffs..

    And no one wants to talk about it because if they do, the other side will exploit it and they won't be able to use the tactics in the future.
    The advisors that pedal this sh!t won't do it because they will be out of a job.
    And actually, I'm not even sure the people who benefit most understand it (Biden/Trump etc)


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    #3821
    perrito caliente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭perrito caliente


    lemonTrees wrote: »
    You do realise he's the President until January.




    Oh course they don't. These people live in the 'now'. They're oblivious to politics really.


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    #3822
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,474 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Not the irish 'Ra, the 'internet research agency'
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions-idUSKCN26E2HO

    so yeah, they hacked information that the russians used to interfere in the election.


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    #3823
    newport2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭newport2


    bocaman wrote: »
    Pack your bags Donnie. The show is over.

    Bye Don


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    #3824
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    lemonTrees wrote: »
    You do realise he's the President until January.

    Are those lemons on your trees nice and bitter?


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    #3825
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they cant filibuster certain votes, in particular votes on judicial appointments.
    True, but with damned near everything else of import they can.
    bocaman wrote: »
    Pack your bags Donnie. The show is over.
    His show is. For the moment. His 48 or whatever percent of support is still there. He's still the leader of their Republican party and I don't see any alternatives that would challenge his popularity. If and when one comes along they could be much worse, if more palatable.

    Celebrating trump going doesn't have to mean celebrating Biden winning. They can be mutually exclusive. For American politics to change, American politics has to well... change and that means a large chunk of American culture has to change with it and I'm not expecting that any time soon.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #3826
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    perrito caliente wrote: »
    Wishful thinking on your part I'm afraid. The man is very widely loved by a massive, massive amount of Americans (in a way that, for example, Biden isn't and will never be). There is every chance he will be back in four years and who would bet against him winning a second term.

    He lost the popular vote by many many millions twice! Very loved indeed. :pac:

    And again the only US President to refuse to accept election defeat - what a massive loser baby he truly is.


  • Options
    #3827
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,474 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Wibbs wrote: »
    True, but with damned near everything else of import they can.

    His show is. For the moment. His 48 or whatever percent of support is still there. He's still the leader of their Republican party and I don't see any alternatives that would challenge his popularity. If and when one comes along they could be much worse, if more palatable.

    Celebrating trump going doesn't have to mean celebrating Biden winning. They can be mutually exclusive. For American politics to change, American politics has to well... change and that means a large chunk of American culture has to change with it and I'm not expecting that any time soon.

    If the filibuster was such an effective tactic then the DEMs would have used it extensively.


  • Options
    #3828
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    randd1 wrote: »
    It's not, it's to stoke up funds to pay for his considerable campaign debt under the guise of raising funds for a legal challenge.
    That's it. It's all a grift. From now until the end of January, Trump will be asking for money wherever he can to use as his going away present. If he get 1000 idiots to give him $1000 per lawsuit, then he'll be walking away with millions even after paying off his campaign debt. The lawsuits are irrelevant; a win would be nice, but he's not filing them for any reason except to part fools with their money.


  • Options
    #3829
    perrito caliente
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭perrito caliente


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    He lost the popular vote by many many millions twice! Very loved indeed. :pac:

    And again the only US President to refuse to accept election defeat - what a massive loser baby he truly is.


    Tell yourself whatever you need to hear. I am simply stating a fact and if you reflect, you will know it to be true. You can't fit the world to suit your emotions I'm afraid, something that you, no doubt, will accuse Trump of doing.


  • Options
    #3830
    vojiwox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭vojiwox


    Wibbs wrote: »
    True, but with damned near everything else of import they can.

    His show is. For the moment. His 48 or whatever percent of support is still there. He's still the leader of their Republican party and I don't see any alternatives that would challenge his popularity. If and when one comes along they could be much worse, if more palatable.

    I presume a big chunk of it is voting republican regardless. They are not necessarily fans of Trump.

    Will he stay head of the Republican Party after January? Is he actually considered the head yes?


  • Options
    #3831
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    If the filibuster was such an effective tactic then the DEMs would have used it extensively.

    Can't use the filibuster when McConnell and his cronies refuse to bring House of Reps bills to the floor for debate. There are literally hundreds of House bills that have been sent over to the Senate and McConnell has refused to being them to the floor.

    https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-grim-reaper-395-house-bills-senate-wont-pass-1487401


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    #3832
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Wibbs wrote: »
    His show is. For the moment. His 48 or whatever percent of support is still there. He's still the leader of their Republican party and I don't see any alternatives that would challenge his popularity. If and when one comes along they could be much worse, if more palatable.

    Celebrating trump going doesn't have to mean celebrating Biden winning. They can be mutually exclusive. For American politics to change, American politics has to well... change and that means a large chunk of American culture has to change with it and I'm not expecting that any time soon.

    Agreed. The next batch of GOP presidential candidates in 2024 will be courting his base, and likely Trump himself for his support. They'll lean into everything Trump was, said and did, but they'll do it in a less egregious way, more finely skirting the lines of acceptability than Trump himself did and likely without his baggage.

    Trump may not be back, but even if 2024 doesn't include a Trump on the ticket (Don again or one of the kids), Trumpism will be a core strategy for whoever the GOP candidate is.


  • Options
    #3833
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    perrito caliente wrote: »
    Tell yourself whatever you need to hear. I am simply stating a fact and if you reflect, you will know it to be true. You can't fit the world to suit your emotions I'm afraid, something that you, no doubt, will accuse Trump of doing.

    Did he or did he not lose the popular vote twice by milions of votes?


  • Options
    #3834
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,474 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    He lost the popular vote by many many millions twice! Very loved indeed. :pac:

    And again the only US President to refuse to accept election defeat - what a massive loser baby he truly is.

    The only 1 term president to be impeached, lose the popular vote twice and then refuse to concede defeat. We may never see his like again.


  • Options
    #3835
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    ElitesTeam wrote: »
    I can taste so much salt

    Well stop crying then


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    #3836
    vojiwox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭vojiwox


    stoneill wrote: »
    Strange that all those who are complaining about voter fraud say nothing about the house or senate votes even though they are on the same polling card.

    It's scary how easily they have latched on to this fraud story, when IMO it has so many holes in it.

    But there is history of this in Trump's presidency, many of them seem to live in this fantasy land where they will defend whatever he suggests to the hilt. There is no talking to someone who will just believe what someone says when it is based on no evidence and frankly no logic. He is shouting FRAUD!!!, but also shouting I got all these votes, more than Obama!!!, we are doing great in the senate!!! :confused:

    I find it so hard to get my head around.


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    #3837
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wibbs wrote: »
    For American politics to change, American politics has to well... change and that means a large chunk of American culture has to change with it and I'm not expecting that any time soon.

    They need to get rid of the electoral college. But republicans will never agree to that until at least one of the following occurs:
    • Democrats win three terms in a row (most likely)
    • Texas becomes consistently blue (somewhat likely)
    • Democrats don't win the popular vote but still win the electoral college (least likely)

    Until the electoral college is gone, America will continue to give power to those who haven't properly and democratically earned it.


  • Options
    #3838
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Penn wrote: »
    Agreed. The next batch of GOP presidential candidates in 2024 will be courting his base, and likely Trump himself for his support. They'll lean into everything Trump was, said and did, but they'll do it in a less egregious way, more finely skirting the lines of acceptability than Trump himself did and likely without his baggage.

    Trump may not be back, but even if 2024 doesn't include a Trump on the ticket (Don again or one of the kids), Trumpism will be a core strategy for whoever the GOP candidate is.

    To be fair, some of Trump's policies yielded results. Some of those were indisputably good (increase in income of lower earners, GDP growth, stock market surging) and others were what a large percentage of voters wanted (tougher on immigration, renegotiation of trade and environmental deals).

    The issue with Trump is how he conducted himself and that made him toxic to a lot of people. However, if the Republicans can find a candidate who keeps a lot of the same policies but is a bit more polished, they will have a very viable candidate for the Presidency in 2024.

    It's very easy to dismiss Trump as a clueless, ignorant buffoon. He makes it very easy to do that himself. But he's tapped into something in the US that a lot of voters seem to want.


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    #3839
    vojiwox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭vojiwox


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    The only 1 term president to be impeached, lose the popular vote twice and then refuse to concede defeat.

    That is quite the achievement!

    But of course it's everyone else's fault. :pac:


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    #3840
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    biko wrote: »
    Washington times October - Judicial Watch finds 1.8 million 'ghost voters' in 29 states, warns of 'dirty elections'

    Judicial Watch has released a comparison study of Census Bureau population statistics and state voter registration data to reveal a notable disparity. The watch dog group is now warning of potential voter fraud and “dirty” voter rolls.

    The study found that 352 U.S. counties in 29 states managed to have 1.8 million more registered voters than eligible voting-age citizens.

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/20/judicial-watch-finds-18-million-ghost-voters-in-29/
    The leader you spent the last few years supporting lost. Not only that, but the efforts we all knew (yourself very much included there) he would make to try to ignore democracy and declare himself the winner anyway are failing and gaining much less support from his colleagues than some worried (and others hoped) they would.

    Get over it, he lost. The American people saw how damaging it was to them and their nation, and rejected Trumpism.


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    #3841
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Can't use the filibuster when McConnell and his cronies refuse to bring House of Reps bills to the floor for debate. There are literally hundreds of House bills that have been sent over to the Senate and McConnell has refused to being them to the floor.

    https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-grim-reaper-395-house-bills-senate-wont-pass-1487401

    It's this bit that I really don't understand about the US system.

    How can one person basically control all Legislation in the US.

    Currently if McConnell doesn't like it , it doesn't get a vote. It's crazy.

    It would be just as crazy if Schumer was in charge and doing the same thing.

    Surely if a piece of legislation has come through one side , the other side must be obligated to at least vote on it?

    What's McConnell so worried about??

    Just a crazy crazy system.


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