Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

Carfacemandog

DeanAustin wrote: »

Well, look, maybe that's a fair argument. But then you'd have to make the same arguments against Obama's presidency and the achievements he claims. I find people move these goalposts to suit their argument.

The Federal Bureau of Statistics say unemployment was at a 50 year low under Trump's presidency. I'll take that as a solid stat. If we can't use that statistic then there is no point discussing any achievement of any President because there will always be a way to cast some sort of doubt.

I'm curious which of Obama's claims are you referring to specifically? There may well be some examples, just can't think of them off hand.

namloc1980

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Investigate what though?

There has been absolutely Zero evidence put forward as to how or why any of the things they are talking about would impact the results.

Basically they seem have 3 main angles.

Late Arriving Ballots in PA are "illegal" - They aren't (yet), multiple courts have said they are fine thus far . But more importantly , Counted or not Counted , they do not change the result. Biden is already ahead by 45k+ votes with them not yet included.

So , it's a possibly valid argument to have in terms of PA Electoral law for future elections. It is absolutely not a reason to hold up the Transition of Power to the new administration.


"Dead People" Voted (Mostly in Nevada it would seem ) - Again , absolutely zero evidence here. Yes , there are dead people still on the Electoral Register , but that does not mean that a vote was cast in their name and it certainly doesn't mean that the requisite 10,00 plus votes needed to change the Nevada result are all dead people.

"Out of State" people voted (again , seemingly Nevada) - This seems to be based on the fact that a large number of people moved out of Nevada due to the lay-offs in the Hotel/Casino business. That may be true , but for those votes to be illegal they would have to show that those people registered to vote somewhere else. Not living in the state does not make their vote illegal (Trump voting in Florida anyone?). Again - Are their 10,000 people that left Nevada during the shut-down and that re-registered to vote somewhere else??

For the last two - It's all about the evidence and so far there has been absolutely none put forward. The few pathetic affidavits etc. that they have brought forward in the 10 cases that they've had already show that they have absolutely nothing.

I won't even dignify the "burning ballots" and "Truck loads of fake ballots" tripe with analysis.

And none of those issues are fraud. Procedural issues sure if proven but not fraud that would delegitimize the entire election.

The Raging Bile Duct

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

This is the response to most things in political forums, As all sources seem to be partisan if you are on the other side of the argument all the sources you will watch/read will be ignored by your opposition and vice versa, In an idea world all the American news should run with what Trump is saying and investigate, if everything is fake then show why but at the moment they just choose to purposely ignore it as they are afraid, this will not satisfy the millions of people who support Trump, A clean election with a clear winner would have, but that is not what happened.

Do you mean a clean election with a clear winner like last time where Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million - all illegal votes according to Trump - but won three swings by fewer than 80,000 thousand votes?

Giving Trump free rein to say whatever bullshít he wants to try and denigrate the legitimacy of the election is extremely dangerous.

paleoperson

astrofool wrote: »

The funny thing is, by comparing trump to the healy-raes, it's really really hard to figure out who's on the worse end of that comparison

Not true at all - the Healy-Raes were campaigning for rural areas to have special laws to allow drink driving on rural roads and denying climate change full stop. Trump has been claimed as denying climate change but he always refutes that. You're talking about another league with the Healy Raes.

jimmycrackcorm

I was amused about Trump coming out very early on in the count to say that he'd be going to the supreme court. Apart from the fact that you can't go straight to that without going through the lower courts and that they have to pass it on up, it's simply laughable that he appears to believe that because he appointed three of them that automatically they will have his back. Straight out of his I'll scratch your back book.

Cody montana

Dow set to soar 1,500 points after Pfizer says its Covid-19 vaccine is 90% effective.

Well done Joe!

astrofool

paleoperson wrote: »

Not true at all - the Healy-Raes were campaigning for rural areas to have special laws to allow drink driving on rural roads and denying climate change full stop. Trump has been claimed as denying climate change but he always refutes that. You're talking about another league with the Healy Raes.

So you're agreeing that trump is a slightly better leader than the healy-raes.

Quin_Dub

namloc1980 wrote: »

And none of those issues are fraud. Procedural issues sure if proven but not fraud that would delegitimize the entire election.

Well - For the last two , there *could* be fraud.

If someone submitted a vote on behalf of the still registered but dead Granny Sally then that is fraud , equally if someone moved States and re-registered but voted in the 1st State , that too is fraud.

I would not at all be surprised if there was a handful of examples of both of those. but it will be a handful at most , not the thousands needed to change a result and equally importantly not exclusively for one side or the other.

Also, the above could happen but be caught by the count process checks and balances.

So again , nothing to support any of this stuff changing a result , anywhere.

Tchaikovsky

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I love that Trump is still tweeting the same nonsense as if it will make any difference to him being beaten

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1325778096151203843?s=19

and as if he had anything to do with any vaccine.

DeanAustin

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I'm curious which of Obama's claims are you referring to specifically? There may well be some examples, just can't think of them off hand.

I'm sure people who argue that Obama's Presidency was a success would point to the fact that he reduced unemployment from around a high of 10% down to 4.7%.

In fact, Obama himself hailed the drop in unemployment:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/05/barack-obama-hails-economic-successes-unemployment-rate-drops-american-jobs

namloc1980

Just saw the list of names on Biden's coronavirus task force. No family members or unqualified people on it. Weird!

Carfacemandog

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

...A clean election with a clear winner would have, but that is not what happened.

And we just had a clean election. You just didn't like the result so you're proving David frumms point from a few years back that you would rather just abandon democracy instead.

I guess the GOP shouldn't have shut down all of those multiple bills to protect election and fund their security that democrats have been putting forward for years, while Trump supporters chuckled along thinking less protections in elections would benefit them.............. Oh well, too late now!

paw patrol

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Investigate what though?

There has been absolutely Zero evidence put forward as to how or why any of the things they are talking about would impact the results.

Basically they seem have 3 main angles.

Late Arriving Ballots in PA are "illegal" - They aren't (yet), multiple courts have said they are fine thus far . But more importantly , Counted or not Counted , they do not change the result. Biden is already ahead by 45k+ votes with them not yet included.

So , it's a possibly valid argument to have in terms of PA Electoral law for future elections. It is absolutely not a reason to hold up the Transition of Power to the new administration.


"Dead People" Voted (Mostly in Nevada it would seem ) - Again , absolutely zero evidence here. Yes , there are dead people still on the Electoral Register , but that does not mean that a vote was cast in their name and it certainly doesn't mean that the requisite 10,00 plus votes needed to change the Nevada result are all dead people.

"Out of State" people voted (again , seemingly Nevada) - This seems to be based on the fact that a large number of people moved out of Nevada due to the lay-offs in the Hotel/Casino business. That may be true , but for those votes to be illegal they would have to show that those people registered to vote somewhere else. Not living in the state does not make their vote illegal (Trump voting in Florida anyone?). Again - Are their 10,000 people that left Nevada during the shut-down and that re-registered to vote somewhere else??

For the last two - It's all about the evidence and so far there has been absolutely none put forward. The few pathetic affidavits etc. that they have brought forward in the 10 cases that they've had already show that they have absolutely nothing.

I won't even dignify the "burning ballots" and "Truck loads of fake ballots" tripe with analysis.

there are a lot more accusation that what you listed - listing those 3 is a bit disingenuous as it's not the complete argument not even close.



as a special interest case we should mention that former heavy weight champion joe frazier voted for biden and he died in 2018.


I have seen enough to know there are holes in the election process whether it's material or not - that's for the court to decide not the media so best wait.


You state there is no evidence yet dismay the affidavits form eyewitnesses as pathetic? I don't get this...they've made an accusation and unlike some twitter hate allegation they actually put their names to it and are standing over it. That is of significance.



It's funny how some posters on this thread (not you tbf) will slag off trump over challenging a fair election yet champion the cause of any hard done -by challenger to some dictator they don't like on another thread. funny that. orange man bad and all that good stuff.

ohnonotgmail

namloc1980 wrote: »

Just saw the list of names on Biden's coronavirus task force. No family members or unqualified people on it. Weird!

The world has gone very strange and we just have to learn to live with it.

briany

Meanwhile,

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca-gop-ballot-drop-boxes/

ohnonotgmail

paw patrol wrote: »

there are a lot more accusation that what you listed - listing those 3 is a bit disingenuous as it's not the complete argument not even close.



as a special interest case we should mention that former heavy weight champion joe frazier voted for biden and he died in 2018.


I have seen enough to know there are holes in the election process whether it's material or not - that's for the court to decide not the media so best wait.


You state there is no evidence yet dismay the affidavits form eyewitnesses as pathetic? I don't get this...they've made an accusation and unlike some twitter hate allegation they actually put their names to it and are standing over it. That is of significance.



It's funny how some posters on this thread (not you tbf) will slag off trump over challenging a fair election yet champion the cause of any hard done -by challenger to some dictator they don't like on another thread. funny that. orange man bad and all that good stuff.

The two affidavits are hearsay and nothing more. They are certainly not any basis to overturn the result.

Movementarian

paw patrol wrote: »

there are a lot more accusation that what you listed - listing those 3 is a bit disingenuous as it's not the complete argument not even close.



as a special interest case we should mention that former heavy weight champion joe frazier voted for biden and he died in 2018.


I have seen enough to know there are holes in the election process whether it's material or not - that's for the court to decide not the media so best wait.


You state there is no evidence yet dismay the affidavits form eyewitnesses as pathetic? I don't get this...they've made an accusation and unlike some twitter hate allegation they actually put their names to it and are standing over it. That is of significance.



It's funny how some posters on this thread (not you tbf) will slag off trump over challenging a fair election yet champion the cause of any hard done -by challenger to some dictator they don't like on another thread. funny that. orange man bad and all that good stuff.

You are just quoting Guiliani on the Joe Frazier thing, that has not been proven firstly. Secondly as Guiliani said, Frazier was registered Republican.

And lastly and the most damning, even if it was the case, theres no way to know how a vote was cast at this stage. Only that it was cast, which hasnt been proven. So the fact that you or others claim it was for Biden is not true and therefore makes it even more unlikely.

The Raging Bile Duct

briany wrote: »

Meanwhile,

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca-gop-ballot-drop-boxes/

But that doesn't count because that helped Trump...

cnocbui

In a beautiful addition to the well deserved perfect storm of karmic payback for president boof-head, the US stock market just surged 1,500 points on opening (+5%) due to vaccine result hopes.

Movementarian

briany wrote: »

Meanwhile,

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ca-gop-ballot-drop-boxes/

You are new to this so I'll explain. Its only the filthy lib dems who rig stuff not honest republicans. Theres no fraud in red states only blue states.

I mean sure the Dems lost key senate races and house seats so I mean like they are obviously not that good at rigging things. And sure the race is so close in many states and not a landslide. And sure yeah republican controlled legislatures and states like Georgia and Arizona are still showing Biden ahead but like these FACTS don't prove anything!

WrenBoy

cnocbui wrote: »

In a beautiful addition to the well deserved perfect storm of karmic payback for president boof-head, the US stock market just surged 1,500 points on opening (+5%) due the vaccine result hopes.

Another improvement in the stock markets under the Trump presidency you say ?

MeMen2_MoRi_

The only thing I'm seeing that's disingenuous is the cases being put forward for mass voter fraud that can impact a presidential election..

Everything else is small stuff, single digit maybe getting double digits like it did in Texas, sixty odd cases of fraud CAUGHT by the checks and balances that is built into the election system to find wrong doing.

cnocbui

namloc1980 wrote: »

Just saw the list of names on Biden's coronavirus task force. No family members or unqualified people on it. Weird!

Are you sure that's allowed?

Movementarian

cnocbui wrote: »

In a beautiful addition to the well deserved perfect storm of karmic payback for president boof-head, the US stock market just surged 1,500 points on opening (+5%) due to vaccine result hopes.

Fair play to Biden, I mean he only set up his taskforce and they have a vaccine already. Just shows what a real president can do.

Ps, I know I am trolling the Trumpers but of Trump can take credit for inheriting Obamas economy then hey...fair game

robinph

I think there is bigger problem with anyone knowing who someone who happened to be called "Joe Frazier" voted for and the principal of elections being anonymous, than with someone with the same name as someone famous having voted.

If the republicans know how someone voted then that absolutely needs to be investigated and people jailed.

nacho libre

Wibbs wrote: »

What is really the takeaway from things like this is how spin is spun and who's doing the spinning and that usually only comes out decades later, if it comes out at all. Now personally I consider trump to be a dangerously divisive muppet of the highest calibre in the highest post of a dangerously divided land, but to many Americans who saw their paychecks and jobs and investments rise during his tenure they may see things differently. Clearly 70 million of them did to some degree and that support base and all that came and comes with it hasn't gone away.

This is an often overlooked point. As an example say you have been a person out of work in a deprived area of America, who has previously voted Democrat, but now under Trump you suddenly have a job in a newly established factory in your town. We can of course argue that it was not Donald that lay the groundwork for this development to occur, but the worker won't care, he identifies Donald as bringing employment to his town.
This worker might even think Donald is not a very pleasant individual, but will likely give Donald his vote regardless.

There is one telling line in the new Borat movie that also explains why some people might vote for Donald, it is when Borat asks his hosts: Which is more dangerous the Democrat are the Virus?

It might be that some people are voting for Trump not because they particularly like him, but rather they vote for him because of what they perceive Democrats to be ; a threat to their way of life.

ChikiChiki

namloc1980 wrote: »

Just saw the list of names on Biden's coronavirus task force. No family members or unqualified people on it. Weird!

Refreshing to see. I would think Dr Fauci is relieved.

Billy Mays

It's sad to see Trumper's still clinging on to Daddy's claim that the election was stolen without a single shred of evidence.

Have you ever just taken a time out, looked at everything that's happened over the last 4 years and thought to yourselves "hmmm, maybe Donnie has been full of sh!t this whole time"?

Non solum non ambulabit

WrenBoy wrote: »

Another improvement in the stock markets under the Trump presidency you say ?

It is...but the timing is delicious:D

PropJoe10

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Refreshing to see. I would think Dr Fauci is relieved.

I'd say Fauci is the world's most relieved man, to no longer have to deal with an idiot.